Is it me or players are going back to classic era now en masse?

[Kralljin]

Iam not saying nobody liked it. If i wrote it that way, my apologies. But it showed that it wasnt the main appeal for the majority past level 30 and with the avability of level spots and dungeon farming.

Just seems splitting hairs, frankly.

Making the argument that retail is only a race to max level and classic is about the journey kinda moot.

In Retail, leveling is designed to be over quickly, whereas in Classic it wasn't, it was a specific design goal to take longer.

How the players interacted with it, is a different story.

And I dont disagree that IE and Warfronts make me probably a member of the minority, but its still content. And Classic doesnt even has such content for minoritys

I can only reiterate that it comes across that you are arguing in bad faith.

Classic in itself has less content, of course, the entire feature of Classic is that it's the original, without any additions from subsequent expansions, it's just that when you detail every piece of content that is being added, that value is extremely subjective.

First, there is the individual, which has varying interest(s).
Sure, i can sell Retail to them by saying that they have more BG's...but if they're not interested in PvP, then that value drops to 0.

Second, if that content has a generally negative reception...then what's the point?
At least in Classic one can say that there's a fanbase around its design, i somehow doubt one can fill an entire server with Warfront and Island expedition enthusiasts.

It's like comparing a general store to a store that sells only specific stuff, of course the general store will have a greater variety of goods available, but if you want something specific, you may want to check out a specific store.

[ArenaDk]

Just seems splitting hairs, frankly.

In Retail, leveling is designed to be over quickly, whereas in Classic it wasn't, it was a specific design goal to take longer.

How the players interacted with it, is a different story.

I can only reiterate that it comes across that you are arguing in bad faith.

Classic in itself has less content, of course, the entire feature of Classic is that it's the original, without any additions from subsequent expansions, it's just that when you detail every piece of content that is being added, that value is extremely subjective.

First, there is the individual, which has varying interest(s).
Sure, i can sell Retail to them by saying that they have more BG's...but if they're not interested in PvP, then that value drops to 0.

Second, if that content has a generally negative reception...then what's the point?
At least in Classic one can say that there's a fanbase around its design, i somehow doubt one can fill an entire server with Warfront and Island expedition enthusiasts.

It's like comparing a general store to a store that sells only specific stuff, of course the general store will have a greater variety of goods available, but if you want something specific, you may want to check out a specific store.

But the point was whats besides raiding, wasnt it?

So if someone doesnt like raiding. Classic ends here. While Retail atleast gives hundreds of possibilitys. Thats literally all there is to say when we are objectivly

[Kralljin]

But the point was whats besides raiding, wasnt it?

So if someone doesnt like raiding. Classic ends here. While Retail atleast gives hundreds of possibilitys. Thats literally all there is to say when we are objectivly

Considering Leveling takes up a lot of time, that seems reasonable avenue.

This in itself however also detract from the fact that what the content Retail isn't to someone's liking, simply because there is a lot of it, doesn't mean it's compelling to a person.

[MoanaLisa]

It's you. It's amusing to see how many people imagine that everyone either plays one or the other exclusively. Most of the people I know or talk with do a bit of both.

[GratsDing45]

The irony.
How to complete feed into what I literally just said.

"Afterall, they only have all the data available to them to determine whether it's a success / failure."
You calling it a success literally doesn't matter one bit.

How to completely undermine my main point.

Classic was a success... That is why they made TBC Classic and WOTLK Classic. Even making a Season of Mastery (which wasn't a success). Nobody needs data to see that... it's commonsense. You think they would even make SoM if Classic wasn't a success and was a failure? And yes me saying it is a success matters, because it means not everyone likes the same things you do. I'll say it again, not everyone likes the bloat of retail, stressful raid and mythic dungeon mechanics, the new animations, the lore, all the mounts, transmog, etc etc... Classic and Retail are seperate things with seperate teams. Blizzard has a team and community devoted to just Classic. So people enjoying that game and the devs working on the game won't hurt retail. It actually makes it better. Talent trees coming back is just one example. Exploration being a focus is another.


Even if it wasn't a success and WOTLK Classic has servers with 100's of people playing and raiding Ulduar for nothing beacuse they hate themselves and are playing the wrong game in your eyes... Why does that bother you? Dragonflight is doing pretty good isn't it?

[ArenaDk]

Considering Leveling takes up a lot of time, that seems reasonable avenue.

This in itself however also detract from the fact that what the content Retail isn't to someone's liking, simply because there is a lot of it, doesn't mean it's compelling to a person.

I give up. every time classic player will point at retail and screaming under tear that its only raid logging. And when the ball is thrown back at them they go :

Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling

This is been going for two decades now. Life in your world. Everyone saw with classic servers how bad leveling past 30 was, everyone saw how piss easy the raids were including naxx, everyone saw how lifeless grandmarshal.

Be my guest still trying to hold to your delusions but if you cant be honest towards classic atleast not try to compare it to retail if you cant write anything but:

Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling

[GratsDing45]

I give up. every time classic player will point at retail and screaming under tear that its only raid logging. And when the ball is thrown back at them they go :

Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling

This is been going for two decades now. Life in your world. Everyone saw with classic servers how bad leveling past 30 was, everyone saw how piss easy the raids were including naxx, everyone saw how lifeless grandmarshal.

Be my guest still trying to hold to your delusions but if you cant be honest towards classic atleast not try to compare it to retail if you cant write anything but:

Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling

I love leveling in WoW. more than raiding, pvp and mythics. It feels like a journey, item upgrades matter and I can go my own pace since I’m more of a solo mmo player.
Leveling is great in classic. Leveling in retail feels bad 1-60. I hope this doesn’t offend you

[Kralljin]

I give up. every time classic player will point at retail and screaming under tear that its only raid logging. And when the ball is thrown back at them they go :

So?

Again, you either argue in bad faith or are completely unable to see what those people are telling you: They don't enjoy any other content besides raiding.

If you apply your own logic, no one is ever allowed to complain about the lack of content in WoW unless they are a completionists that has everything cleared, collected and is a Rank 1 PvP'er on top of that.

Like mate, you pulled content such as Torghast, Island expeditions and freaking Warfronts out of the bag.
I wouldn't show this content to a new player because it would likely make them less interested in WoW, considering how bad these game modes are.

everyone saw how piss easy the raids were including naxx, everyone saw how lifeless grandmarshal.

That discussion never was how easy Classic raiding was, nor what sort of commitment you had to bring in order to get R14.

Be my guest still trying to hold to your delusions but if you cant be honest towards classic atleast not try to compare it to retail if you cant write anything but:

At this point, i simply get the impression you're a Retail player that somehow wandered in the Classic section of this forum and is surprised that people
1. Don't like Retail.
2. Like Classic.

And this seems to drive you nuts.

[salate]

after all cycles of classic (som included) I cant force myself to play classic

[Dalinos]

I give up. every time classic player will point at retail and screaming under tear that its only raid logging. And when the ball is thrown back at them they go :

Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling

This is been going for two decades now. Life in your world. Everyone saw with classic servers how bad leveling past 30 was, everyone saw how piss easy the raids were including naxx, everyone saw how lifeless grandmarshal.

Be my guest still trying to hold to your delusions but if you cant be honest towards classic atleast not try to compare it to retail if you cant write anything but:

Leveling
Leveling
Leveling
Leveling

The best part of all is those same people who scream "LEVELLING IN CLASSIC IS BEST" are the same ones who pay for Mage boosts in Scarlet Monastery, Zul Farrak and Maraudon so they can get to max level ASAP while being AFK at the instance portal. To the extent where Blizzard had to nerf Mage AOE boosting by changing how mobs work. It's insane.

[GratsDing45]

The best part of all is those same people who scream "LEVELLING IN CLASSIC IS BEST" are the same ones who pay for Mage boosts in Scarlet Monastery, Zul Farrak and Maraudon so they can get to max level ASAP while being AFK at the instance portal. To the extent where Blizzard had to nerf Mage AOE boosting by changing how mobs work. It's insane.

Leveling in classic is the best. I have never done a mage boost in my life.

The logic, generalization while grasping at straws in this thread is amazing.

Some people really don’t want people playing classic.

[Khaza-R]

The best part of all is those same people who scream "LEVELLING IN CLASSIC IS BEST" are the same ones who pay for Mage boosts in Scarlet Monastery, Zul Farrak and Maraudon so they can get to max level ASAP while being AFK at the instance portal. To the extent where Blizzard had to nerf Mage AOE boosting by changing how mobs work. It's insane.

I sincerely doubt they are the same group of people. You'll find people in retail who hate or love leveling as well. Its just a preference not universally held by the playerbase.

But even at that, I lot of people in Classic like the feeling of progression in leveling. Even if they don't like questing. And for some people I can't blame them. Vanilla wasn't balanced around solo leveling. Experience varies greatly between a hunter and a priest having to wand everything to death.

[Dalinos]

Leveling in classic is the best. I have never done a mage boost in my life.

The logic, generalization while grasping at straws in this thread is amazing.

Some people really don’t want people playing classic.

Hey, I'm just pointing out the laughable irony. I played Classic too, if only to clear Naxx cause in 2004/2005 I only got up to 12/15. I also leveled myself, never bought a mage boost...but guess what. Everyone else and their grandmothers under the sun were boosting with mages.

[Recovery]

There's no en masse. It's some of the SoM people that have no interest in LK and with SoM closing down they go to classic era.
Agree that Cata doesn't make much sense as it's just a worse version of retail (thanks to the no bullshit systems in DF). Hell from the next phase forward not even LK is that much different from retail, it even nearly has M+. But if there are people interested in re-doing Cata for whatever reason, good for them, they will likely receive it.

I've still yet to see a valid reason for people's hate toward Cataclysm. I think its one of those "nickelback" things. Designer hate.

[Osmeric]

I've still yet to see a valid reason for people's hate toward Cataclysm. I think its one of those "nickelback" things. Designer hate.

In Wrath, it appeared the designers had realized catering to the average, casual player was a good idea.

In Cataclysm, they took that back. That made those casual players angry.

We now know they did this because it's inscribed in their deepest design principles to favor the hardcores over the average player. They can't do otherwise, even when they tell themselves they should.

Cataclysm was the first burst of hatred that reached full flower in Shadowlands.

[Recovery]

"Is it me or players are going back to classic era now en masse?"

It's just you. No one is "going back" to classic era.

Players may be shifting over from SOM, but i doubt there is a substantial amount of players flooding in from either wotlk or retail.

- - - Updated - - -

In Wrath, it appeared the designers had realized catering to the average, casual player was a good idea.

In Cataclysm, they took that back. That made those casual players angry.

We now know they did this because it's inscribed in their deepest design principles to favor the hardcores over the average player. They can't do otherwise, even when they tell themselves they should.

Cataclysm was the first burst of hatred that reached full flower in Shadowlands.

wth about cataclysm wasn't casual? The early dungeon difficulty? The fact that people couldn't steam roll heroic dungeons on fresh 85s? I hate to be the one to tell everyone who forgot because the expansion (specifically last big content patch) lasted so long, but noone ( by none, i mean the people who were complaining about it in cataclysm) was doing that in early wotlk either.

If cata dropped tomorrow in its original release form, people would shit all over those dungeons because the average player is a number as long as pie times better now than the average player was in 2010.

Also, the contradictions of classic lovers are boundless. Most of these people talk about being "hardcore" but complain that cata isnt casual enough. Like, what? These are the same people using every possible consumable and collecting every possible buff in the game just to make MC a bit faster.

As I said earlier, its designer hate. Someone at some point decided it was cool to hate cata and the followers in the world joined in.

The best reason of hate for cata that ive seen is the world revamp and even that is stupid. Like who cares what the world design is.. I can count on 1 hand how many people i see in the world during the progression of an expansion (after the initial leveling spree).

Off topic: The hate for shadowlands, I completely understand. No one WANTS to play a game that is FORCING them to play it. That was certainly a major issue. No one wants to play a game that takes away their choice. These were all very sane and valid reasons to hate an expansion.

[Khaza-R]

wth about cataclysm wasn't casual? The early dungeon difficulty? The fact that people couldn't steam roll heroic dungeons on fresh 85s? I hate to be the one to tell everyone who forgot because the expansion (specifically last big content patch) lasted so long, but noone ( by none, i mean the people who were complaining about it in cataclysm) was doing that in early wotlk either.

If cata dropped tomorrow in its original release form, people would shit all over those dungeons because the average player is a number as long as pie times better now than the average player was in 2010.

Also, the contradictions of classic lovers are boundless. Most of these people talk about being "hardcore" but complain that cata isnt casual enough. Like, what? These are the same people using every possible consumable and collecting every possible buff in the game just to make MC a bit faster.

As I said earlier, its designer hate. Someone at some point decided it was cool to hate cata and the followers in the world joined in.

The best reason of hate for cata that ive seen is the world revamp and even that is stupid. Like who cares what the world design is.. I can count on 1 hand how many people i see in the world during the progression of an expansion (after the initial leveling spree).

You asked why people hated Cataclysm. He gave you a valid answer. The shift to hardcore heroics was not well received by the community as one can see in the massive backlash it had on the forums.

The devs basically completely changed their tune by the end of the expansion and nerfed heroics to where CC was rarely even necessary. This in turn also pissed off the people who liked harder heroics and failed to bring back the casuals who left earlier in the expansion. So in essence, the devs managed to piss off everyone with heroic balancing in Cata. This is why they moved to easy heroics in MoP and had CMs for people who wanted a challenge.

But to be clear, most people didn't hate Cataclysm upfront. I would argue it wasn't really hated at all, just more regarded as a disappointment how it played out. It was a very hyped expansion in the beginning. Raiders enjoyed it up to Dragon Soul. Then it ruined even their good will towards the expansion and left a lot of players with a sour taste in their mouth.

[Mafic]

I've still yet to see a valid reason for people's hate toward Cataclysm. I think its one of those "nickelback" things. Designer hate.

The talent tree changes in Cata that forced you go down a tree first was really bad. Like it killed the old talent system which forced them to come up with a new more flexible talent system in MoP supposedly.

But as we have seen with the current talent system of DF they went back to the old talent system which allows you flexibility and you do NOT have to go all the way down the tree and pick up cap stones.

And that is perfectly 100% okay if we think about the spirit of the original talent tree and how the game worked up to WotLk before Cata. Cata was an attempt to streamline and force players into cookie cutter metas. In reality it should be a players choice if they want to follow a cookie cutter meta like other hardcore players. Which is why Cata is considered on rails not only in terms of questing, content but also taking away player choice.

[Osmeric]

wth about cataclysm wasn't casual?

The difficulty increase, both 5 mans and raids. Understand that even WotLK raids were too difficult for the median player. Now imagine you were one of those players, and suddenly the devs went and told you, in effect, "you suck so bad we don't want to design a game for you."

Do you think those players were going to be HAPPY?

- - - Updated - - -

You asked why people hated Cataclysm. He gave you a valid answer. The shift to hardcore heroics was not well received by the community as one can see in the massive backlash it had on the forums.

And by how the devs so rapidly reduced the difficulty, at least some. The internal stats must have been horrific.

It didn't help, of course. The problem wasn't just the difficulty, it was the dev attitude that difficulty revealed.

[kranur]

I've still yet to see a valid reason for people's hate toward Cataclysm. I think its one of those "nickelback" things. Designer hate.

No it's not. Objectively the expansion had less content because of the world remake that was irrelevant for most people.
Outside of that, what is the point of playing that over retail? It's just a worse version of it with nothing really to it unlike vanilla or tbc.