Tennessee Republicans Vote to Make Drag Shows Felonies

[Malkiah]

Just to be clear, you're using "can" in the absolute sense of it "can" be made illegal, but then brought to court and likely ruled unconstitutional?

i mean "can" as in... they can do that. there's nothing stopping them.
i don't buy for a second that the current supreme court would overturn such a state law, so there's nothing in the mechanism of society in the US right now to prevent such an action.

so i guess, i'm using "can" as in "it is logistically possible within the current social climate to do this and get away with it"

[tehdang]

Oh great, now I have this image in my head of you having several Drag Queens locked in your basement.

To get back on point; all this brouhaha about Drag Shows is dumb. Any adult oriented Drag Shows would probably be child-free in the first place. Not all Drag Shows are men dancing in just underwear, those types are adult oriented and most likely restricted as such. All ages Drag Shows would feature the person fully clothed, only in clothes deemed feminine.

It's likely more "do something, anything" from concerned parents than anything else, talking specifically about the Tennessee example.

In fact, The Tennessean notes that other Republicans have defended the law by saying it won't affect many of the drag shows that may take place in the state.

Compare with: "A Drag Queen Christmas" touring with acts like "Screwdolph the Red-Nippled Reindeer" and dance simulations of anal sex etc, marketed as "family friendly" or "all ages" drag show. (I leave it to the reader's Internet search skills if they want to confirm that video showcases (among other things) dancers wearing furry underwear, prosthetic breasts). The results were the group restricting attendance to 18+ (Austin, TX and DFW as examples), and an investigation into violations of existing obscenity law (Florida). Both of which rather prove that existing laws are effective, albeit after the first performances.

[Elegiac]

Compare with: "A Drag Queen Christmas" touring with acts like "Screwdolph the Red-Nippled Reindeer" and dance simulations of anal sex etc, marketed as "family friendly" or "all ages" drag show.

"All ages" and "family friendly" do not mean the same thing, and A Drag Queen Christmas was never marketed as the latter. In fact, the show has always carried an adult content warning and has never allowed unaccompanied minors - meaning that it was fundamentally left up to parents to determine how appropriate the subject matter was for their children as is the case with most media featuring adult content. (Even if said adult content is about on par with a Madonna concert circa 1990)

For someone who insists that "parental choice" is something only liberals want to legislate against, you sure are carrying a lot of water for "concerned parents" who want the state to tell other parents how they should be raising their children. Maybe you should spend less time on right wing Youtube.

[Endus]

It's likely more "do something, anything" from concerned parents than anything else, talking specifically about the Tennessee example.

You misspelled the bold. That should be "transphobic sadists and abusers".

Compare with: "A Drag Queen Christmas" touring with acts like "Screwdolph the Red-Nippled Reindeer" and dance simulations of anal sex etc, marketed as "family friendly" or "all ages" drag show. (I leave it to the reader's Internet search skills if they want to confirm that video showcases (among other things) dancers wearing furry underwear, prosthetic breasts). The results were the group restricting attendance to 18+ (Austin, TX and DFW as examples), and an investigation into violations of existing obscenity law (Florida). Both of which rather prove that existing laws are effective, albeit after the first performances.

And how is this not on par with anything in R-rated films, which parents are fully entitled to take their kids to?

You could take your kids to see Eurotrip in theaters, which has tons of full-frontal male nudity, dong hanging everywhere, as well as a ton of topless women, tons of simulated sex acts (which aren't pantomime, and in the narrative, are intended to appear to be actual sex), and a visit to a BDSM club. But oh noes, fake breats and pantomimed sex activity. Which almost certainly is tamer than you can get from most music videos these days, which are all-ages.

Nobody complained people could take their kids to that. Because it isn't about that. It's about attacking anyone on the LGBT spectrum, and making them suffer, because these bigots get off on inflicting that suffering because they're hateful choad dickwits.

You can take your utterly insincere moralizing and stuff it.

[minteK917]

I think like always theres two problems in this fight. One obviously republicans arent dumb, they made these things nebulous enough to go after what they wanna go and the surface level wording of some of it would be agreeable by the average person. So you can easily accumulate stooges like tehdang. The flip coin of that is you have people going hard on the entire thing a lot, even the part worded that the average American would agree with, without the entire context.

I remember a similar thing with the kink at pride discourse a few years ago. Some right wing pundit was circulating a picture of a little girl, petting a half naked guy in dom kink dog gear on someones leash at an event. This was framed as kink at pride and, everyone came out of the wood work to defend the right for the child to pet man at a pride event. All the way down to, look kids are sexual too so they should be involved. OBVIOUSLY you win nobody with this kind defense. Turns out everyone was defending a lie. It was a leather fetish event (obviously as how sexual that place was). Not only were kids not allowed there, that specific family was asked and forced to leave the event.

Why mention that, because the drag discourse is playing the same way with those laws. You get two type of spectrum of the story here, we had a few example of Kids being in clearly adult drag scenario, putting money in gstring. Probably should be discouraged and we have dumb armless stuff like drag queen story time in a library. Both are getting put together, it doesent help that many people even in their defend against republican are defending both these things at once in public all the time. Thats the whole point of why republican mitch match all these situation into one. So that if you defend them all, YOU INSTANTLY LOSE.

Hell I got a Canadian example, so Endus might even know about this. The teacher with the giant fake breats with no bra and those giant nipples in plain sight. Guy was literally a right wing OP. The school and people wouldnt stop defending him, nobody tho of the actual answer.... mabye the teacher should be told to at least not often wear near transparent white clothing in a public school setting? Even if it was not a OP and a real trans women, youd tell the same thing to a cis women teacher or a male teacher wearing a fucking transparent shirt in class. Why was the discourse only about how degenerate the teacher was or how brave the teacher was? Hell the girls students going to that school would be getting suspension for being dressed like that lmao. But no, the entire discussion was degen vs how brave. IT WAS A RIGHT WING OP THE ENTIRE TIME.

the entire point is to make you be the unhinged one in public opinion to go after the real goal. NORMAL FUCKING TRANS PEOPLE THAT JUST WANNA LIVE THEIR FUCKING LIVES. They dont want to have kids put money in g-strings. They dont want to be petted by kids in full leather gear. They dont even want to play in professional women sport leagues at the top 0.001%, they just want to be left the fuck alone.

If you are a trans ally, its hard to navigate for sure. But remember that the way conservative work, you have to imagine yourself in a cartoon race against a looney toon. You want to reach the end goal, but this cartoon loser is gona throw random shit on your track to slow you down. Hes gona paint arrows on the floor going to wrong way to distract you, hell hes gona piss and shit on the track if he has to.

[Endus]

Hell I got a Canadian example, so Endus might even know about this. The teacher with the giant fake breats with no bra and those giant nipples in plain sight. Guy was literally a right wing OP. The school and people wouldnt stop defending him, nobody tho of the actual answer.... mabye the teacher should be told to at least not often wear near transparent white clothing in a public school setting? Even if it was not a OP and a real trans women, youd tell the same thing to a cis women teacher or a male teacher wearing a fucking transparent shirt in class. Why was the discourse only about how degenerate the teacher was or how brave the teacher was? Hell the girls students going to that school would be getting suspension for being dressed like that lmao. But no, the entire discussion was degen vs how brave. IT WAS A RIGHT WING OP THE ENTIRE TIME.

There's an update to the dress code coming soon (due March 1 I think) but yeah; the dress code'll cover the specific clothing that's professional wear, it almost certainly won't try and take a position against the prosthetics.

Though she's claiming now they aren't prosthetics; https://nypost.com/2023/02/19/canadi...they-are-real/

Like, I don't know what's going on with all this. Maybe they're trolling thinking that having giant breasts should get left-wingers to react negatively, but that's not happening. Maybe they're honest and just being used and abused by the (largely American) media. I don't think it matters. If she was wearing sheer clothes that were too revealing, the dress code should bar that, and it wouldn't have anything to do with her gender identity or whatever she's using or not using to deal with gender dysphoria. Nobody here in Canada cares about that bit. It's just absolutely not relevant.

And I've known some cisgender women who had enormous bosoms, too. Grow the fuck up, media. If you're reacting badly over that, the problem lies with you, not the woman you're essentially publicly ogling and mocking.

[minteK917]

There's an update to the dress code coming soon (due March 1 I think) but yeah; the dress code'll cover the specific clothing that's professional wear, it almost certainly won't try and take a position against the prosthetics.

Though she's claiming now they aren't prosthetics; https://nypost.com/2023/02/19/canadi...they-are-real/

Like, I don't know what's going on with all this. Maybe they're trolling thinking that having giant breasts should get left-wingers to react negatively, but that's not happening. Maybe they're honest and just being used and abused by the (largely American) media. I don't think it matters. If she was wearing sheer clothes that were too revealing, the dress code should bar that, and it wouldn't have anything to do with her gender identity or whatever she's using or not using to deal with gender dysphoria. Nobody here in Canada cares about that bit. It's just absolutely not relevant.

And I've known some cisgender women who had enormous bosoms, too. Grow the fuck up, media. If you're reacting badly over that, the problem lies with you, not the woman you're essentially publicly ogling and mocking.

I saw a recent one that outside of school they are just dressed like a normal guy and that it was kind of an OP. Maybe this is fake too. My point still is people need to stop entering the fucking conservative conversation with the opposite fucking take, which is often still dumb. There was a real answer here, and it was not wow what a brave transwoman teacher. It was.... why is she allowed partial nudity in her class room? Being trans doesent remove common decency to apply to someone. If a cis women or a men had shirts where all their nipples where visible in class. Im pretty sure they would be told its not appropriate? The fucking high school kids would get suspended for less. Like hello? When your only reaction to conservative propaganda is to brainlessly run the opposite direction as your answer, they control you as much as they control their voter base. They send you exactly where they know you are going, thats literally why they publish shit like this, often fake ones at that.

It comes down to like I said the same way they make these legislation. There is a grain there that is agreeable in the wording, thats on purpose. I know its extra work to actually explain why those bills should be opposed, because im mad at the people not doing that fucking work often (Not pointing to you endus, only named you for that ontario story figured youd have more info about it since its more local for you).

[postman1782]

ya, you keep saying that. that's like the 3rd or 4th time you've repeated that statement.

i'm asking you why (according to you) you can't ban one form and allow another.

because from where i'm standing, you absolutely CAN do that.

And it is still FUCKING TRUE.

[tehdang]

So you can easily accumulate stooges like tehdang.

I'm just seeing both sides of the argument here. Let's say you think additional laws are unnecessary, which I think broadly is the case. You still have to reckon with (1) shows occurred with minors present that marketed themselves as all-age or family-friendly, but contained inarguably age-inappropriate content (2) the action taken in their wake was only retrospective. I don't think more legislation is warranted, but I can't argue against parents that bring up the excesses and worry that not enough is being done for the protection of children in their state.

I remember a similar thing with the kink at pride discourse a few years ago. Some right wing pundit was circulating a picture of a little girl, petting a half naked guy in dom kink dog gear on someones leash at an event. This was framed as kink at pride and, everyone came out of the wood work to defend the right for the child to pet man at a pride event.

The teacher with the giant fake breats with no bra and those giant nipples in plain sight. Guy was literally a right wing OP. The school and people wouldnt stop defending him,

This is the vicious cycle, if you ask me. Reasonable lefties get sidelined, because even if they want to cast the pride/drag excesses as fringe, they then have to reckon with the left-wing groups and journos and internet rising to defend the activities. Maybe you've got a toe in both camps if you're so quick to label "stooges."

If you are a trans ally, its hard to navigate for sure. But remember that the way conservative work, you have to imagine yourself in a cartoon race against a looney toon. You want to reach the end goal, but this cartoon loser is gona throw random shit on your track to slow you down. Hes gona paint arrows on the floor going to wrong way to distract you, hell hes gona piss and shit on the track if he has to.

If this is the left-wing biased view of the situation, let me respond with a similar right-wing biased view. If you want freedom of expression for the drag scene and pride events, you have some trouble navigating. The way the left works, they're quick to label and double down. If you're reasonable, you're likely to be labeled a "stooge" or "literally want trans to die" or "homophobic." You have to imagine yourself in a cartoon race against a looney toon. You want to reach the end goal, but this cartoon loser is gonna throw random shit on your track to slow you down. Hes gona paint arrows on the floor going to wrong way to distract you, hell hes gona piss and shit on the track if he has to. But keep in it, hoping for a future de-escalation, and knowing they only partially mean the insults.

dress code

The best way through these sort of things is narrowly tailored stuff specifically to the situation.

[Endus]

I'm just seeing both sides of the argument here. Let's say you think additional laws are unnecessary, which I think broadly is the case. You still have to reckon with (1) shows occurred with minors present that marketed themselves as all-age or family-friendly, but contained inarguably age-inappropriate content

Whether that's appropriate should be up to their parents, not the government. Like it is with all other performances or media.

This is the vicious cycle, if you ask me. Reasonable lefties get sidelined, because even if they want to cast the pride/drag excesses as fringe, they then have to reckon with the left-wing groups and journos and internet rising to defend the activities. Maybe you've got a toe in both camps if you're so quick to label "stooges."

Those aren't "reasonable lefties". There's nothing wrong with drag shows, and the only people who claim otherwise are homophobic. Regular drag shows can be risque, but kids aren't attending those without parental accompaniment, and then whether it's "appropriate" is up to those parents. At Drag Reading Hours, it's all-ages and you'd have to be a homophobe to argue otherwise, which automatically means you're not a "reasonable leftist". All bigotry is inherently unreasonable.

If this is the left-wing biased view of the situation, let me respond with a similar right-wing biased view. If you want freedom of expression for the drag scene and pride events, you have some trouble navigating. The way the left works, they're quick to label and double down. If you're reasonable, you're likely to be labeled a "stooge" or "literally want trans to die" or "homophobic."

Because what you're trying to define as "reasonable" is openly homophobic. That's a problem with your use of "reasonable", not those pointing out the bigotry inherent to the position.

[Tentim]

There's an update to the dress code coming soon (due March 1 I think) but yeah; the dress code'll cover the specific clothing that's professional wear, it almost certainly won't try and take a position against the prosthetics.

Though she's claiming now they aren't prosthetics; https://nypost.com/2023/02/19/canadi...they-are-real/

Like, I don't know what's going on with all this. Maybe they're trolling thinking that having giant breasts should get left-wingers to react negatively, but that's not happening. Maybe they're honest and just being used and abused by the (largely American) media. I don't think it matters. If she was wearing sheer clothes that were too revealing, the dress code should bar that, and it wouldn't have anything to do with her gender identity or whatever she's using or not using to deal with gender dysphoria. Nobody here in Canada cares about that bit. It's just absolutely not relevant.

And I've known some cisgender women who had enormous bosoms, too. Grow the fuck up, media. If you're reacting badly over that, the problem lies with you, not the woman you're essentially publicly ogling and mocking.

They are reacting because anyone not so deeply entrenched in far left extremism understands the absurd joke being played out.

It's why the pendulum is swinging right and at a rapid pace.

Edit: Wanting children at drag shows is a sex thing not a gender thing...they get off on how taboo it is. If you take a step back and try to shake yourself free from ideology this stuff isn't even contentious.

[unfilteredJW]

They are reacting because so anyone not so deeply entrenched in far left extremism understands the absurd joke being played out.

It's why the pendulum is swinging right and at a rapid pace.

Edit: wanting children at drag shows is a sex thing not a gender then...they get off on how taboo it is. If you take a step back and try to shake yourself free from ideology this stuff isn't even contentious.

Mask fucking off.

At least you stopped being coy and went full bigot so we know how to treat your tales going forward.

[Xyonai]

Edit: wanting children at drag shows is a sex thing not a gender then...they get off on how taboo it is. If you take a step back and try to shake yourself free from ideology this stuff isn't even contentious.

And I can claim that anyone who posts shitty takes on an MMO forum gets off on being humiliated by all the people who dogpile them to make fun of their shitty arguments and opinions, but that doesn't make it true.

[zorkuus]

Ah yes, they're addressing the "important" issues again.
And soon we'll learn some of them have a George Santos secret.

[Endus]

They are reacting because so anyone not so deeply entrenched in far left extremism understands the absurd joke being played out.

There's nothing "far left extremist" about having a basic respect for people's identities. The only difference between your position and a Nazi lashing out at "socialists" for "defending the joke of zionist Jewish machinations", or a KKK member lashing out at "race traitors" for "the joke of an idea that the white race and blacks are the same kind at all, let alone the same species", is the specific group you're targeting for hateful abuse.

Your stance is precisely as hateful, wrong, and irrational as those others. For the same reasons. They are your ethical cousins.

Literally the same with trying to shut down Jew-friendly businesses in the Nazi Reich, or blasting at the "corruption of culture" that "black music" represented. Same bullshit, new victims.

It's why the pendulum is swinging right and at a rapid pace.

This is uniquely American, and there isn't really much of a "swing"; it's just that the bigots have gotten louder about it.

Look at one of the first Academy-Award-winning films; Wings. A film that concludes with a tender kiss between two men, and which presented all queer relationships in its runtime as loving and all heteronormative relationships as a mess. Then the Hays Code was put in place, by the same kind of shitheaded bigots that are whinging today. They never went away. They just shut up for a bit. Largely because they "won", via actions like the Hays Code. And now they're losing again, and they're whiny little bitches about it.

Edit: wanting children at drag shows is a sex thing not a gender then...they get off on how taboo it is. If you take a step back and try to shake yourself free from ideology this stuff isn't even contentious.

There's three types of drag shows, broadly speaking.

1> The super-raunchy nudity-displaying kind, which don't let kids in and never have. These aren't even particularly common, they're certainly not the standard. I mention them mostly so someone doesn't point to a particular show as if that proves a point.
2> The standard all-ages kind, which get about as risque as a music video, and which only allow minors with parental accompaniment.
3> Drag show reading hours, which are entirely directed at kids and are about as much of a "sex-thing" as your average Bugs Bunny cartoon from the '50s. Which, y'know, often celebrated drag.

And all the bitching is about #s 2 and 3. The ones that don't present any problems whatsoever. Except to bigots who want to target that community for abuse and harm. That's the entire argument. The "think of the children" bullshit is a smoke screen, as it always is.

[unfilteredJW]

Just remember folks: at the heart of every libertarian or faux enlightened centrist is a bigot to cowardly to accept the consequences of their bigoted takes.

[s_bushido]

They are reacting because so anyone not so deeply entrenched in far left extremism understands the absurd joke being played out.

It's why the pendulum is swinging right and at a rapid pace.

Edit: wanting children at drag shows is a sex thing not a gender then...they get off on how taboo it is. If you take a step back and try to shake yourself free from ideology this stuff isn't even contentious.

"Far left extremism" exists almost entirely in the heads of Republican propagandists in this country. It certainly has no power to actually accomplish anything. That's literally why this culture war horseshit is even a talking point. Because they have to manufacture an enemy...since Democrats are barely left of where they are (or at least where they were before they began openly cheerleading for fascism and an end to democracy).

And no, the pendulum isn't swinging right. The GOP got their fucking ass handed to it in these recent midterms as a direct reaction against this meaningless hateful garbage they're fixated on. To say nothing of them actually getting their way on abortion, an issue they're opposed on by the majority of the country, even in their own backyards.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Anyone who claims that an inherently sexual drag show is labeled as family friendly is being dishonest. This has not happened. Unless you view the mere act of cross dressing as inherently sexual in nature (It isn't) this has never been true.

Just remember folks: at the heart of every libertarian or faux enlightened centrist is a bigot to cowardly to accept the consequences of their bigoted takes.

Don't forget the part where most liberatarians make "Age is just a number, love is love" arguments when it comes to age of consent laws. That and most liberatarian enclaves turn into pedo rings.

[Gestopft]

Anyone who claims that an inherently sexual drag show is labeled as family friendly is being dishonest. This has not happened. Unless you view the mere act of cross dressing as inherently sexual in nature (It isn't) this has never been true.

Also, a reminder that the people complaining about drag show "sexuality" are often remarkably silent about cheerleaders at football games or the concept of Hooters.

[s_bushido]

Also, a reminder that the people complaining about drag show "sexuality" are often remarkably silent about cheerleaders at football games or the concept of Hooters.

You say that...and yet:

https://twitter.com/NickAdamsinUSA/s...91304817004545

Was honestly surprised that there'd be a topical tweet just a couple minutes old, since it's been months since I'd even thought about this weirdo.

I do also remember some kerfuffle about Hooters changing their costume/uniform. Something something "the woke Leftist mob doesn't want a company to be able to decide to make its employees show up in thongs!"