What needs to be done to make the trolls great again?

[Grazrug]

No, their biggest issue was that they destroyed themselves from within because their cultures were weak and stagnant. They could not keep up with the Arcane innovation of the elves and titanforged races and they had incompetent leaders and an ambitious and self-serving upper class that consistently sold the people to whoever could offer them enough power to upend the power structure (be it Hakkar, the Lich King, enslaving or killing their own loa)

Their current solution out of this predicament is for Talan'ji to get her kingdom under control by actually focusing on improving their standard of living instead of fantasizing about Jaina all the time.

Talanji will not reign for long if she keeps failing to kill Jaina. Also the Zandalari already have a high standard of living considering they can alway call to Akunda for rain whenever the crops don't grow fast enough. If she had an actual spine she would have had a fallout with the rest of the Horde that looks like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5bbvKQXS4s

[LemonDemonGirl]

Dazar was brought back by Zul and we got no status update on him after that so I just assumed he is still sitting in his chair in the dungeon.

Really wish they Blizzard did more with him instead of just leaving him a mummified grumpy old man.

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2. Darkspear helping gather the last of the drakkari, along with some frost trolls kicked out of Dwarven lands now that the dwarves are united and aiding them in resettling Zul'drak would be nice too. Zul'drak has amazing architecture, maybe have the Taunka join in as a lot of their villages have been wrecked by the Scourge. Having a 'Northrend' Horde branch of Tuskarr, Taunka, and Drakkari who all used to be enemies would be awesome, maybe even have a few Magnataur recruited with the Tuskarr bribing them with whale meat and the Drakkari letting them move into a new temple built in the ruins of Mamtoths.

Shouldn't there still be Ice Trolls underground/in caves somewhere?

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make serious troll characters and unify the tribes under Darkspear authority. Zuldazar is old, arrogant and indolent - and Darkspear just incorporated parts of Sandfury and Shatterspear. invite Amani, Gurubashi and maybe even Drakkari as equals to build a new Venice-like city turning southern Durotar and Echo Isles into a single great metropolis. world revamp, anyone?..

A Venice-like city? Sounds like fun. Imagine trolls in gondolas singing opera lol
Also, I'm sure at least SOME Sand Trolls are less insane with Mueh'zala in Bad Loa Jail.

[Nymrohd]

Really wish they Blizzard did more with him instead of just leaving him a mummified grumpy old man.

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Shouldn't there still be Ice Trolls underground/in caves somewhere?

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A Venice-like city? Sounds like fun. Imagine trolls in gondolas singing opera lol
Also, I'm sure at least SOME Sand Trolls are less insane with Mueh'zala in Bad Loa Jail.

Dazar sounds cool as hell. Talan'ji should have called to him as an advisor at the very least.
And it is a shame given how much they used from the RPG that they did not make Mt Mugamba a proper zone and place plenty of Frost Trolls there. Would have loved to see Harkoa again and she could have easily moved to Zandalar after the fall of the kingdom.

[Grazrug]

Dazar was a true king who had never known defeat. Unlike Talanji who orcestrated the doom of her own kingdom by alowing the Horde to paint a massive target on their backs.

[Nymrohd]

Dazar was a true king who had never known defeat. Unlike Talanji who orcestrated the doom of her own kingdom by alowing the Horde to paint a massive target on their backs.

And if Talanji had not brought some adventurer to fix shit, Zandalar would be part of the Black Empire and most trolls would be plague zombies.
But yeah, Dazar was cool. I said what I'd have done; have Zul resurrect him not to control him but because he actually wanted the best for the Trolls and Rastakhan was incompetent. No stupid G'huun plot (just have Hakkar in Uldir or maybe show why all the wind serpent Ancients are so evil by showing the dark side of Life). Then the difference between Zul and Talan'ji would be that Zul would be a troll supremacist while Talan'ji would see value in the other races and Blizzard could have Dazar choose to back her over Zul.

[Grazrug]

And if Talanji had not brought some adventurer to fix shit, Zandalar would be part of the Black Empire and most trolls would be plague zombies.
But yeah, Dazar was cool. I said what I'd have done; have Zul resurrect him not to control him but because he actually wanted the best for the Trolls and Rastakhan was incompetent. No stupid G'huun plot (just have Hakkar in Uldir or maybe show why all the wind serpent Ancients are so evil by showing the dark side of Life). Then the difference between Zul and Talan'ji would be that Zul would be a troll supremacist while Talan'ji would see value in the other races and Blizzard could have Dazar choose to back her over Zul.

His description is rad. Like without him the Zandalari nation would literally not exist at all. All of troll kind owes him much. The fate of being a degenerate G'huun worshipper is worse then death. Aka the blood trolls who still live in Nazmir.

[Nymrohd]

The fate of being a degenerate G'huun worshipper is worse then death. Aka the blood trolls who still live in Nazmir.

Which is what would have happened to the Zandalari if not for Talan'ji. They'd be dead, zombies or blood trolls.

[DatToffer]

First, the Zandalari need to rally the other tribes.

Second, they need to crush the people of the Alliance and the night elves who took their lands.

Third, they need to do all this without selling themselves to a dark deity.

Honestly it would be much more simple to go back in time and prevent the night elves from existing.

[Nymrohd]

First, the Zandalari need to rally the other tribes.

Second, they need to crush the people of the Alliance and the night elves who took their lands.

Third, they need to do all this without selling themselves to a dark deity.

Honestly it would be much more simple to go back in time and prevent the night elves from existing.

No living Zandalari remembers when the Night Elves took those lands from them. Irridentism is not a good idea.

[Grazrug]

No living Zandalari remembers when the Night Elves took those lands from them. Irridentism is not a good idea.

Considering Azshara is still alive and was never punished and those who lived back 10k years ago I am afraid the wounds are still fresh.

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First, the Zandalari need to rally the other tribes.

Second, they need to crush the people of the Alliance and the night elves who took their lands.

Third, they need to do all this without selling themselves to a dark deity.

Honestly it would be much more simple to go back in time and prevent the night elves from existing.

True the world would be a much better place if elves and humans nevr rose to power.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Third, they need to do all this without selling themselves to a dark deity.

...Does Bwonsamdi count as a 'Dark Deity'?

[Shadowferal]

Shouldn't there still be Ice Trolls underground/in caves somewhere?

In Zim'torga...I think this little lady might be of immense help:

Har'koa

[DatToffer]

No living Zandalari remembers when the Night Elves took those lands from them. Irridentism is not a good idea.

Well I don't know about the Zandalari specifically, but a huge part of the trolls identity since vanilla was their hatred and resentment for the races responsible for the downfall of their civilization. Hatred passed down through generations.

Although to be fair, the night elves lost so much themselves, there's not much to take back.

True the world would be a much better place if elves and humans nevr rose to power.

The First and Second War would have been a lot more savage if the orcs had met with a well established troll empire.

...Does Bwonsamdi count as a 'Dark Deity'?

I should have mentioned "Bloodthirsty" !

[Nymrohd]

Well I don't know about the Zandalari specifically, but a huge part of the trolls identity since vanilla was their hatred and resentment for the races responsible for the downfall of their civilization.

Which makes no sense. No living troll remembers the old empires. The orcs and humans hate each other because the Second War and the Internment Camps happened well within living memory. The night elves hold to ancient grudges because they are immortal and many of them have been alive for ten thousands years or more.
The racial hatred absolutely makes sense for the AMANI because they have remained at war with the high elves for most of WoW's modern history. For them the wounds are still fresh. But the rest of them just don't have anything similar. The Gurubashi went at war with the humans, they pushed them back and when they tried to overextent they were forced to withdraw. It wasn't even a proper war given how short it lasted.

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True the world would be a much better place if elves and humans nevr rose to power.

Elves are just another type of troll though . . .

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...Does Bwonsamdi count as a 'Dark Deity'?

Given he makes deals to be repaid by the souls of the people you kill, I'd say "Yes"

[DatToffer]

Which makes no sense. No living troll remembers the old empires. The orcs and humans hate each other because the Second War and the Internment Camps happened well within living memory. The night elves hold to ancient grudges because they are immortal and many of them have been alive for ten thousands years or more.
The racial hatred absolutely makes sense for the AMANI because they have remained at war with the high elves for most of WoW's modern history. For them the wounds are still fresh. But the rest of them just don't have anything similar. The Gurubashi went at war with the humans, they pushed them back and when they tried to overextent they were forced to withdraw. It wasn't even a proper war given how short it lasted.

Trolls like the gurubashi live in the ruins of their lost empire. Even if they don't remember it, they've got glimpses of it and probably enough stories to fantasize about how great it used to be. They also attempted an invasion of Stormwind as recently as Meidvh's lifetime if I'm not mistaken ?

Anyway what is so hard to believe about a people transmitting the stories of how their enemies are despicable ? Darkspear and Zandalari can live without these memories because they are safe and see a future. It's not the case of most troll tribes who need to remember who not to trust in order to survive.

The night elves may live long enough for millennia of grudge, but they don't have anyone to hate except for the demons and the highborne. And I believe they did their fair share of it.

[Combatbutler]

Which makes no sense. No living troll remembers the old empires. The orcs and humans hate each other because the Second War and the Internment Camps happened well within living memory. The night elves hold to ancient grudges because they are immortal and many of them have been alive for ten thousands years or more.

On that note, the vast majority of the night elf population did not live through the war of the ancients, almost every night elf old enough to remember the first legion invasion is dead. Their hatred of the highborne was passed down, if a conflict was bloody enough generational hatred is very much a thing.

[Nymrohd]

On that note, the vast majority of the night elf population did not live through the war of the ancients, almost every night elf old enough to remember the first legion invasion is dead. Their hatred of the highborne was passed down, if a conflict was bloody enough generational hatred is very much a thing.

To be honest, I have no idea how the population of an immortal race like the night elves would work so I am not sure how to argue here. I still think generational hatred should have some kind of limit when the timelines we are talking about are ten thousand years. For the night elves I don't think they hate the highbourne; they rather hate the Arcane. We even have instances where they helped the quel'dorei after all.

[Shadowferal]

Which makes no sense. No living troll remembers the old empires.

The Loa remember.

[Nymrohd]

The Loa remember.

And they don't seem to care.

[bloodmoth13]

Vol'jin should stay dead since he has served his purpose and didn't do anything useful for trolls as a race when he was still alive. Blizzard should instead focus on the other troll leaders like Urkoz Sandscalp, Resurrected King Dazar and whoever happened to replace Jindo and Zul'jin as leaders for Gurubashi and Amani. They are the future of troll kind.

Voljin did nothing, mop was his character build up, wod he was absent and in leg he was unceremoniously killed off by a nameless warlock pet. They have already created the story of his return in ardenweald is it's a matter of when not if and a matter of what he will come back as. By the looks of things he will become a loa and return as something of a spiritual figure.
I'd be happy with other figures being developed to lead the other tribes though, would be nice to see chieftains of drakkari, sandfury, Amani and gurubashi all get leaders developed and brought into the story. Give them all a moment of catharsis in their own way, something like ritual combat with each leader to resolve their problems watched over by loa would be sick. I'd hate to see them all just bend the knee, ritual combat would be far more thematic