[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Surfd]

That's why in France we have regulations to protect the theater industry and when a movie sells distribution rights to theaters then you have to wait at least 2 years before it can become accessible to streaming services or be broadcasted on public television.

2 Years seems a bit extreme. Like, my understanding of the North American industry is that they also have "theatre exclusive" release windows, but usually more along the lines of 2 to 4 months maybe. You aren't squeezing more money out of most movies on the big screen past the 4 month point unless your product turnover rate is so obscenely low that your industry as a whole is probably in trouble anyway at that point. Even most multi screen megaplexes in Canada are lucky to keep a movie past 2 months in a single run due to new product pushing things out. Maybe with the odd exception here and there of a major Blockbuster pushing 3 months, or something getting extended because it released a few months before the Oscars and then got nominated for a bunch of awards.

A 2 YEAR restriction window pretty much screams "squeezing blood from a stone" to me.

[JDL49]

What VFX needs isn't bitching about Marvel; it needs unions.

In order to be effective the unionizing would need to be world wide and that's unlikely.

[Biomega]

In order to be effective the unionizing would need to be world wide and that's unlikely.

Not necessarily. There's barriers to outsourcing overseas at a massive scale, or they would be doing it already. The idea that unions hurt competitiveness is a red herring - even if it was true (and a lot of the time it flat-out isn't), what does that actually translate to? "Sorry, but if we stopped exploiting people we'd make less money"? "Sorry, the only way we can make this business viable is by exploiting people"? Come on. If you can't build a non-exploitative business, then your business deserves to go under.

Perhaps higher VFX costs would make them focus on things other than spectacle visuals, too. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, in fact it could be a very good thing.

[exochaft]

Not necessarily. There's barriers to outsourcing overseas at a massive scale, or they would be doing it already. The idea that unions hurt competitiveness is a red herring - even if it was true (and a lot of the time it flat-out isn't), what does that actually translate to? "Sorry, but if we stopped exploiting people we'd make less money"? "Sorry, the only way we can make this business viable is by exploiting people"? Come on. If you can't build a non-exploitative business, then your business deserves to go under.

Perhaps higher VFX costs would make them focus on things other than spectacle visuals, too. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, in fact it could be a very good thing.

Depends on the region and union, as what the unions are capable of and their benefits/demerits vary just as widely. Unionization isn't automatically a good thing, but it's not automatically a bad thing either... just depends on the environment and the conditions at the time.

Since we're specifically talking about VFX studios, private unionization wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, especially since even their clients don't seem to care about them. While I know Endus was talking about how it's primarily the VFX companies are to blame (which is true), at this point Disney Marvel has no excuse to turn a blind eye to the situation. I know it's not really a shock that Disney speaks out of the sides of their mouth, spouting political/social rhetoric while behaving in a manor completely contrary to what they're spouting. If Disney really practiced what they preached, they'd be calling out this practice to where their sizable financial pressure could effect some changes. Ideally, you want the VFX companies to be the impetus of change, but this isn't an ideal world we live in. If the employers don't care about their worker conditions and the clients don't care either, that's when you get the resulting scenario of these VFX studios. At this point, the workers' last resort would be private unionization because there's waaaaaay too much bargaining power on the employer side.

Considering the state of the MCU right now and its recent activity, I wouldn't be surprised if the end result down the road is less budgets for VFX, regardless if the VFX industries unionize. Ideally, this would lead to less VFX overload and more focus on putting money where it's best used... but again, we're talking Disney Marvel here. It's equally likely they would not only reduce VFX prensence in their content but also conduct their VFX business offshore in cheaper regions. Part of the problem is that it's getting easier for non-specialists to do VFX work or even have AI do a lot of the legwork... granted it may not have the same quality as having talented VFX artists put a lot of work into the effects, but it's fairly obvious Disney Marvel is very willing to let quality slide in order to increase quantity. Again, it's not just that the VFX studios are acting like slave drivers, it's also Disney condoning such activity from their business partners by always throwing money their way.

While I also think we as paying customers of Disney content should also being proactive in this situation, the reality is that the extreme majority of people consume Disney content probably have no idea that this is going on... so it's not really feasible to expect the average person to realize this situation. However, Disney has zero excuse as they should have very intimate knowledge of the situation as the VFX studios since they actively talk about shifting VFX assets around because they know it's constant cruch time at these studios. However, Disney has no morality to stand on at this point and is enabling such behavior.

[JDL49]

That's why in France we have regulations to protect the theater industry and when a movie sells distribution rights to theaters then you have to wait at least 2 years before it can become accessible to streaming services or be broadcasted on public television.

But disney must be quite pissed with how this is affecting their streaming service cause none of the phase4 marvel movies that were in cinema have been added to disney + catalogue yet :/

Disney isn't pleased of course but that's nothing compared to the humilation of being downgraded to becoming a second class customer because of an ineffective, out-of-date, easily circumvented, protectionist law. Really kind of pitiful when you think about it.

[loras]

Disney isn't pleased of course but that's nothing compared to the humilation of being downgraded to becoming a second class customer because of an ineffective, out-of-date, easily circumvented, protectionist law. Really kind of pitiful when you think about it.

You talking about France or the US's intellectual property laws? It fits both rather well, yet the latter is much more responsible for the pitiful circumstances of western creative industries.

I mean France just annoys France and those directly affiliated, the US bothers the entire world with their retarded ideas.

[JDL49]

You talking about France or the US's intellectual property laws? It fits both rather well, yet the latter is much more responsible for the pitiful circumstances of western creative industries.

I mean France just annoys France and those directly affiliated, the US bothers the entire world with their retarded ideas.

I'll take the first "question"as mostly rhetorical but even so I am curious what you find egregious about the US's intellectual property laws. None come to mind but only something really bad would come without a bit of thought so there easily could be some that are problematical that I am overlooking.

Retarded ideas ? Expound on great sage !

[loras]

I'll take the first "question"as mostly rhetorical but even so I am curious what you find egregious about the US's intellectual property laws. None come to mind but since only something really bad would come without a lot of thought there easily could be some that are problematical that I am overlooking.

Retarded ideas ? Expound on great sage !

Well one could argue that the very concept of it is protectionist; trying to claim property over that which can neither be stolen nor really "protected" save by denying it to others.

But even if we let that rest there are the jokingly known "Mickey Mouse" laws which determine how long IP can be milked. It's known as such since it "ages" right ahead of Mickey Mouse's IP rights' expiry.

Which is of course a far greater influence of stagnancy than France could ever lay claim to.
And you would just need to take a look at the US's conflicts with China to get a sense of how far they're willing to go to force the rest of the world to play along to their bullshit tune.

It also fits your parts of being "ineffective, out-of-date, easily circumvented" in addition to the aforementioned protectionist tendencies to it, i mean it's trivial to access pretty much any sort of "protected" content with internet access, and the whole idea of IP rights hearkens back to the days of the first mass produced physical copies of text. It's so ancient it makes boomers seem like babies (come think of it, not even that).

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

His lawyer released a text message exchange which they say exonerate him, but it's a hilariously bad look. In it, the victim is apologizing to Majors for her ending up in the hospital. It looks like some fairly typical battered woman syndrome stuff, but at the same time confirms he assaulted her. You can read the text exchange here. The article draws similar conclusions that I do, but you can ignore it and read the text message itself if you want to just read that. I don't think it helps his case at all, it's like classic abuser stuff.

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I read the texts from another source...the whole "I told them it was my fault" is a pretty classic example of "battered woman syndrome". The article you linked does caution against jumping to conclusions though. It doesn't look great for Majors.. but it isn't a smoking gun either.

If Majors' defense team really does have video evidence that actually exonerates him...they should really be pushing to get that out...because these texts don't do it.

[JDL49]

Well one could argue that the very concept of it is protectionist; trying to claim property over that which can neither be stolen nor really "protected" save by denying it to others.

But even if we let that rest there are the jokingly known "Mickey Mouse" laws which determine how long IP can be milked. It's known as such since it "ages" right ahead of Mickey Mouse's IP rights' expiry.

Which is of course a far greater influence of stagnancy than France could ever lay claim to.
And you would just need to take a look at the US's conflicts with China to get a sense of how far they're willing to go to force the rest of the world to play along to their bullshit tune.

It also fits your parts of being "ineffective, out-of-date, easily circumvented" in addition to the aforementioned protectionist tendencies to it, i mean it's trivial to access pretty much any sort of "protected" content with internet access, and the whole idea of IP rights hearkens back to the days of the first mass produced physical copies of text. It's so ancient it makes boomers seem like babies (come think of it, not even that).

We'll stop here for a moment. The "Mickey Mouse" laws which you are referring to are the same ones that protect Michelin. Tradename and Trademark (c.f. the Michelin Man image). That's a swing and a miss. Still your turn.

My point about the French laws was that they don't work as well as they used to. The world changed and the laws did not. For example take 50 years ago and you have a Monster Film come out and you decide in the warm afterglow to do a sequel. It would not hit theaters before the holding period ran out on the first one, so no problemo. That no longer holds.

[Dystemper]

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I read the texts from another source...the whole "I told them it was my fault" is a pretty classic example of "battered woman syndrome". The article you linked does caution against jumping to conclusions though. It doesn't look great for Majors.. but it isn't a smoking gun either.

If Majors' defense team really does have video evidence that actually exonerates him...they should really be pushing to get that out...because these texts don't do it.

He should have fired that lawyer, those texts hurt him. It has been over a week , I don't think the video is coming out because it won't clear him.

[loras]

We'll stop here for a moment. The "Mickey Mouse" laws which you are referring to are the same ones that protect Michelin. Tradename and Trademark (c.f. the Michelin Man image). That's a swing and a miss. Still your turn.

My point about the French laws was that they don't work as well as they used to. The world changed and the laws did not. For example take 50 years ago and you have a Monster Film come out and you decide in the warm afterglow to do a sequel. It would not hit theaters before the holding period ran out on the first one, so no problemo. That no longer holds.

...How again would that in any way be good? It's just the Michelin man, who cares if it's protected.
That law is still an abomination of justice, a perversion of its original function and has a ruinous effect on diplomacy (as one might expect when one tries to corrupt a concept as straightforward as "theft" into rambling about ideas that IP entails).

And that point you present on the french is no less valid for the IP laws of the US; decades ago it might have arguably encouraged creativity.
The current rather desolate landscape in entertainment barring a few giants with mostly uninteresting produce and some rabble beneath their feet revelling in mediocre sameness is a rather good illustration of how poorly that system is doing. That woke bullshit and its countermovement the US is currently dealing with? Neither could have ever existed in a healthily functioning creative environment / market.

[Biomega]

...How again would that in any way be good? It's just the Michelin man, who cares if it's protected.

The people who invested effort, time, and money into making that icon into the representation of a brand, and would be upset if other people profited off of their investment and/or piggybacked on their brand identity in positive or negative ways?

I'm not saying IP laws are perfect, not by a long shot, but there are very good reasons for them to exist, too.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

He should have fired that lawyer, those texts hurt him. It has been over a week , I don't think the video is coming out because it won't clear him.

They didn't hurt him... they just didn't help him much on a social level. On a criminal charges level... those texts actually do help him. The prosecution has a much harder case if the victim isn't cooperating with them.

As far as the supposed video goes...there may be reasons why, if it exists, it hasn't been released to the public yet. It would be a very odd claim for a lawyer to specify they have video that exonerates Majors if there is no video. If it were a bluff, one would think they would go with a more general "we have evidence that exonerates our client and we will reveal it soon." If there is no video...than yes, he should definitely fire that lawyer.

[Fabinas]

....... it's fairly obvious Disney Marvel is very willing to let quality slide in order to increase quantity.

I'd change that "is" to "was". They DID DO what you're saying, but after the Quantumania failure to meet expectations, things are changing fast. Let offs, movie and show delays (or even cutoffs).

I;m not advocating for Disney, but what you say definitely did happen in the past. Whether it will continue, due to the recent changes, it's something we will see.

[MrLachyG]

I'd change that "is" to "was". They DID DO what you're saying, but after the Quantumania failure to meet expectations, things are changing fast. Let offs, movie and show delays (or even cutoffs).

I;m not advocating for Disney, but what you say definitely did happen in the past. Whether it will continue, due to the recent changes, it's something we will see.

I mean the fact that The Marvels got delayed is a sign of that. They're either doing reshoots or redoing the VFX work at a more relaxed pace.

[Svifnymr]

They didn't hurt him... they just didn't help him much on a social level. On a criminal charges level... those texts actually do help him. The prosecution has a much harder case if the victim isn't cooperating with them.

As far as the supposed video goes...there may be reasons why, if it exists, it hasn't been released to the public yet. It would be a very odd claim for a lawyer to specify they have video that exonerates Majors if there is no video. If it were a bluff, one would think they would go with a more general "we have evidence that exonerates our client and we will reveal it soon." If there is no video...than yes, he should definitely fire that lawyer.

I assume they might be trying to get the actual video from the cab and it might take some time (though, hollywood money should make it go faster), but the main thing there is if they've actually viewed the video itself or just "know" that he's innocent and "know" there is video of it.The story he told his lawyers might or might not match up to what the video actually shows, or appears to show (depending on angles and stuff).

[Dystemper]

I assume they might be trying to get the actual video from the cab and it might take some time (though, hollywood money should make it go faster), but the main thing there is if they've actually viewed the video itself or just "know" that he's innocent and "know" there is video of it.The story he told his lawyers might or might not match up to what the video actually shows, or appears to show (depending on angles and stuff).

This was in a article , his lawyer seems to have a a not do great record.

"Chaudhry’s past clients include Real Housewives of Salt Lake City’s Jen Shah, who was sentenced to prison this year for a telemarketing scheme, and Canadian screenwriter, director, and film producer Paul Haggis—who was found liable on three counts of rape and sexual abuse in a civil trial last year.

According to a Deadline courtroom report, Chaudhry characterized Haggis’ accuser as “a troubled and emotionally immature young woman who had sex with an older, famous man and mistakenly thought it was the beginning of something more, and recast it as a rape in revenge for being rejected.”"

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

This was in a article , his lawyer seems to have a a not do great record.

"Chaudhry’s past clients include Real Housewives of Salt Lake City’s Jen Shah, who was sentenced to prison this year for a telemarketing scheme, and Canadian screenwriter, director, and film producer Paul Haggis—who was found liable on three counts of rape and sexual abuse in a civil trial last year.

According to a Deadline courtroom report, Chaudhry characterized Haggis’ accuser as “a troubled and emotionally immature young woman who had sex with an older, famous man and mistakenly thought it was the beginning of something more, and recast it as a rape in revenge for being rejected.”"

I don't know anything at all about this lawyer... but I don't think 2 cases provide enough information to establish of any kind of record.

[JDL49]

...How again would that in any way be good? It's just the Michelin man, who cares if it's protected.
That law is still an abomination of justice, a perversion of its original function and has a ruinous effect on diplomacy (as one might expect when one tries to corrupt a concept as straightforward as "theft" into rambling about ideas that IP entails).

And that point you present on the french is no less valid for the IP laws of the US; decades ago it might have arguably encouraged creativity.

Trademarks and names protect againt fraud. Pretty simple really.