New spec type could increase chances for future 4th specs?

[i3ackero]

Augmentation, currently labeled just as "Damage", I think this role may end up with specific 4th role specification. Role "Damage" is the closest so far as it will cover Damage slot in Dungeon Finder + his goal is to achieve team's higher damage dealt output, but gameplaywise it seems more similar to Healer role.

If this concept will be successful and popular, then there will be a need to add more specs of this role, even if it won't be mandatory. Then being locked only to one class (and race) won't be enough for a longer timeframe. That's why I think that 4th spec thing that people like to speculate are now more possible then ever. Previously I wasn't fan of it as "third damage" or giving tank for everybody who don't have it would make class fantasy less unique (which is happening a bit due to race restrictions changes) and dilute them even more. Currently I may welcome this idea if potential 4th specs would be this new "Offensive Support" role. As a shaman main I think I could welcome 4th earth-themed spec as such support more then a tank.

What do you think about it? Which classes could receive such a role. How much we would need them? Surely less then any other, but I think future could give us more then just Augmentation.

[Nymrohd]

Very much agreed. I'm putting new specs for multiple classes in my Bingo card for the next expansion for sure.

[Triceron]

A new subcategory may not be necessary. We could look at this as the differences between DPS playstyles, like a Melee DPS vs Ranged DPS, or a Summoner vs a DoT spec vs a high Burst spec.

As far as damage dealt goes, I think damage meter creators will need to parse out the buff damage and wdd it back to the Evoker who provides them. Their 'DPS' would be the full potential they bring from their own abilities and the buffs they provide, and performance may be situational like how some classes have better AoE and Burst than others. I can see them having better damage output over long periods of time where the support buffs can be spread out and maintained, while it isn't as great in situations that require a lot of quick burst.

Their overall role wouldn't be changed. Same with how Disc is wildly different from other healers and contributes a little DPS, a little damage prevention and a little buffing, but is otherwise still a Healer.

[anon5123]

The word you're looking for is "Support".

RIFT had Support specs and they were kinda meh. You did mediocre healing and mediocre DPS and were mainly there to buff allies and debuff enemies. It was okay in concept but nobody really liked playing them. But they were still required because of all the buffs/debuffs.

[Thirtyrock]

A new subcategory may not be necessary. We could look at this as the differences between DPS playstyles, like a Melee DPS vs Ranged DPS, or a Summoner vs a DoT spec vs a high Burst spec.

As far as damage dealt goes, I think damage meter creators will need to parse out the buff damage and wdd it back to the Evoker who provides them. Their 'DPS' would be the full potential they bring from their own abilities and the buffs they provide, and performance may be situational like how some classes have better AoE and Burst than others. I can see them having better damage output over long periods of time where the support buffs can be spread out and maintained, while it isn't as great in situations that require a lot of quick burst.

Their overall role wouldn't be changed. Same with how Disc is wildly different from other healers and contributes a little DPS, a little damage prevention and a little buffing, but is otherwise still a Healer.

As long as the damage is a straight %damage added to the other party members, this works pretty well. If it's increased primary stat, this works pretty well. Both of those could be parsed easily as "this ability would have done 10 damage but had a 10% damage buff so it did 11 damage so the added damage is 1"

On the other end, you have crit, which would be the hardest to parse out. Expected crits vs actual crits is easy in theory, but how do you adjust for good/bad rng? If it's 10% extra crit on top of 20% crit, and the window allows 100 hits. You should see 20.2 crits. So if there's 21 crits, is that because they were lucky or because of the buff? If there's 19, would it have been 18 without? That gets to be very difficult to parse, I think. Obviously it should balance out over the course of an encounter/dungeon, but it's still hard to parse.

Haste is somewhere in between. You could see a situation where 10% haste should add 1 extra cast in a window that normally allows 10 casts. But that's all things considered. If there's movement in that window how do you tell if an extra cast was added or not? What if the window allows 9 casts but the haste adds enough that there's an extra cast that gets off afterwards? Again, this will average out over long encounters/runs, but it's not straight forward.

Mastery is easy for some classes and hard for others. Versatility should be pretty straight forward, since it's straight +damage done/-damage taken.

It's an extremely interesting experiment, both for gameplay consequences and for future development directions. I'm really excited to see how it plays out. I'm tempted to try it myself and I never thought I'd say that about evokers. Blizzard has really been impressing me with DF. I've been drawn into a lot of activities and tempted by classes I never thought I would be.

[Urti]

I'm not going to hold my breath for any new specs on existing classes. If anything they will retool existing specs into support roles, probably the least played and/or most annoying specs to balance.

[Goat7]

It feels like we play two different games.

They already have a hard time as it is with balancing the specs / classes the game currently has. Not to mention creating anything new for the classes / specs. No way in hell they add MORE.

If anything, I could see everything converting into a hero class and only having 2 specs, i.e Warrior: Blademaster / Gladiator or what Demon Hunter is right now.

[LionSinMaikeru]

Hopefully! There is a lot of design room for a 4th spec for each class. I don't think we need any pure DPS classes - the game has evolved beyond that point.

The word you're looking for is "Support".

RIFT had Support specs and they were kinda meh. You did mediocre healing and mediocre DPS and were mainly there to buff allies and debuff enemies. It was okay in concept but nobody really liked playing them. But they were still required because of all the buffs/debuffs.

I don't agree with that at all. I loved Support specs in Rift. I played them quite often.

- - - Updated - - -

It feels like we play two different games.

They already have a hard time as it is with balancing the specs / classes the game currently has. Not to mention creating anything new for the classes / specs. No way in hell they add MORE.

.

To be fair, if we waited for them to balance the game before they added new things - they wouldn't have gotten past Vanilla patch 1.0.

The game has never been balanced in any capacity and I'd rather have more content than hold out for perfectly balanced content.

[Aleksej89]

I would much rather have 4th specs on classes than a whole new class.

More tank & healer specs would be so awesome, especially on the pure DPS classes who feel shafted by long queue timers unless you guild.

[anon5123]

More tank & healer specs would be so awesome, especially on the pure DPS classes who feel shafted by long queue timers unless you guild.

There are six tank specs in the game, and still a tank shortage. The problem is not a lack of specs, the problem is people don't want the responsibility / pressure of being the "leader" of the group.

[Jujudrood]

I'm not sure I see a 4th spec working its way into a lot of classes, but if this works out well, I could see them altering some existing specs to be more support-oriented.
Which ones, no idea, but you gotta think they would look at the least played/represented ones as good candidates, as well as ones that have always been a struggle to balance.
Like, I don't want another world where we have to bring the shaman because totems or anything; that was never fun to have a bad class with a good buff.
But, if they add/change some things with a few others to the support-like gameplay theme, all while maintaining "acceptable" levels of damage output, it would bring in a bit of choice and maybe even encourage more people to play otherwise abandoned specs.

It really just depends how this one plays out because, if it turns into totem bitch all over again... gross.

[gd8]

I was saying this back when it was still speculation, this will definitely open up the door for more support specs as well as a bard-style class(es) and will make it easier for blizz to add 4th specs to every class. Support will probably be made into its own role when this happens

[Aleksej89]

There are six tank specs in the game, and still a tank shortage. The problem is not a lack of specs, the problem is people don't want the responsibility / pressure of being the "leader" of the group.

No clue why you are quoting me, what i said is that extra tank/heal specs on pure dps specs will help.

I like playing rogue and hunter but i definitely do not want to wait 20+ minutes for a queue, and dont want to join a guild or make social circles on those chars.

[Thirtyrock]

There are six tank specs in the game, and still a tank shortage. The problem is not a lack of specs, the problem is people don't want the responsibility / pressure of being the "leader" of the group.

One million percent true. I used to be a tank or die player, though now I'm primarily DPSing on a DH and stepping in to tank raids as we have need. Learning M+ routes well enough to know what to skip, especially when the route varies depending on Tyr/Fort is one of the big reasons I don't often tank M+, even though I love tanking raids still, when the opportunity presents itself. I would jump at a permanent tank slot on our raid team, but I am hesitant about stepping into the dungeon finder as a tank. It's just so much less stress to queue as a dps.

- - - Updated - - -

No clue why you are quoting me, what i said is that extra tank/heal specs on pure dps specs will help.

I like playing rogue and hunter but i definitely do not want to wait 20+ minutes for a queue, and dont want to join a guild or make social circles on those chars.

So you're saying you would queue as a tank if you had a tank spec on your rogue? If that's what you're saying, I think you're the exception, rather than the rule. I don't think tons of existing rogues/mages/warlocks/hunters would suddenly be queueing up as DPS/Tank if that was available on their class. I think you'd see players who already like tanking or healing shifting to those classes depending on playstyle and strengths/weaknesses in that role.

I could be wrong, but that's my suspicion.

[Aleksej89]

.

I really dont care what other people would or wouldn't.
I like tanking but a lot of currently available tank specs are boring for me - either gameplay mechanics or general theme.

Having a shaman, rogue, warlock and hunter tank spec would be great for my queue times, while also allowing me to continue playing the DPS specs i like when its convenient.

[Thirtyrock]

I really dont care what other people would or wouldn't.
I like tanking but a lot of currently available tank specs are boring for me - either gameplay mechanics or general theme.

Having a shaman, rogue, warlock and hunter tank spec would be great for my queue times, while also allowing me to continue playing the DPS specs i like when its convenient.

I was just asking for clarification purposes. The reason what other people would or wouldn't do is relevant because if you're the only person in the audience, it's not worth the effort. It sucks for you, but that's the calculus blizzard has to consider.

If you don't like any of the other tank specs then I suggest the issue is you don't like tanking, so I doubt this would actually affect your queue times because you still wouldn't queue as a tank. There's a great deal of variety among the 6 tank specs and how they each play. Even if it WOULD get you and similar players, who are frustrated with the queue times, to tank/heal more often, I don't think that would be sustainable. Players who don't enjoy roles tend not to play as well as players who do enjoy those roles. Having a lot of people who prefer to dps on their insert class here, who chose that class because they like dpsing on that class, but who steps in to tank to lower their queue times...That's just not going to go well for their groups, in most cases.

I have a tank spec and often queue as DPS because I don't like tanking M+ with randoms, so maybe I'm projecting.

Edit -

I think adding a completely different TYPE of spec, support types, would generate more interest for these classes (not that they're suffering from lack of interest)

[shimerra]

To be fair, if we waited for them to balance the game before they added new things - they wouldn't have gotten past Vanilla patch 1.0.

The game has never been balanced in any capacity and I'd rather have more content than hold out for perfectly balanced content.

While true that does exactly nothing to make all the weird cries for people's personal pet spec ideas are a good idea/worth the investment.

I'd rather that effort making content be put into actual gameplay and instances. Not forcing weird 4th, 5th, and 6th specs people seem to think we desperately need but really it's just so they can touch themselves because their fanfic can be replicated in game on classes and specs that already do a pretty good job fleshing out the fantasy.

I'm not gonna lie. I was a sucker for DH hoping but never expecting it to happen. As much as I give people shit/make fun of tinkers I'd much rather see that than these ideas. And honestly I can't even really give an honest opinion. The OP basically gave us nothing to really go on as to what one of these specs could really look like.

It's such a weakly fleshed out idea there's not much to say other than it really doesn't sound impressive without. They also tried the "offensive support role". Blizzard that is. All you need to do is look at TBC's "utility" dps like Shadowpriest and Enhance Shaman doing less damage in exchange for group buffs like Mana Regen and Windfury. Except this idea is worse because now there's an entire spec to balance and you either have to take utility from within the class specs to give the new one utility or come up with something compelling that also isn't provided by the other specs/makes up for the damage loss. I'd much rather see the utility spread throughout the existing specs than forcing it into some weird unfleshed out 4th spec. This idea also reeks of someone just wanting a bard class but instead of a single class we've got to tack on a watered down version for all of them.

[baskev]

Augmentation, currently labeled just as "Damage", I think this role may end up with specific 4th role specification. Role "Damage" is the closest so far as it will cover Damage slot in Dungeon Finder + his goal is to achieve team's higher damage dealt output, but gameplaywise it seems more similar to Healer role.

If this concept will be successful and popular, then there will be a need to add more specs of this role, even if it won't be mandatory. Then being locked only to one class (and race) won't be enough for a longer timeframe. That's why I think that 4th spec thing that people like to speculate are now more possible then ever. Previously I wasn't fan of it as "third damage" or giving tank for everybody who don't have it would make class fantasy less unique (which is happening a bit due to race restrictions changes) and dilute them even more. Currently I may welcome this idea if potential 4th specs would be this new "Offensive Support" role. As a shaman main I think I could welcome 4th earth-themed spec as such support more then a tank.

What do you think about it? Which classes could receive such a role. How much we would need them? Surely less then any other, but I think future could give us more then just Augmentation.

I do not think it will add a change for it.

But it does give a opening for new classes. But also it gives less options if to many classes have them. 10 buff classes and you run out of buffs pretty fast.

classses who will not get:
- Druid: already have 4. and most of them under perform half the time
- warlocks, rogues, mages, hunters: they can barely make all 3 of those function to be different enough. ( side note, mages and hunters could get 1 of their specs re rolled into this).
- warrior, can not see the theme for them.

Very unlikely classes:
- priest. 2 healers and 1 dps and 1 buff class. to much i think.

more likely:
- paladin
- monk
- shaman
- dk


most likely:
- DH....a 2 class, class . Who might need more classy movies.

[username993720]

I fear that a support spec is an indication of a Bard class whose dashing hairstyle and stylistic clothes are the source of its power.

[Triceron]

As long as the damage is a straight %damage added to the other party members, this works pretty well. If it's increased primary stat, this works pretty well. Both of those could be parsed easily as "this ability would have done 10 damage but had a 10% damage buff so it did 11 damage so the added damage is 1"

On the other end, you have crit, which would be the hardest to parse out. Expected crits vs actual crits is easy in theory, but how do you adjust for good/bad rng? If it's 10% extra crit on top of 20% crit, and the window allows 100 hits. You should see 20.2 crits. So if there's 21 crits, is that because they were lucky or because of the buff? If there's 19, would it have been 18 without? That gets to be very difficult to parse, I think. Obviously it should balance out over the course of an encounter/dungeon, but it's still hard to parse.

Haste is somewhere in between. You could see a situation where 10% haste should add 1 extra cast in a window that normally allows 10 casts. But that's all things considered. If there's movement in that window how do you tell if an extra cast was added or not? What if the window allows 9 casts but the haste adds enough that there's an extra cast that gets off afterwards? Again, this will average out over long encounters/runs, but it's not straight forward.

Mastery is easy for some classes and hard for others. Versatility should be pretty straight forward, since it's straight +damage done/-damage taken.

It's an extremely interesting experiment, both for gameplay consequences and for future development directions. I'm really excited to see how it plays out. I'm tempted to try it myself and I never thought I'd say that about evokers. Blizzard has really been impressing me with DF. I've been drawn into a lot of activities and tempted by classes I never thought I would be.

Not sure how damage meters would parse it out, it would have to estimate if it wanted to provide something bsck to the Evoker.

It could always just be lumped in to the player who receives the buff, like PI probably gets calculated to the player rather than the Priest. I guess it would be a case by case scenario