[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Ryzek]

So I finally hit Heavnsward content on my Paladin and decided to stop there to try out War and DK so I new what tank I was going to role at end game. Reason I stopped on my PLD was I wanted to use MSQ to level the rest of the way. I read so much about how great War was but around 42ish I just did not like it as much as I hoped and then jumped to DK. Holy shit I loved it. The attack animations, the skills, the class story, the fantasy of it all got to me. I've always love Paladins but in FFXIV I don't feel much as a Paladin as I did in other games Wow,RO, etc and that's why I ended up trying the other tanks. I'm glad I did because I really fell in love with DK. I don't know how viable it is at end game but I'm going to stick to it.

[Graeham]

I like the look of PLD armour and their swords/shields but I definitely agree that they don't really 'feel' like the classic heroes that they are in other RPG's. They're strongly tied to Ul'dah which is pretty much a corrupt cesspit and the class/job quests are rather weak when compared to what some of the others offer.

[Granyala]

The crafting minigame has a higher skill cap than the combat :S

Not at 60, because in crafting you are not pressured by timers.

I agree that the Limit breaks are rather pathetic though. I always chuckle when I hear the sound, look at the bosses HP bar and essentially nothing happens.

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"It" being, what he said in the part you quoted: "Have some off-GCD filler stuff". Which is exactly what happens. More for some jobs than others, but you're being misleading if you suggest that it doesn't.

He is right in the sense that FF-XIVs combat is slower paced than WoWs though. It's intentional design and after a while you won't notice it any longer.
When I go back to WoW now I find it stressful and taxing having to mash my keys so much. Brain just need some time to acclimate.

As for the "clunkyness": Animation locks and ridiculous UI delays (not latency, I typically have 30ish latency, same as I have in WoW) are a thing.
Maybe many people aren't sensitive enough to notice them, but when you played supersmooth WoW for 9 years, they stick out like a sore thumb.

[Faroth]

I like the look of PLD armour and their swords/shields but I definitely agree that they don't really 'feel' like the classic heroes that they are in other RPG's. They're strongly tied to Ul'dah which is pretty much a corrupt cesspit and the class/job quests are rather weak when compared to what some of the others offer.

In hindsight, it almost makes me wish DRK had been released first for Ul'dah, akin to Cecil's role serving the Kingdom of Baron, and PLD was released in Heavensward.

[Nurvus]

Not at 60, because in crafting you are not pressured by timers.

I don't think timer pressure is connected to skill in FFXIV.
If you want to beat a "DPS check"; assuming you know the encounter and your class, you just need the right gear and press buttons in the right order, all of which is determined before the fight begins, with pretty much no changes to your rotation "on the fly".

The RNG present in the crafting minigame challenges you in a way the current class design doesn't - forces you to adapt your "rotation" on the fly - because on top of having to deal with "failure", it also has you hunting and trying to set yourself up for those "Good" and "Excellent" procs.

With a combat system so cloned from WoW, it saddens me they left the best part of it out (imo) - the rotation-changing procs/mechanics.

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Having seen videos of FFXIV 1.0 combat ... it looks very very slow ... >.>

I'm not saying it was better, but at least it was SE's own combat system.
I expected SE to revamp it, but still make their own combat system.
Instead, they just dropped the ball (imo) and made a WoW-clone.

[Kazgrel]

I'm super confused now. If the info is still current, http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Jobs says for "Warrior" (is this a "job"?) you need to be level 30 MRD and level 15 Glad? The "super confused" part is how, does that mean I level MRD to 30 and then "switch" (lulwut?) to leveling GLD to 15 and I magically become a "Warrior"?

1. Level Marauder to 30
2. Go to Gladiator's guild in Ul'dah, pick up gladiator (this requires you to be in the level 15 range of the main story quests)
3. You "switch" to gladiator by setting up a gear set but using sword/shield instead of axe as your weapon (since classes/jobs are locked to their own weapons in this game)
4. Level Gladiator to 15
5. Go to Marauder's guild; you'll find a quest that unlocks Warrior there

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So I finally hit Heavnsward content on my Paladin and decided to stop there to try out War and DK so I new what tank I was going to role at end game. Reason I stopped on my PLD was I wanted to use MSQ to level the rest of the way. I read so much about how great War was but around 42ish I just did not like it as much as I hoped and then jumped to DK. Holy shit I loved it. The attack animations, the skills, the class story, the fantasy of it all got to me. I've always love Paladins but in FFXIV I don't feel much as a Paladin as I did in other games Wow,RO, etc and that's why I ended up trying the other tanks. I'm glad I did because I really fell in love with DK. I don't know how viable it is at end game but I'm going to stick to it.

Having all 3 tank classes at 55 thus far...the decision on which one to focus on gets a lot harder. Like you, I still think I'm leaning toward DRK, but all 3 tank classes start getting some really nice abilities past 50.

[alturic]

1. Level Marauder to 30
2. Go to Gladiator's guild in Ul'dah, pick up gladiator (this requires you to be in the level 15 range of the main story quests)
3. You "switch" to gladiator by setting up a gear set but using sword/shield instead of axe as your weapon (since classes/jobs are locked to their own weapons in this game)
4. Level Gladiator to 15
5. Go to Marauder's guild; you'll find a quest that unlocks Warrior there

Thanks for the reply. Sadly, I don't think I'm going to buy the game. I didn't know you were capped at 20 on the trial, ha. That's not the reason though, just the way the combat system plays seems very clunky and not smooth at all. I don't want to invest money and time just to "see" how it "feels" at end-game.

Outside of the combat system though, it's definitely a solid game.

[Kazgrel]

While I have the i200 relic weapon for my Dork, but I seriously doubt that I would give him a 210 relic.
Not until they nerf the crap out of that particular step.

Imho it's okay to have sth like relic as "main spec only".
Dork will have his 230 weapon in 2.5 weeks from Alexander. It'll have to do.

By 210, I'm referring to upgrading the 200 eso weapon to 210 via the farthing item from Void Ark.

I'm not messing with another anima weapon until I have crafting done, so that way I can make the items for the 210 step myself. If 3.1 is anything to go by, the 230 lore weapons will become a bit easier to obtain, so that's what I'll end up with also (whether it becomes easier or not).

[SodiumChloride]

I'm not saying it was better, but at least it was SE's own combat system.
I expected SE to revamp it, but still make their own combat system.
Instead, they just dropped the ball (imo) and made a WoW-clone.

Not really a "new for newness sake" kind of a person.

Having a combat system similar to WoW does have it's benefits, e.g. easy for people coming from WoW to pick up, easy raid balancing, ...

Unfortunately it comes with all the downsides of WoW's combat system, e.g. zero real customization ... , in addition to the fact that it's "old hat" for people who have been playing WoW since vanilla.

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Thanks for the reply. Sadly, I don't think I'm going to buy the game. I didn't know you were capped at 20 on the trial, ha. That's not the reason though, just the way the combat system plays seems very clunky and not smooth at all. I don't want to invest money and time just to "see" how it "feels" at end-game.

Outside of the combat system though, it's definitely a solid game.

If the combat system bugs you that much, oh well. Different folks, different strokes.

I personally can't stand WoW's writing and voice acting ... not playing it anymore. LOL

[alturic]

Not really a "new for newness sake" kind of a person.

Having a combat system similar to WoW does have it's benefits, e.g. easy for people coming from WoW to pick up, easy raid balancing, ...

Unfortunately it comes with all the downsides of WoW's combat system, e.g. zero real customization ... , in addition to the fact that it's "old hat" for people who have been playing WoW since vanilla.

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If the combat system bugs you that much, oh well. Different folks, different strokes.

I personally can't stand WoW's writing and voice acting ... not playing it anymore. LOL

Ahh, see that's why you can look past the combat system then. You're a story guy, I could care less about the stories and why this guy wants me to collect 5 bat wings, or collect this item, so I can use it on this guy to reveal their true level. It is actually funny you mention voice acting in WoW though, because I swear from 1-20 all (and god there seemed like 1 every 10 quest turn-in) of the cut-scenes had lips moving, with zero voice, ever in FF? The combat system here though is just way too slow and clunky. Sure, blame WoW for having smooth combat, I guess?

I really have zero idea what you mean about how ANY combat system has "customization". There's ALWAYS going to be one proper way in any combat system in MMORPGs. Perhaps you're not regerring to rotation, but meaning something else when you say "combat system"? The "combat system" itself is almost always "hit this guy until he dies, using this proper rotation" though?

[Granyala]

I don't think timer pressure is connected to skill in FFXIV.
If you want to beat a "DPS check"; assuming you know the encounter and your class, you just need the right gear and press buttons in the right order, all of which is determined before the fight begins, with pretty much no changes to your rotation "on the fly".

I can see that you never played a BLM on a bosfight.

Trust, me nothing is predertermined and being forced to move an an inconvenient time will cripple your DPS.
it's most certainly NOT "press buttons in designated order" Oo

The RNG in crafting doesn't challenge you at all. Because you can think about your action for as long as you want. Also, you can (if properly geared) eliminate a lot of RNGs impact by not relying on [hasty touch] so much.

And lastly, there is this very handy tool for "dry practice": http://ffxiv-beta.lokyst.net/#/simulator

[Sorrior]

Thanks for the reply. Sadly, I don't think I'm going to buy the game. I didn't know you were capped at 20 on the trial, ha. That's not the reason though, just the way the combat system plays seems very clunky and not smooth at all. I don't want to invest money and time just to "see" how it "feels" at end-game.

Outside of the combat system though, it's definitely a solid game.

That's too bad it really does get alot better. I suggest keeping an eye out for sales then. Maybe get it when cheaper. Minus Heavensward since that is not needed race aside till expansion time.

But this may also not be a game for you and that's ok. Sodium I will say seems to not like it very much or offers unrealistic stuff(like how wow has bag size limits hard coded abd has caused issues ffxiv has a few similar things they are trying to work around)

I would say try the rogue(found in limsa across from the fisherman's guild) before you go they are the fastest played class in game and even early on can feel faster

[Granyala]

I'm not messing with another anima weapon until I have crafting done, so that way I can make the items for the 210 step myself.

Yeah uh ... have fun with that one. I thought so too when I saw that they were no longer specialist restricted.

Since I have a i180 geared GSM, I did a porcellain mogry (ingredient for the Food one) just for kicks. Harder to HQ than you would think at first blush.
Most certainly I would not recommend to attempt that with the minimum stats. Doubt you would get past 75% HQ reliability and the NQ ones are worthless (can anything be done with them at all? I don't think so.). :X

Also mats on my server are just as expensive as the final product, so unless you can manage to farm everything yourself, not much gil can be saved.

[SodiumChloride]

Ahh, see that's why you can look past the combat system then. You're a story guy, I could care less about the stories and why this guy wants me to collect 5 bat wings, or collect this item, so I can use it on this guy to reveal their true level. It is actually funny you mention voice acting in WoW though, because I swear from 1-20 all (and god there seemed like 1 every 10 quest turn-in) of the cut-scenes had lips moving, with zero voice, ever in FF? The combat system here though is just way too slow and clunky. Sure, blame WoW for having smooth combat, I guess?

FF only has the MSQ cutscenes with voice acting. Hey, SE isn't made of money. :P

WoW's voice acting (and writing) is just cringe inducing.

I really have zero idea what you mean about how ANY combat system has "customization". There's ALWAYS going to be one proper way in any combat system in MMORPGs. Perhaps you're not regerring to rotation, but meaning something else when you say "combat system"? The "combat system" itself is almost always "hit this guy until he dies"?

Choice as to you how you want to "hit this guy until he dies".

e.g.

Look at Dark Souls.

Your choice of stats, armor, weapon, all matter.

Stats that control the Dark Souls equivalent of,

HP will determine how many mistakes you can make before dying.
TP will determine how much you can block, dodge and attack.
Then there is straight up attack power (stat will depend on weapon choice)

Some weapons are slow but hit like a truck - they have a higher wind up time. Some weapons have greater range. ... etc.

All armor and weapons also have a weight and there is a stat that determines how heavy you can get before you are afflicted with a slow dodge and movement speed.

Go watch some Dark Soul playthroughs, e.g.

[Sorrior]

Ahh, see that's why you can look past the combat system then. You're a story guy, I could care less about the stories and why this guy wants me to collect 5 bat wings, or collect this item, so I can use it on this guy to reveal their true level. It is actually funny you mention voice acting in WoW though, because I swear from 1-20 all (and god there seemed like 1 every 10 quest turn-in) of the cut-scenes had lips moving, with zero voice, ever in FF? The combat system here though is just way too slow and clunky. Sure, blame WoW for having smooth combat, I guess?

I really have zero idea what you mean about how ANY combat system has "customization". There's ALWAYS going to be one proper way in any combat system in MMORPGs. Perhaps you're not regerring to rotation, but meaning something else when you say "combat system"? The "combat system" itself is almost always "hit this guy until he dies, using this proper rotation" though?

And this game is VERY VERY story centric so it really may not be for you.

For instance while they have said they won't do it again to reach Heavensward(the expansion) you need to complete a massive series of quests all added in patches. Dungeons are locked behind story quests as are raids to a lesser degree.

For instance just because you are 50 does nor mean you can unlock the CT raids(24 man easy raid that is yes still run) you need to finish main story then do a quest chain(though they made it far easier after the first part and the Heavensward one even easier then those) similar for the hsrd raid. In Heavensward you NEED to do the main story to unlock all the dungeons thus easier to gear. Yes even the patch dungeons at 60 and raids? Yep main story up to the end of 2.0 must be done.

The combat DOES get alot faster(ninja can get to say 2.0 or under) buuut yeah it really may not be your game.

I will say this I love thay you gave it a fair shot abd are not bashing it loo

[alturic]

Look at Dark Souls.

Your choice of stats, armor, weapon, all matter.

Stats that control the Dark Souls equivalent of,

HP will determine how many mistakes you can make before dying.
TP will determine how much you can block, dodge and attack.
Then there is straight up attack power (stat will depend on weapon choice)

Some weapons are slow but hit like a truck - they have a higher wind up time. Some weapons have greater range. ... etc.

All armor and weapons also have a weight and there is a stat that determines how heavy you can get before you are afflicted with a slow dodge and movement speed.

So, really you are saying you want to be able to fine-tune all of these things, while at the end of the day there is still an optimal setup to achieve? If so, I mean I guess(?) I can see your point, the devs in other games just handle all that "best in slot" fine-tuning for you. :P

As an example, in DS you could stack (if you can do this ha) HP out the wazoo and criple your other stats, but you'll suck. In any other game where the devs have already "optmized" the stats for you, you can look strictly for piece with the most HP on them, but again you'll criple yourself. See what I'm trying to say or no?

[Sorrior]

FF only has the MSQ cutscenes with voice acting. Hey, SE isn't made of money. :P

WoW's voice acting (and writing) is just cringe inducing.



Choice as to you how you want to "hit this guy until he dies".

e.g.

Look at Dark Souls.

Your choice of stats, armor, weapon, all matter.

Stats that control the Dark Souls equivalent of,

HP will determine how many mistakes you can make before dying.
TP will determine how much you can block, dodge and attack.
Then there is straight up attack power (stat will depend on weapon choice)

Some weapons are slow but hit like a truck - they have a higher wind up time. Some weapons have greater range. ... etc.

All armor and weapons also have a weight and there is a stat that determines how heavy you can get before you are afflicted with a slow dodge and movement speed.

Go watch some Dark Soul playthroughs, e.g.

As someone who played dark souls and still does alot of that cannot feasibly be put into ffxiv without game engine changes.

[Kazgrel]

Yeah uh ... have fun with that one. I thought so too when I saw that they were no longer specialist restricted.

Since I have a i180 geared GSM, I did a porcellain mogry (ingredient for the Food one) just for kicks. Harder to HQ than you would think at first blush.
Most certainly I would not recommend to attempt that with the minimum stats. Doubt you would get past 75% HQ reliability and the NQ ones are worthless (can anything be done with them at all? I don't think so.). :X

Also mats on my server are just as expensive as the final product, so unless you can manage to farm everything yourself, not much gil can be saved.

Fear not, for that sort of stuff is long term goals, not something I'm trying to have done by this time next week. I have the only anima that really matters to me (BLM), and if I decide not to make another anima, no big deal, because I have the one I "need" most.

The price for that stuff on my server (the completed items, that is) is dirt cheap compared to most other servers; I could simply farm gil and sell stuff for a few days (1 week tops) and have enough to buy all the stuff I needed.

To elaborate on long term...I'll have worked my way up to whatever the new crafting gear is in 3.3 and melded it and whatnot before I'll bother. Yep, that's gonna be a massive time/gil sink, but it's something I want to do over time. I had every crafting profession maxed out in WoW and GW2, and I miss having that self-sufficiency here, especially since it has some useful perks (melding being the big one).

[Wrecktangle]

It would be neat if there were an MMO that really required a lot of engagement to level a character - but the prevailing design of most of them (that being that leveling is generally just a timesink and "the real game" starts at the end of it) makes it so that it wouldn't really make sense.

I'm no developer, but I agree with you. I find myself enjoying leveling in a majority of games more so than end game. It doesn't help that a majority of end-game content is vertical with very limited horizontal progression.

But then again I am that type of person that doesn't see the point of using "Diplomacy-kid gloves" all the time because somebody might get offended.
I prefer direct language and short, precise instructions.

As I said: what I typed was absolutely judgment free (read: no "lol", "nub" or any other slurs).
I saw an error in play and I gave instructions in the most compressed, easy to understand manner possible.

Do it all the time, but mostly it gets ignored. My suspicion is that the really bad players probably watch netflix on the side and just randomly press buttons while directing their attention away from the game. Which ofc includes not reading the party chat.

You guys keep saying I'm using diplomacy/kid gloves/PC bullshit. You're not getting what I am saying. This isn't about protecting some crybabies safe space lest he/she be triggered, this is about being a decent person. The sheer fact that you tell me that most of the time your advice gets ignored and I think I can count on one hand the times I've been told off/ignored is proof that my method is superior.

You'd be surprised how effective communication is when you treat people like people instead of writing a script for a robot.

I too prefer direct language with short, precise instructions. For my SQL scripts... For actually conversing with or helping someone? No thanks.

Come to think of it, it would be nice if you could help recover someone else's mistakes.

Interesting point. What exactly do you mean by this? How would it work? What exactly constitutes a mistake? Define an example inside FF14.

I can already think of a few, LB's, Swiftcast, etc. Outside of healing/tank though? How would a DPS help another DPS recover from a mistake? How about DPS -> Healer? DPS to Tank?

I really have zero idea what you mean about how ANY combat system has "customization". There's ALWAYS going to be one proper way in any combat system in MMORPGs. Perhaps you're not regerring to rotation, but meaning something else when you say "combat system"? The "combat system" itself is almost always "hit this guy until he dies, using this proper rotation" though?

To help illustrate the issue it helps to define combat system.

A combat system is the entire scope of moving, fighting (executing rotation), decision making (utility choice, positional awareness), and dealing with mechanics.

Talent choices are one facet of customization in WoW (note FF14 doesn't have any customization). While it is true that talents are "defined and mathed" as to which are best, this isn't always inherently true. Gameplay situations, ease of use, penalty for error varies wildly with certain talent selections and can easily push one ahead of another. In addition not all choices impact DPS, some are utility based (i.e. movement, defensives, group/raid buffs, etc.).

[Sorrior]

So, really you are saying you want to be able to fine-tune all of these things, while at the end of the day there is still an optimal setup to achieve? If so, I mean I guess(?) I can see your point, the devs in other games just handle all that "best in slot" fine-tuning for you. :P

As an example, in DS you could stack (if you can do this ha) HP out the wazoo and criple your other stats, but you'll suck. In any other game where the devs have already "optmized" the stats for you, you can look strictly for piece with the most HP on them, but again you'll criple yourself. See what I'm trying to say or no?

Oh you certainly can stack HP and in fact that is a very often recommended early strategy especially for now players.

But armor is not as important as he thinks in DSIII

It blocks some damage abd you can feel a difference but it is not as massive as you might tjink. Most armor sets are fairly well balanced and some early game ones can last you until or be worthwhile in ng+ which increases difficulty.

Their is a meta depending on pvp or pve but mostly on weapon choices and it still goes by skill more.


Armor also does not have any stats outside of defensive ones or weight. And alot involve tradeoffs so say you want good defense ok cool..but that high physical defense coukd leave you weak to bleed(a heavily used in pvp damage type that stacks until bam massive damage) same for poison. While the tangier armor honestly does not guarantee success due to guard break.

I go for medium armor with an ultra heavy weapon a heavy weapon and a regular short sword then I use a shield abd flame.

However this all puts me out of meta terrirory. I have a friend who plays meta he uses a lightning based axe to stun foes abd deal decent damage om his strength character.

Anyways point is the things he describes are not AS important as he seems to think.

Yeah you can customize yeah you can do wtf you want abd still win if skilled. But in the end of the day? They will only change your class as in fighting style from a swift striker or a mage to a battle mage or what have you.

Think kf it more like build your own class.