[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Deleted]

Gunblade were never confirmed as tanks though.



IIRC Amdapor was a city of White mages, so these are two light-bases entities.

They were not but there are 2 things pointing to a very likely possibility of them being 1.
1.) the leaks have mostly been correct so far and they list gunblader as a tank
2.) the game got 2 dps jobs last expansion and the game does need a healer and a tank to balance out the raid compositions

And like I said why shouldn't it be a tank?
Cant tank and healer players get new jobs too?

[Karamaru]

Gunblade were never confirmed as tanks though.

For all we know the Gunblade might be the new job out of the thief line, since Thancred is seen wielding one and he doesn't strike me as the tank type unless its get confirmed I will speculate.

Tanks and healers desperately need a 4th addition right now and most people who do high end content know that.
The situation we are in right now for tanks and healers is the following:
You start a new static raid group and the first things you say when it comes to tanks and heals are "ok we need a warrior and a scholar".
Why? Because nobody else fullfills the stuff they do. Dark knight fullfills the same role that a paladin does albeit differently. It just is not balanced particularly well right now. White mage fullfills the same role as an Astrologian right now but again differently.
We need a 2nd tank that brings similar stuff that the warrior does and a second healer who brings similar things that the scholar does to open up more party play combos.
As it stands right now there are close to none when it comes to serious end game.

However, Yoshida said of adding new healers and tanks that the problem was that DRK and AST were picked up primarily by players who were already healers or tanks.

If there had been a goal to get more people to play healer or tank who weren't already, then this experiment failed; whereas if their goal had been merely to increase the options for players who were already invested in those roles, this experiment succeeded.

As their goal was the former, not the latter, the issue seems to have made them more squeamish.

That the majority of players who are asking for new healers/tanks are actually healers/tanks, it seems that this result is not likely to change.

[Veluren]

They were not but there are 2 things pointing to a very likely possibility of them being 1.
1.) the leaks have mostly been correct so far and they list gunblader as a tank
2.) the game got 2 dps jobs last expansion and the game does need a healer and a tank to balance out the raid compositions

And like I said why shouldn't it be a tank?
Cant tank and healer players get new jobs too?

It's mostly that, much like what happened with the introduction of DRK, it will really make a pretty minimal dent in the actual population of tanks, it'll mostly just dilute the pool of existing tanks and DPS will probably try it for the fun of it, but won't seriously main it into endgame.

Not to mention that, again, DRK is getting a rework, likely to be one from the ground up since TP/MP are merging into one resource, I'd rather them focus on fixing the job's flaws before introducing a fourth tank and risking leaving either of them in a niche that's lacking identity or fun gameplay.

Soldier is an afterthought in that mentality entirely, really, but if they decide to go tank I'll still play it, I'm just expressing my own mindset why I'd also be okay if they're DPS.

[Karamaru]

It's mostly that, much like what happened with the introduction of DRK, it will really make a pretty minimal dent in the actual population of tanks, it'll mostly just dilute the pool of existing tanks and DPS will probably try it for the fun of it, but won't seriously main it into endgame.

Not to mention that, again, DRK is getting a rework, likely to be one from the ground up since TP/MP are merging into one resource, I'd rather them focus on fixing the job's flaws before introducing a fourth tank and risking leaving either of them in a niche that's lacking identity or fun gameplay.

Soldier is an afterthought in that mentality entirely, really, but if they decide to go tank I'll still play it, I'm just expressing my own mindset why I'd also be okay if they're DPS.

I agree with you on that my main job is now put on ice since my FC wants a Warrior instead so I really want them to fix it but with the Soldier I dont mind it being a tank for the sake of balance but I would prefer it as a dps job but time will tell what they will do.

[Rogalicus]

For all we know the Gunblade might be the new job out of the thief line, since Thancred is seen wielding one and he doesn't strike me as the tank type unless its get confirmed I will speculate.

AFAIR Alisaie rerolled from paladin to red mage, so it doesn't have to make sense.

[Karamaru]

AFAIR Alisaie rerolled from paladin to red mage, so it doesn't have to make sense.

that was for gameplay purposes since the red mage did not exist in ARR since she is also classified as a arcanist but doesn't use it like I said Thancred is a thief not a ninja wich strikes me as odd unless they confirm what its role really is I will speculate since the leak about the blue mage also didnt really pan out as it claimed I will remain skeptical.

[Deleted]

For all we know the Gunblade might be the new job out of the thief line, since Thancred is seen wielding one and he doesn't strike me as the tank type unless its get confirmed I will speculate.



However, Yoshida said of adding new healers and tanks that the problem was that DRK and AST were picked up primarily by players who were already healers or tanks.

If there had been a goal to get more people to play healer or tank who weren't already, then this experiment failed; whereas if their goal had been merely to increase the options for players who were already invested in those roles, this experiment succeeded.

As their goal was the former, not the latter, the issue seems to have made them more squeamish.

That the majority of players who are asking for new healers/tanks are actually healers/tanks, it seems that this result is not likely to change.

I understand that but I still hold one of my initial statements. Even if you dont increase the people playing tanks and healers (which will never increase because they are considered stressful jobs) dont tank and healer players deserve new jobs as well?

[leviathonlx]

I understand that but I still hold one of my initial statements. Even if you dont increase the people playing tanks and healers (which will never increase because they are considered stressful jobs) dont tank and healer players deserve new jobs as well?

They do but that comes down to if Square can balance them properly which, as you said, has been a problem.

[Projectmars]

They were not but there are 2 things pointing to a very likely possibility of them being 1.
1.) the leaks have mostly been correct so far and they list gunblader as a tank
2.) the game got 2 dps jobs last expansion and the game does need a healer and a tank to balance out the raid compositions

And like I said why shouldn't it be a tank?
Cant tank and healer players get new jobs too?

That Blufever guy that leaked all that sort of stuff never specifically stated the Gunblade class will be a tank, but did specifically state that the Blue Mage would be a kind of supportive magic DPS. (along with other stuff that was later revealed after said leaks)

Not saying that the Gunblade class can't be a tank, just that there hasn't been a statement (as far as I could find at least) from a credible source stating they will be.

- - - Updated - - -

AFAIR Alisaie rerolled from paladin to red mage, so it doesn't have to make sense.

From what I've heard, the Gladiator job is the "default" job for NPCs and that Thancred also used stuff from that job prior to the introduction of the Rogue/Ninja classes.

[Veluren]

From what I've heard, the Gladiator job is the "default" job for NPCs and that Thancred also used stuff from that job prior to the introduction of the Rogue/Ninja classes.

They worked both of those into the story in a really cheeky way, Thancred called himself a gladiator to hide that he was actually a Rogue, and Alisae had to fight like a Gladiator because if she tried casting spells while already using a sword made out of her aether it would have killed her, which is why she doesn't properly respec until she gets a rapier.

It's the little things, really.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

From what I've heard, the Gladiator job is the "default" job for NPCs and that Thancred also used stuff from that job prior to the introduction of the Rogue/Ninja classes.

Yup. Lore-wise she was very much an arcanist before her return at the end of Heavensward.

[Necroxis]

Actually kind of shocked that Alphinaud hasn't transitioned out of being an Arcanist yet.

Would love it if he became a Dancer.

...

...

...

I'm only kind of joking. I want to see him dancing in a belly shirt.

[Veluren]

Actually kind of shocked that Alphinaud hasn't transitioned out of being an Arcanist yet.

Would love it if he became a Dancer.

...

...

...

I'm only kind of joking. I want to see him dancing in a belly shirt.

I think there were expectations for him to become a blue mage since Alisae's a red mage and her outfit is very red-dominant compared to him always having so much blue in his outfit

He still can, but it's put him a situation where he could be able to do way more than a player blue mage so I feel like people would cry foul. Besides, him developing arcanist stuff so powerful it's basically made him an offshoot summoner is pretty unique in its own way.

[Katchii]

I'd rather have full-fledged new job that learns their abilities from monsters than stupid gimmick whose only purpose is to grind brainless openworld content just to have a Blue Mage in the game.

They do learn abilities from monsters though?

[Melsiren]

Real quick, something we should all consider when it comes down to the Leak. Things can and have been changed fairly late into production before when it comes to FF14.

Let us not forget HW was supposed to introduce SAM as a tank and Viera instead of Au Ra. It could be very possible that leak was correct at one point. BLU could have been a support DPS in the early drafts, it just does not reflect in the final product.

Keep that in mind when it comes down to expectations at this point forward.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I think there were expectations for him to become a blue mage since Alisae's a red mage and her outfit is very red-dominant compared to him always having so much blue in his outfit

He still can, but it's put him a situation where he could be able to do way more than a player blue mage so I feel like people would cry foul. Besides, him developing arcanist stuff so powerful it's basically made him an offshoot summoner is pretty unique in its own way.

I mean power-wise he could do all the same things actually due to how BLU works.

Where it'd get weird is he'd be an 80 BLU when everyone else is capped at like 50-70.

- - - Updated - - -

Real quick, something we should all consider when it comes down to the Leak. Things can and have been changed fairly late into production before when it comes to FF14.

Let us not forget HW was supposed to introduce SAM as a tank and Viera instead of Au Ra. It could be very possible that leak was correct at one point. BLU could have been a support DPS in the early drafts, it just does not reflect in the final product.

Keep that in mind when it comes down to expectations at this point forward.

That bolded part is what a lot of people say about the Ronso part of the leak. That, similar to Viera in HW, it was a considered race that was ultimately scrapped.

[Katchii]

I too look forward to MP/TP rework. I've echo'd before both are archaic at this point and could easily accomplish job design with just the job gauges as a resource.

Regarding BLU - I'm torn. I don't LIKE the idea of the FFXI implementation, but I understand it and why people would like it. If you feel like reading, there's a bit of insight above.

As much as I'd like for it to be a full fledged job that can do everything the rest of the classes can do, I'd feel like it was being seriously constrained because there's no way to let Blue Mage act like a Blue Mage, learning all kinds of abilities from monsters while also being pigeon holed into a balanced, structured rotation that would fit into the meta.

I would think that they'd be able to come up with a balance of some kind, building a balanced group rotation/ performance based on a specific set of learned spells and make those spells a minimum queueing requirement alongside ilevel, while also allowing it to perform unhindered when not in the Duty Finder. That would be ideal.

But I'd rather they do it this way than try to stuff it into the normal FFXIV esque job structure, that just wouldn't be real Blue Mage, just a Blue Mage themed job that plays like many other FFXIV jobs.

I'm OK with this being a kind of test flight for other jobs though, allowing for more jobs that break the mold, while figuring out how to make these fit within the game's design.

This IS a brand new thing, so I don't expect everything to be 100% polished and complete right out of the gate. It will be iterated upon, so here's hoping this is just the beginning of something great.

In the mean time, I'll be enjoying my ability farming as a kind of side content, and enjoying trying to find ways to solo things no other job can.

[Rogalicus]

They do learn abilities from monsters though?

I meant that they could've used that specific gimmick without effectively making job solo only.

[Katchii]

I meant that they could've used that specific gimmick without effectively making job solo only.

I don't doubt that they could have, I just feel that for them to get it into a normal group format they'd have to balance it like they do the rest, and doing that would mean they'd have to control which spells they could learn, limit the number of spells, and it wouldn't REALLY be Blue Mage, just a FFXIV esque job with Blue Mage flavor.

While I'd still play the job, I'm not sure that's really doing service to what Blue Mage is meant to be, and I think that eventually they'll be able to figure out a way to make it work.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I meant that they could've used that specific gimmick without effectively making job solo only.

I mean that gets to the core of the issue.

You can have a Blue Mage, or you can have a generic job named Blue Mage.

They could have just built a generic class and attached monster ability names to it, with some job quest handwaving for how you learn them.

They chose instead to actually implement a huge list of learnable abilities, and acknowledged there's no way in hell to balance it, so they didn't try.