[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Grym]

There's a new mount on the game's store:

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...0d2bc48c25affc

I caved in and bought one for myself to add to my collection. It plays Phoenix's theme from T12.

I was thinking the mount is fugly.

But for the theme I probably will end up getting one now, damn you for telling me this.

[SodiumChloride]

His solution is only supposed to address one thing: the mattering of his ability to perform. Because judging by his posts he clearly can't perform even on a basic level that the encounter demands, because if he could, he would see the whole "toxicity" thing as the non issue, created by a few asshats you will find in every online game, it is.

Putting aside your attempt at an ad hominem.

It's not like you don't get frustrated when some noob flubs a raid encounter that you have cleared for the umpteenth time.

People generally don't like getting punished for other people's mistakes.

People also generally don't like getting yelled at, so they don't group at all.

If you can't see the problems cause by the current system, I don't know what else to tell you.

[Graeham]

I was thinking the mount is fugly.

But for the theme I probably will end up getting one now, damn you for telling me this.

I'll likely use it rarely but...I'm a sucker for expanding my collection.

I grabbed the Vath mount today too. I guess I'll work on getting the Kobold mount next.

[Grym]

I usually sucker for mount that either look nice, or has special music that I like

Damn that Levy mount.....

[Granyala]

If you can't see the problems cause by the current system, I don't know what else to tell you.

There is no problem.
Not every game out there has to suit to everyones tastes.

It's as simple as that. There are enough people that like the team play the way it is now in order to be profitable.
As long as that is the case, Blizzard will continue with this design.

It's not like you don't get frustrated when some noob flubs a raid encounter that you have cleared for the umpteenth time.

Yes I am. But lets think about WHY I am frustrated.
Am I frustrated because we wiped due to a mistake of a potentially inexperienced player?
Not really no.

I am frustrated because the game makes me do the content so often, that I am sick and tired of it and just want it to be over with to get [currency], because the actual drops in there got irrelevant months back.
Ever noticed how people are much more forgiving and patient when content is fresh and everybody is learning it? After 6 months ... not so much anymore.

Putting aside your attempt at an ad hominem.

Well, sometimes you have to shake the tree to see what falls out. Nothing personal. I'm sure you can recreate the train of thoughts that led me to these suspicions rather easily.

[dope_danny]

Finally got my last unidentified i can buy with esos with 5 bones and 9 shells to go, so with no good hunt linkshell i think its beast tribe dailies, roullette dailies and the odd coil boost left now for the last 14 of 80 relic maguffins, yeesh.

But thank god its on the home stretch, if you are just starting find a hunt linkshell if your server has any open ones!

[SodiumChloride]

There is no problem.
Not every game out there has to suit to everyones tastes.

It's not a matter of taste when it comes to toxic (/isolationist) behavior of the players.

This is a matter of cause and effect.

This gameplay design results in toxic (/isolationist) behavior of the players as a consequence.

That's all I'm saying. Just pointing out a (IMHO rather huge) flaw in this type of game design. Nothing else.

[Xilurm]

You guys realize those are the reasons guilds/FC's exist right?

[Granyala]

It's not a matter of taste when it comes to toxic (/isolationist) behavior of the players.

Actually very very much so.

In the beginning before WoW became mainstream, MMOs were a niche. Tailored to a specific audience.

WoW brought in a metric ton of people that, in essence, were unsuitable to the genre. These people would then do as much as they can alone and clobber for more solo content (in a MMO, that wish never made sense to me, go play stuff like Skyrim/Witcher if you want solo play).

As for toxic: every person defines "toxic" as something else.
Many players would run away screaming because I state things plainly w/o wrapping stuff in 3 layers of diplomacy and call me "toxic". Other players welcome my "direct data, no BS" attitude.

Many people here, in this very thread think that using recount to tell a DPS when he is failing at his duties & playing his class wrong = toxic and scream and kick against ingame meters in FF-XIV.
Most players I met are actually thankful if you give them hints on how to do better, if you do it in a polite, data/hard fact oriented way.

[Lathais]

It's not like you don't get frustrated when some noob flubs a raid encounter that you have cleared for the umpteenth time.

I don't. Not if they mentioned they were a newb first. What bothers me is only when they do not try to get better. I actually fully enjoy helping new people out, teaching them the ropes and helping them improve. It's when they lash out at you for trying to help them I get upset. When they say things like I pay for this game, so I'll play however I want. Well, got news for those types, I pay too and you are preventing me from playing the way I like.

People generally don't like getting punished for other people's mistakes.

Again, I do not mind this at all. It's part of the team experience. Just like in any real life team environment, if one person messes up, everyone fails.

People also generally don't like getting yelled at, so they don't group at all.

This I agree with. However, FFXIV has great GM support and if you report people for yelling/harassing, something actually gets done, unlike in other games. So this really should not be an issue at all, if people would just report people. I think they are "jaded" a bit from other games though, where reporting has almost no effect.

If you can't see the problems cause by the current system, I don't know what else to tell you.

We see that you perceive these as problems, but we do not. It's simply a matter of opinion.

[Granyala]

That's what I did, I haven't played MMOs seriously for some time. I log in and dick around a little now and then.

Same here, in both FF & WoW.

Me be "filthy, game ruining casual scum" now.

- - - Updated - - -

I think they are "jaded" a bit from other games though, where reporting has almost no effect.

Thought about reporting the moron that kicked me because I didn't have access to a lv 30 spell at lv 28.

But I am not deluded enough to think that there would be any action from the support. They most likely banhammer me for wasting their time with such a trivial matter.

[Lathais]

Thought about reporting the moron that kicked me because I didn't have access to a lv 30 spell at lv 28.

But I am not deluded enough to think that there would be any action from the support. They most likely banhammer me for wasting their time with such a trivial matter.

Maybe in another game that would have happened, but not here. Here, the player that kicked you would likely have received a warning, at least, if he was not a repeat offender. They take harassment quite seriously here, and that was harassment.

The problem really arises from people not reporting, whatever their reasons may be. If you don't report it, nothing gets done, people continue their behavior.

If more people reported, they would see that people consider this a problem and do something about it.

[SodiumChloride]

It's not a flaw, it's just one of the unfortunate consequences of having team-based play.

That's all I'm saying.

[Faroth]

That's all I'm saying.

So, for example... say the group failed the encounter, but the game read you personally didn't get hit by mechanics and met DPS requirements and so, even though the boss didn't die and you wiped or ran out of time for the encounter, you'd still get loot as if you had completed the encounter?

Hm. I guess I can see an area for discussion on the idea. If you didn't get something it's entirely on you, but I'm not sure it would feel as rewarding as finally defeating a boss together.

If you want to go that route of you can solo whatever and people can hop in and help if they want to, that conceptually sounds like the GW2 active events, which I didn't find very engaging or engrossing at all.

I think it's a matter of, like others have said, wanting to alter an aspect of a game built on that aspect of the game.

I don't like FPS games. I just don't play them, I don't argue that the genre should be changed.
If you don't like group based games or group content, you don't play group based games with group content.

I've still yet to see many people be asshats in FFXIV and it's largely because of the incentives that have been added. We've run Praetorium more times than we can count now. It's been like 2 years of running that thing and the MSQ is still only a couple of dungeons over and over and over. It's a silent speed run after greetings are out of the way to get your currency.....

....unless someone's never run it. Then it starts off with "Woohoo, new person!" "Sweet, bonus!" And I typically see people giving some general notes during the run for the new person.

The mentor system, though some will abuse it, has repercussions for misuse and is designed to help other players. And it will put you in some surprising runs for that roulette.

Personally, the biggest problem with MMOs today is cross-server grouping. Keep duty finders, but make a server only option. From EQ through WoW Wrath, it was fun meeting people on your server, running things with them, and finding personalities that gel with you and forming friendships to run things with.

The lack of ever seeing people again make it impossible to form any sort of bonds in MMOs now.

[Aruhen]

The lack of ever seeing people again make it impossible to form any sort of bonds in MMOs now.

I don't think this is as big of an issue as it is in some other MMOs. Sure there's a cross server dungeon finder but I myself constantly run into the same people and interact with them out in the world. Of course its not the same as it is in the examples you mentioned but eh its probably the best we can get with the way MMOs are nowadays.

[Faroth]

I don't think this is as big of an issue as it is in some other MMOs. Sure there's a cross server dungeon finder but I myself constantly run into the same people and interact with them out in the world. Of course its not the same as it is in the examples you mentioned but eh its probably the best we can get with the way MMOs are nowadays.

All I'd like to see is a tick box that, if you're willing to sacrifice speed, it will try to match you with same-server players in duty finder. I wouldn't argue for removing cross-server play as it IS a lot faster and convenient.

Granted, linkshells are intended to offer social networking beyond the FC.

[Aruhen]

All I'd like to see is a tick box that, if you're willing to sacrifice speed, it will try to match you with same-server players in duty finder. I wouldn't argue for removing cross-server play as it IS a lot faster and convenient.

Granted, linkshells are intended to offer social networking beyond the FC.

Yeah I wouldn't mind that I guess. Though whatever we say we are getting a cross realm party finder of sorts though in 3.3 (?). I gotta wonder how that'll work...

[Granyala]

If it'll work like Blizzard manual group finder that would be pretty decent imo.

[SodiumChloride]

So, for example... say the group failed the encounter, but the game read you personally didn't get hit by mechanics and met DPS requirements and so, even though the boss didn't die and you wiped or ran out of time for the encounter, you'd still get loot as if you had completed the encounter?

You have to give objectives that "make sense" ... e.g. you are not there to kill the boss, although it would be helpful, but there to steal something of his ...

You still have to clear your objective to get your reward.

The point is, not to make other players playing perfectly a requirement for clearing your own personal objective.

If you don't like group based games or group content, you don't play group based games with group content.

I really wish you guys would stop putting words in my mouth.

If I'm playing an MMO, obviously I want to play with other people. However I rather not be beholden to them and they to me.

Playing WoW for years, so many times I enter a dungeon, I hear (paraphrased) "Never tank this before ... forgive me if I make a few mistakes." ... people are so afraid of screwing up, of not living up to expectations ... etc. How freaking stressful is that? It's a freaking video game FFS. How many players are avoiding said content because they don't want the stress?

Look at the popularity of the tank role ... there is a reason there is a tank shortage. As a tank, you are frequently a single point of failure. Your fuck up could meaning wiping the group. As DPS (or even heals) your life is less stressful because you can drop dead and it will rarely lead to a wipe.

PS: Forced cooperation also kinds of kills the meaning of it no? Everyone is there to "do their job" because they are supposed to. This is different from someone going out of their way to give you a hand. The latter involve choice, they choose to help you. The former, doesn't - it's forced; they are suppose to.

[Granyala]

The point is, not to make other players playing perfectly a requirement for clearing your own personal objective.

Outside of Mythic / Savage, perfect play is hardly a requirement. Oo

I usually only play casters.
Even I can tank dungeons no problem and currently I almost exclusively do hit that DRK-I-Win insta queue button because waiting 15 minutes sucks.