[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Poppincaps]

So to anyone complaining about not having a new healer, it is totally your right to be upset. If you're a healer main of course you're going to want a new job to mess around with. That being said, these two jobs are what's best for the game. There were only 2 physical ranged jobs in the game, so they had to include another one to bring it up to the rest of the roles. Then they had to decide between healer and tank. Considering tank is the least played role, this was clearly the right choice. Give people a new tank to generate some interest in the role, as well as a higher level one so that people can get into tanking relatively quickly.

The next expac will likely be Healer/Caster so you'll get your time to shine eventually.

[Flutterguy]

The Hrothgar are straight up male Ronso from FF10. I hope their models get some refinement, but I like the idea of them.

[Sinistrem]

What's the lore behind genderlocking them to males only btw? Never heard about their race before.

[Granyala]

I'd like to be a male Viera.

There's no excuse for genderlock nonsense in modern mmos.

Just because our human culture is inclusive to the very extremes of hilarity, does not mean that cultures of fantasy races have to be.
I welcome the boldness of doing this, even though I won't ever play any different character myself.

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We need another healer ffs!

Why?
AST is already a carbon copy of WHM or SCH.

I think the main reason for not doing another healer is because they couldn't come up with a concept that felt different enough to warrant a new class.

[Sinistrem]

Why?
AST is already a carbon copy of WHM or SCH.

Tbh i think most people are disappointed not specifically because there is no new healer job, but because healer classes are so similar and healing is so stale that they hoped for any kind of meta shakup, new healer was just a best candidate to cause that. Now we are doomed to do the same thing we did for 2 expacks already, maybe with some new doodads from new levels.

And yeah, just as you said, they literally have healer with hots, healer with shields, and the only thing their imagination allowed them to do when they wanted to add a new healer was to make one that can do either, and throw in some buffs as a bonus.

[MrTharne]

Now to wait for the benchmark (probably mid May since the one for SB was May 1st for a June 20th release) to make the perfect Hrothgar to Fantasia my main and to create my first alt with a Viera.

[Granyala]

Tbh i think most people are disappointed not specifically because there is no new healer job, but because healer classes are so similar and healing is so stale that they hoped for any kind of meta shakup, new healer was just a best candidate to cause that. Now we are doomed to do the same thing we did for 2 expacks already, maybe with some new doodads from new levels.

In order to change up the healing they would basically have to redesign the whole game.

What we do as healers is dictated by the encounter design. I don't think SE wants to fundamentally change a winning formula, so I wouldn't hold my breath for any drastic changes to how healers approach the game. The fact that we spend so much time DPSing is already rather unorthodox, if you compare it to WoW style MMOs.

[threads]

just rewatched the stream and noticed dancer's weapons are just called "throwing weapons" and not chakrams only and they mentioned they could have throwing knives and shurikens etc. sounds awesome.

[Eleccybubb]

Just because our human culture is inclusive to the very extremes of hilarity, does not mean that cultures of fantasy races have to be.
I welcome the boldness of doing this, even though I won't ever play any different character myself.

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Why?
AST is already a carbon copy of WHM or SCH.

I think the main reason for not doing another healer is because they couldn't come up with a concept that felt different enough to warrant a new class.

It's really not bold. It's just irritating design in an MMO.

I mean at least it's not classes like Tera but still.

[StrawberryZebra]

Why?
AST is already a carbon copy of WHM or SCH.

I think the main reason for not doing another healer is because they couldn't come up with a concept that felt different enough to warrant a new class.

Ironically, coming up with a new niche for a healer is easy. Make one that has super powerful direct heals and nothing else and you've made one that doesn't yet exist. The problem is there's no space in the game for a healer like that. By design, healers are required to all have similar basic tools that allow them to function, lacking one or more of those would make a healer all but inoperable for certain content.

Squenix have created a very limited design space for themselves, where having Jobs that perform niche roles is all but out of the question. A role is expected to be able to perform all of their responsabilities without exception, while also having their own unique gimick to deal with. While that can create some interesting game play, it also requires all Jobs of the same role to be able to perform the same functions. Hence why they can feel quite samey - They've all got the same basic toolkit to work with.

Adding something new and interesting in that kind of framework is going to mean essentially adding more gimicks to existing jobs. There's only so far you can really push that before it starts to become awkward and forced.

The more interesting way to do it would be to create jobs that are intentionally flawed from the ground up. Having an intended weakness allows for intended strengths as well, so you could excel at one role, but be far less effective outside of that. Unfortunately to implement that would require a complete overhaul of every Job from the ground up, which is far too much work at this point in time.

[Rogalicus]

Ironically, coming up with a new niche for a healer is easy. Make one that has super powerful direct heals and nothing else and you've made one that doesn't yet exist. The problem is there's no space in the game for a healer like that. By design, healers are required to all have similar basic tools that allow them to function, lacking one or more of those would make a healer all but inoperable for certain content.

Squenix have created a very limited design space for themselves, where having Jobs that perform niche roles is all but out of the question. A role is expected to be able to perform all of their responsabilities without exception, while also having their own unique gimick to deal with. While that can create some interesting game play, it also requires all Jobs of the same role to be able to perform the same functions. Hence why they can feel quite samey - They've all got the same basic toolkit to work with.

Adding something new and interesting in that kind of framework is going to mean essentially adding more gimicks to existing jobs. There's only so far you can really push that before it starts to become awkward and forced.

The more interesting way to do it would be to create jobs that are intentionally flawed from the ground up. Having an intended weakness allows for intended strengths as well, so you could excel at one role, but be far less effective outside of that. Unfortunately to implement that would require a complete overhaul of every Job from the ground up, which is far too much work at this point in time.

Ironically, most of the problems you mentioned are how Blizzard moved from WotLK to Legion gameplay over years.

[unholytestament]

Genderlocking races now just feels like a step backward. It also feels pretty damn deceptive of them to not just say from the start that they would be genderlocked, instead dodging questions and pretty much just saying "wait and see". What was the point?

[MrTharne]

Genderlocking races now just feels like a step backward. It also feels pretty damn deceptive of them to not just say from the start that they would be genderlocked, instead dodging questions and pretty much just saying "wait and see". What was the point?

They said : "We put Viera lore into the game, pay close attention to it."
In the lore dump the dude (who is kind of an insert for Matsuno) keeps repeating how rare and reclusive the Male Viera are, even stating "They simply do not exist to us."
Some people's reaction : "So they do exist! We'll have Male Viera then"...
And they wanted to make Hrothgar a surpise I'm sure (which got leaked by an error in the French Client) and since they were also old leaks floating around with Female Viera only + Male Ronso Race, them saying "No male Viera!" would have just validate those old leaks and ruined the surprise.

[Musta]

In order to change up the healing they would basically have to redesign the whole game.

What we do as healers is dictated by the encounter design. I don't think SE wants to fundamentally change a winning formula, so I wouldn't hold my breath for any drastic changes to how healers approach the game. The fact that we spend so much time DPSing is already rather unorthodox, if you compare it to WoW style MMOs.

Turret Healing with trees!

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And a jesus beam

[Tome]

From 2013

[unholytestament]

They said : "We put Viera lore into the game, pay close attention to it."
In the lore dump the dude (who is kind of an insert for Matsuno) keeps repeating how rare and reclusive the Male Viera are, even stating "They simply do not exist to us."
Some people's reaction : "So they do exist! We'll have Male Viera then"...
And they wanted to make Hrothgar a surpise I'm sure (which got leaked by an error in the French Client) and since they were also old leaks floating around with Female Viera only + Male Ronso Race, them saying "No male Viera!" would have just validate those old leaks and ruined the surprise.

So instead they... Validate those leaks at a later date.

[MrTharne]

So instead they... Validate those leaks at a later date.

They validate their content when and where they wanted them to be validated, at major events.
Not their fault the playerbase doesn't listen when they say to read closely what is said and build expectation behond reason.

[unholytestament]

They validate their content when and where they wanted them to be validated, at major events.

Okay. And? That means what I said was correct. Nevermind that there are three of these events and they waited until the last one to clarify. There's no reason they couldn't have confirmed viera are female only and hinted at another race without giving any details.

Not their fault the playerbase doesn't listen when they say to read closely what is said and build expectation behond reason.

How is any of this "beyond reason"? It would be perfectly reasonable for them to make male viera. I mean, before ARR we didn't have male miqo'te or female roegadyn (or female highlander hyur!). It's just baffling to me that they are digging up an old element that ARR specifically got rid of.

[Veluren]

What if we get a hand on them

And it turns out Hrothgar ARE male Viera, it's just a race with exceptionally bizarre sexual dimorphism.

[Katchii]

It's really not bold. It's just irritating design in an MMO.

I mean at least it's not classes like Tera but still.

I don't see a problem with it. Their game, their decisions and they created the lore to support it.

I honestly don't really understand the hate around it.

TERA gender locks the classes, which is BS, though somewhat understandable from a development stand point (more animations and gear stuff to do, take longer to manage).