1. #1

    Disc: haste critt mastery

    Im new to the *haste is awesome for disco priests*. Im just so oldschool that i want mastery and critt hehe. But im trying it out the haste, and was wondering: How much haste, critt and mastery do you run with?

  2. #2
    I usually run with enough haste for a 2 sec PoH and Gheal, then I tend to stack crit. Haste crit and mastery are about equal so take which stats are better for your role. I believe Crit and haste is great for aoe oriented healing and haste mastery for more tank healing.
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  3. #3
    I run with a stacking mastery build, and 9/10 come out top of my guilds healers. I get enough haste in the meantime though to feel comfortable, and crit is...well crit.

    What's funny is that I stacked mastery for my holy spec, but raiding FL I've been finding disc can still pull the numbers and have far better mana, so have since swapped for holy spec out so that i can have an AA spec and a SoS/ToT spec for disc.

    The only time that I can think disc may lose out is Domo, due to the sheer AoE burst that holy can do.
    Last edited by Triage; 2011-11-03 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Additional notes.

  4. #4
    All of the stats are useful depending on your spell selection.

    This can work 2 ways.

    a) decide on your play style and spell usage and stack the appropriate stats (eg mastery for bubble spamming)
    b) stack a stat and optimise your spell usage accordingly (eg you have lots of mastery, use more bubbles)

    I think really a mix between those 2 will net you the best results rather than 'herp derp stacking mastery and spamming PoH'

    Also consider that raw throughput is very rarely optimal and priority on keeping people alive is. Mastery gives the raid that extra buffer against damage despite it lacking in throughput for PoH. Stronger bubbles may also save people from death.
    Haste may let you heal that person in time, where you may otherwise be too slow. Haste allows you to cover more of the raid for less.
    Crit is RNG, but in a situation where you're fishing for crits it may be more useful than other stats (eg stacking DA shields on a tank)

    they are just a few examples, you should choose your own stats based on how you play and what you're trying to achieve.
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  5. #5

    10 man support/raid heals: Haste
    10 man tank heals: Crit
    25 man support/raid heals: Mastery
    25 man tank heals: Mastery/Crit balance

    What I use and it works very well for me.

  6. #6
    Mastery through and through.

    Crit is too untrustworthy.
    Haste is not really required with Borrowed Time.

    Mastery really shines with a resto druid or holy priest, essentially your massive bubbles create "holes" that their constant hots can fill, it's fantastic synergy.

  7. #7
    Personally, I would not care if crit or mastery would be way more efficient than haste. I love haste because it feels less...slow. It's annoying to run a build with low haste and the heals just seems to take forever. I've tried full crit, haste and mastery builds and for me, haste is just king. Just reforge/gem/gear Int-Spi-haste-whatever is my motto. Have worked since Cata release and is still very viable. I don't re-forge out of spirit, SPI is a great output stat. The more you have, the more HPS-spells you can dish out when you really need it. Aka, have enough SPI to use those extra 23 flash heals during Rag. Just saying.

    Only thing I will say is something about crit. They're nice, really. Makes good procs and what not but crit is still RNG no matter how you slice it, and to rely on crit as a healer is by design a dangerous approach. Think to yourself, sightly better heals or faster and more responsive heals? Is it fun to feel like a dreamstate druid with curse of tongues, or is it more fun to feel like you're having constant bloodlust?

    And in the end, secondary stats is just that...secondary. The primary is the player. Secondary stats as a healer will not make you fail. If it would, we would not have downed a single boss while I'm experimenting with stats, which happens quite frequently.

  8. #8
    My role is kind of complicated, as i don't really have one. We have a pally tank healer and druid raid healer with me just floating around doing whatever is needed for us not to die (sometimes that includes going shadow) :P

    I'm stacking haste > crit >= mastery
    Currently sitting at 1601 haste, 1204 crit, 1096 mastery and 1884 total spirit (before trinkets)

  9. #9
    Haste is the way to go. I cant believe people still think mastery is good.... Mastery improves only 1 spell. PW:S that's it. It does improve DA a little bit, but really if you want to improve your DA you stack crit. Haste improves every single spell.

    Mastery is bad for tank healing because again if u have a ton of mastery then the only real improvement you are going to see is a 31k pw:s on tank every 15 secs instead of 28k pw:s on tank every 15 secs. If you raid heal by spamming pw:s on raid then you are bad, this is not wotlk. Mastery does not work for raid healing. The only way I could see it working for raid healing is if you stacked only master and crit and just kept on spamming poh the whole fight on groups even if they are topped.

    Haste works because it reduces your reaction time. If the whole fight the only thing you would do is stand still and heal then yeah reaching certain points of haste and then going for other stats would make sence. However when you play you move constantly even on fights like baleroc. So haste lest you "get back to healing" after you move a lot faster.

    For me its Int>haste=spirit>crit>mastery

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Antti View Post
    Haste is not really required with Borrowed Time.
    No, no, a thousand times no. Don't sell Haste short... the faster you can cast the quicker you get stuff out! For every point of haste you have it makes your previous points of haste better. Further, Haste is the the cheapest to increase point for point.

    128 Haste rating = 1% haste
    179 Crit rating = 1% crit
    179 Mastery rating = 1% Mastery

    Instead of rehashing this topic again, I'll just point to Valen's simulation results.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Sterilize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derevka View Post
    No, no, a thousand times no. Don't sell Haste short... the faster you can cast the quicker you get stuff out! For every point of haste you have it makes your previous points of haste better. Further, Haste is the the cheapest to increase point for point.

    128 Haste rating = 1% haste
    179 Crit rating = 1% crit
    179 Mastery rating = 1% Mastery

    Instead of rehashing this topic again, I'll just point to Valen's simulation results.
    I'm not gonna say you're wrong as you're obviously further into PvE content than I, but all of the priests speaking from personal experience *past* that post speak of how their raids were worse off than when they were stacking mastery. Yes, haste gives them more raw output- but the reduction and control of mastery stacking seems to have worked out a lot better for them.

    "I think you're doing the same mistake as a lot of new, smart priests are doing. You're treating healing like dps and trying to evaluate your stats purely by spreadsheets. I can guarantee better results if you just start gemming, speccing and reforging for fights instead of having fixed values." -Lambii
    Last edited by Sterilize; 2011-11-04 at 12:04 PM.
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  12. #12
    By no means am I suggesting to blindly follow sim results. That is just as bad as blindly following a spec that is "best". You need to understand the mechanics behind it. That said, stating that borrowed Time is enough is exceptionally myopic. as fluid and dynamic as healin is; it ultimately is a numbers game so Sims still have validity. It's easy to just dismiss stuff as "it works for me"; albeit potentially short selling.

    Doing what works best for you is always the name of the game, despite that.

  13. #13
    Ok so there is alot of disagreement about haste/mastery still. So its up to find what works for me. Ok ok. Just had to ask the smart ppl out there what they though before i ruined my priest hehe

  14. #14
    So all we know is crit is unreliable.
    I, and some, prefer Mastery, others Haste... awesome, some good legit debate (diversity is fun (in a game)).
    It depends on your play style and comfort as healing is a 0-sum game and there is room for fudging around.

    My personal reasons for mastery are,
    My raid comp has a holy priest or resto druid with it, so I see mastery stacking as "creating a hole where holy or resto druids tiny hots can fill." (it's weird, I know). Fat bubbles and tiny hots work well synergistically.
    I tend to rely on atonement during down time or steady damage, yes there's a lot of over-healing, however its essentially a stream of bubbles and heals that keeps the tank topped off (and using DMC:V and Necromatic Focus, I have a lot of mastery).
    During times of let's say PoH spam, I have borrowed time and power infusion, so I have all that haste on top of stacked mastery.
    Again, it all depends on your play-style (which is really a strength of being a disc priest).
    Last edited by Antti; 2011-11-04 at 03:32 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Antti View Post
    So all we know is crit is unreliable.
    It isn't going to be your first stat because haste at certain breakpoints etc will guarantee you throughput needed to save people under certain damage patterns in fights (read: 25 heroic beth'tilac last phase) but after you get as much haste as you can there are going to be other stats and mastery is best if you crit a good bit. Being unreliable is irrelevant when its a secondary secondary-stat choice, non crit PoH and shield is all mastery gives you a bonus on and although it will help you no question crit balanced with that will make it more valuable especially in a raid buffed situation. Realistically you aren't going to get enough crit or mastery to where you would say "oh I've got too much lets go for this other one" when you aren't stacking them. I reforge to haste if there isn't haste on the piece leave the crit or the mastery alone if its with haste and I end up within less than a 200 difference of crit to mastery, so if I got a lot of new pieces with one or the other I might reforge to balance them if it was a big discrepancy but its been pretty close for a while now without doing any reforging for anything but haste.

    unbuffed on the armory: 2007 haste 781 crit 688 mastery 2601 spirit, nothing reforged to or away from spirit

    ends up being just under 27% haste and just under 23% crit 29~% mastery raid buffed

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Vand3tz's Avatar
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    My comp will always have a resto druid or holy paladin as well as me so I'm currently favouring Haste > Mastery > Crit, as it allows me to switch between tank healing and raid healing on different fights without much trouble, on this week's clear the highest I pulled was 27k (beth) and the lowest was 11k (alys tank healing), all with the same gear.
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  17. #17
    Epic! dryankem's Avatar
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    I personally like around 10-13% haste. Anything less felt like I was struggling to keep up. Mastery and Crit I seem to balance, although I like to experiment fairly often.

  18. #18
    I run with the stats; Int, Crit, Mastery, Haste, Spirit:
    Armory atm (personal caps)

    Int:--------7248----------( no cap )
    Crit:------- 2035 / 23.7%--( 20% to 25% unbuffed)
    Mastery:---1760 / 17.8%--( no cap )
    Haste:------995 / 7.7%----( 13% raid buffed )
    Spirit:-------1145----------( as low as I can get it )

    I run with a very unconventional spec to most what with high crit and low spirit, currently my guild is progressing 4 of 7 heroic 10 man and so far healing it hasn't been an issue well except for baleroc I tend to over spend mana at the start but other then that fight mana has never been an issue and keeping tanks up is even less of an issue.

    If I could I would use less spirit but at the moment it's impossible as only my 4 tier items and the rep ring have spirit and all of it is reforged out.
    Last edited by CoolNitro; 2011-11-05 at 04:03 AM.

  19. #19
    I don't understand why people say Shield Spamming is not viable due to mana. I run with 3000 spirit, we are 6/7 heroic, working on phase 4 rag. Stacking full mastery and spirit; my healing breakdown looks something like 35-40% PWS, 25-30% DA, the rest greater heal, with almost no prayer of healing (this is 10 man and I just feel like maintaining 10 shields the whole fight on people is superior to prayer). I also run Strength of Soul talent, which makes tank healing Shield > Gheal > Gheal > Shield. Allowing for full use of matery.

    And if you REALLY need a faster heal, just cast Flash Heal that is why that spell is there.... sure it isn't as mana effective a gheal, but stacking "throughput" stats, each of your heals is worth more for the same mana that you can afford to flash heal and be fine on mana.... If you look at raw HPS also Flash Heal is higher HPS than Gheal, meaning you should be casting it when somebody is in trouble anyways.

    I have yet to encounter a situation where casting faster would be of any benefit at all. If you know the fight, you'll be ready with shields.

    However, this build requires 2 things: this is alot more viable on 10 man where you can PWS your whole raid constantly. Also your second healer needs to be a druid.
    This ends up being you using shields to "save" ppl from death and giving druid hots top them off. While the druid tops of the raid with hots, you just focus the tanks full time.

    Main reason I like this; I don't cast on tank reactively, greater heal is slow enough with no haste that I can cast greater heal in between PWS on the tank (Even if they are full hp, unless somebody else is below like 70% hp) the whole fight non-stop and not even come close to going oom.

    Every boss fight me and the druid are equal healing or within 5% or so, but the druid outgears me by like 5-6 ilvl. (4 clothie raid make up qq)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e953zzqubqpcyvxu/ this Tuesday 2 hour 6/7 clear. (I actually play Shadow on Rag attempts, and another disc priest steps in because I do better DPS than some other people.)

    As last note, prayer of healing does have its uses, I just dont like it :P

    Funny tid bit: Our fury warrior tanks Beth and our Prot pally heals on that fight!
    Last edited by Garouken; 2011-11-05 at 09:37 AM.

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