[10HM] Beth'tilac Help?

[zarrin]

Alright - so let me preface this by saying a bit about my guild. 5/7 HM 10-man, easily burn through 4 HMs (Rhyolith, Shannox, Alysrazor, Baleroc) in about an hour and a half without any problems.

But we just mash our head into a wall on Beth'tilac. It's just not even funny right now. We need some help.

Raid Comp:
Protection Paladin
Protection Paladin

Holy Paladin
Restoration Shaman
Holy Priest

Marksmanship Hunter
Affliction Warlock
Arcane Mage
Feral Druid
Frost Death Knight

I have a few other people I can bring in off our bench (another Arcane Mage, another Marksman Hunter).

So here's my thoughts right now - we want our Holy Priest to go disc (it'd be helpful) but he hasn't gotten it down yet, and he's more comfortable holy. We've tried having our hunter solo the spiderlings and soaking the broodlings but it seems to be too much to him (yes I've seen the videos of hunters doing it but apparently ours can't, and he can barely manage the adds solo without some help). We originally tried Hunter/Priest outside handling the adds (priest helping with broodlings and keeping them both alive) but that failed miserably since it was basically draining our Shaman's mana.

Sunday (we raid Tuesday, Sunday, Monday) we're going to have him over there with a bit of help from our DK tossing out anything at range (we don't want him to get screwed by a fixate) and backstopping the broodlings our hunter misses and our Holy Paladin trying to hit a few broodlings and keeping the hunter/DK up.

We tried using our Holy Paladin upstairs but found him to be more useful downstairs healing - so now we're sending our holy priest upstairs (we're still hoping he learns disc and is more useful downstairs). Our feral druid is going upstairs as DPS on the first two upstairs, but the third one he's staying downstairs (that's the plan at least, we never get that far - in fact we were having so much difficulty we started keeping him down).

We keep our lock and Mage on the spinners and DK helps on spinners (especially taunts) and spiderlings when needed (though while spinners are up he's not very helpful on spiderlings). During first smoldering devastation we're popping DG, second we're doing Aura, third we're doing a DG until Beth comes down (but we're not getting there).

Is our hunter just failing? Should I just dedicate two-three people to the spiderlings/broodlings even though fixate can screw us? Should I just replace our hunter until we find one that can solo the adds? We've got markers on the caves.

What other advice do you guys have? Anyone have any better ways of positioning our raid/strategizing this fight?

I know it's tough without seeing our players and knowing their strengths and weaknesses but any help you can offer will be helpful.

[Rhag]

The way my guild does this we have a boomkin/spriests on spiderlings and broodlings, and it works out good for us.
have you thought about ur warlock going demo for this? DEmo locks are very strong to deal with spiderlings

[Deleted]

Put MM hunter on soloing the Spiderlings (Really easy with either SV spec with serpent spread + Entrapment or a MM spec with concussive barrage)
Put the DK on the broodlings (Anti magic shell is awesome for this, but a fixate on him is a bit annoying)
Put 1 player up on till first "explosion" and 1 up till 2nd one (let them use 3 min CDs).
Let everyone taunt down the spinners ASAP and dps the drones (also let hunter dps drones when the spiderlings are down and next havent come yet)

This is how my guild does it. Killing her without problems every week.

[Deleted]

Yes your hunter is failing, but when progressing on this fight as you are get the hunter to change his spec so he can AoE a lot better (min req is to have bombardment, rapid killing and rapid recuperate) with that spec his multi-shot will cost half the amount of focus as ussual and each time he kills a spiderling he will get 50 focus back witch will help a lot to finish of the other spiderlings, and another thing he can spec in to is concussive barrage witch applies a 50% slow to all targets that gets hit my multi shot.

Once your hunter get this spec its just a matter of learning to be able to control the spiderlings enough to also be able to soak the broderlings.

If your hunter already has this spec then he is just doing somethings very wrong in terms of how he plays.

[Deleted]

Literally only killed this last week for the 1st time myself with our 10man group. Some things we noticed:

Spiderlings literally have to be handled exclusively/almost exclusively by 1 dpser. Since they need to be aoe'd down (and preferably slowed) the classes available to you for it are MM hunter, Frost DK and Feral Drood. Soaking the broodlings whilst DPSing the spiderlings is obviously easiest for a ranged class, hence hunter is preferred.

1 DPS should be able to handle all/most of the spinners. Sounds like you have to many on spinners.

2 DPS on Drones.

We used a MM hunter with a healer to kill spiderlings and soak broodlings, a few times low health spiderlings got past the hunter mage would help, not sure why your shaman can't heal the downstairs tank, the upstairs tank gets hit a lot harder plus there's constant aoe.

1 thing we did was send our rogue up 1st and 3rd and stay down 2nd. Our mage with CDs was able to solo spinners in 1st and 3rd but didn't have CDs up for 2nd so needed a 2nd dps.

Really the fight comes down to EVERYONE taking some responsibility for all aspects of the fight, showing a bit of raid awareness rather than just tunnel focusing on their assignment. If a broodling isn't soaked then your DPS need to be aware enough that they can run out and pop it just outside the raid group etc.

[smashzu]

Personally, our hunter solos the adds unless they get close - this should be no problem for a properly speccd marks hunter, and your ranged dps should be soaking the broodlings when the hunter cant catch/soak them.

Your dk should go blood presence and tank the spinner adds, with all of your downstairs dps (sans hunter) killing them ASAP when they spawn. After they die, all dps switch to drones and wreck them. As the first smoldering is coming out all spinners and drones should be dead - with a few spiderlings running around.

Your raid should be able to handle the adds with ease, and the upstairs dps should drop down and help clean up the adds at ~ 2000 energy on the final SD. It's very important that Beth does not eat any spiderlings at this point. Drones can be left up - and do need to be killed quite fast - but spiderlings are the number one priority. Be aware of broodlings coming towards your stack point as well, be ready to re position yourselves.

Phase 2 requires your dps to push as hard as they can - Use hero ~ 40% and make sure that your dps cooldowns are available - You can use shorter cooldowns at the beginning of the phase, and they'll be available for the burn phase. Past 35 stacks of frenzy, she will be entire able to oneshot a tank without cooldowns, so you need to ensure that after 30% there is always a tank/raid cooldown up - Two raid walls, two defenders, barrier/GS, spirit link (paired with personal dps cooldowns), Aura mastery, etc, as well as healthstones in the final moments - so you should have no issues with this part as long as the healers and dps are at the top of their games. Your paladins can also radiance when not actively tanking to assist the healers.

The fight is a massive gear/skill check. The entire raid needs to perform, especially in 10 man. One loose link = wipes. However, once executed properly, it is not that difficult - you should have no issues.

[Trifande]

either the hunter or DK can handle the spiderlings solo (they HAVE to setup their specs for it though - not switching ur spec for this fight would be a major problem). Theoretically, this person can also handle the broodlings as well, alongwith the occasional help from their healer (yep, you have one healer focusing primarily on ur broodling soaker, but that also helps heal the raid when needed).

But, with the current nerfs to the adds HP levels, you can easily have 1 primary spiderling nuker (hunter) and 1 backup (lock or DK).

Whilst you are learning the fight and the broodling / spiderling handling I would suggest to only send 1 dps upstairs (or even none) just so that it is easier to mop-up the adds downstairs. Only once you have the hang of the downstairs mechanics/adds should you switch to sending 2 dps upstairs for the first set, followed by 1 dps for the 2 p1-sets before p2 starts.

As long as you don't have the Drone turned towards the group, and you constantly taunt down the Spinners (and anyone with aggro on them should bring them towards the tank/melee for cleaves), the healing downstairs should be relatively simple between the Smouldering casts.

Pre nerf Beth was indeed the hardest heroic pre-Ragnaros, and if your avg. gear level is low (esp. for dps) it will still be quite hard for you. Just make sure you put in enough tries so that you can learn the mechanics and if needed come back to it after gearing up a bit more.

Cheers.

[Deleted]

I'm soloing the spiderlings as Marksman Hunter - did need a few tries to get used to the soaking though - i'm trying to lay the pools in a straight line from spider spawn towards the middle, makes it way easier if there are multiple addwaves spawning from the same location.

I'm using this Spec for the encounter, not really needed anymore with the equipment i have by now but rather safe than sorry. Just make sure that the or one of the bottom healers pays attention to the hunter, i tend to drop quite low from time to time.

[Deleted]

This fight relies alot on your 1 ranged on the spiderlings doing a good job. Im a MM hunter and solo dps them with a resto druid helping take the Broodlings i cant get. You hunter needs the right spec for it though, rapid killing, concussive barrage and bombardment are essential. Also a point or 2 in entrapment helps alot as his frost/snake traps stun them in place for 4 secs for each trap. Rapid killing will help him get his focus back as they start to die so he can basically lay traps and spam Multi shot. We have a Pala healer, tank, and 2 dps go up first time then just send 1 dps up after that seems to work a treat. Once uv got that the rest is rinse and repeat and then some decent healing in P2. Good luck! x

[Likeaboss]

Bench your feral druid and use another MM , 2 MM's with the right spec ... wich they need to have concusive barrage , entrapment , bombardment and rapid killing . Tell ur dk frost to always taunt the spinner as they come out , also ur tank and hunters (distracting shot ) have to taunt em.
use ur mage , lock and dk to nuke /aoe spinners + drones.
if hunters get fixate just tell em to faint death
hope it helps ya.

Likeaboss.

[Kurgosh]

Killed it twice now on my MM hunter - as long as his spec has the bombardment and concussive barrage talents and his gear is appropriate for heroic modes (378+ weapon and reasonable gear otherwise) he should be able to do it. But - he can't be afraid to call for help if he's not getting a pack down fast enough. A few howling blasts or hellfires will catch him up no problem. Everyone who can spare a second should be helping him by calling out which raid marker the spiderlings are coming from, so he can get on them asap.

[Adyssa]

Since a hunter just said to remind your hunter where the spiderlings are coming from, I just thought I'd mention that hunters have tracking and can see the spiderlings on the minimap. Make sure they have it turned on. Tracking is easy to forget because it is not often useful.

[Kurgosh]

Since a hunter just said to remind your hunter where the spiderlings are coming from, I just thought I'd mention that hunters have tracking and can see the spiderlings on the minimap. Make sure they have it turned on. Tracking is easy to forget because it is not often useful.

That is an awesome idea. I always have tracking on and minimap enabled, but I rarely think to check it in the heat of battle. But when I'm waiting for a spawn from an unknown direction, that seems like the perfect time to take a peek.

[timoseewho]

Make sure your Hunter has 1/2 Rapid Killing, Bombardment, and Concussive Barrage, and lastly constantly dropping traps. If the Hunter needs to run across the room to a new spawn point, make sure he calls for help.

[PHsname]

Make sure your hunter is spec'd correctly, and have him watch videos. It's really not a hard job, and makes the fight much easier.

I would honestly keep your Priest Holy. Disc may be better if you were sending him upstairs, but if your Priest is healing downstairs, Holy will be more useful. In P2, Holy will be better anyway.

It honestly sounds like you're having DPS issues. Healing shouldn't be an issue at all. With three healers, the fight should run perfectly smooth.

Make sure your DPS aren't falling behind on the Spinners. They do a largely amount of damage for the tiny amount of health they have.

Make sure you never have more than one Drone up.

Make sure the people soaking Broodlings are running as they get hit by it so they don't take more than one tick of the puddle shit they leave behind.

Have cooldowns ready for each time Beth resets and does that nasty AoE over the entire raid. It's an easy way to burn through a ton of mana unnecessarily if you don't plan for it. Make sure your raid stacks up tightly at that time so AoE heals will get maximum efficiency.

The fight is honestly largely a DPS control check now. They have to be able to keep up with the adds. The actual outgoing damage that can't be controlled on the fight is honestly minimal.

[Betelzeus]

We were at the same point as you, and as soon as we moved our H Pally out with our hunter, we downed it immediately. Holy Pally can soak and drop fixate, as can the hunter. Along with several other paladin utilities...Then all it takes is your hunter with MAYBE a dps giving 20-30% of their attention to the spiderlings for help (I help as a boomkin because 1 set of shrooms makes life easy). Then it just comes down to spinner and drone management, where people need to know how to collect aggro on down tank. I won't go into topside because it was never a challenge for us.

TL;DR Hpally with hunter for adds.

[Byrthor]

Your hunter should be able to slow/kill the spiderlings on his own. If he needs help use the Frost DK.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lent/secondary

This is the spec that I use on my hunter for the heroic Beth. Our dps comp:

MM Hunter(me)
Moonkin Druid
Arcane Mage
Combat Rogue
Ret Paladin
Shadow Priest

We send the ret and rogue up top. The priest, moonkin, and mage are on all drones and spinners. I'm on the spiderlings and broodlings. The moonkin and mage help me when I call for assist on spiderlings or the broodlings.

All your hunter needs to do is dps down the spiderlings and have the dk take broodlings. It shouldn't be too hard for you.

[Kurzior]

It may not be an option, but 2 healing this is viable if your healers are strong, and the extra dps is a HUGE benefit. Killing things on the ground more quickly will free up a lot of healer mana and make the burn in P2 that much easier. If possible, the setup I would recommend is this:
2x Prot Pally tanking
Holy Pally heals downstairs
Disc priest upstairs
Have hunter go survival/spec MM w/concussive soloing the adds.
Frost DK and hunter share broodling duty with AMS/deterrence
Feral druid and frost dk upstairs for the first cycle, after that, just the feral druid going up for 2 and 3.
Ele shamman, mage and warlock on spinners/drones. Have them stand near the back of the drone with the holy pally so that the fixate will not take the drone too far and they can easily run it back to the tank.
dk, both pallies, hunter should be helping taunt down spinners AFTER the upstairs tank gets the first 2 himself. Downstairs tank try to save AoE taunt for pickup.

P2 burn, start cycling personal cds after the first 2 or 3 AoE bursts. Start using raid cd's (Aura mastery, PW:Barrier) after about 10 stacks of her damage buff. Heroism when she gets to about 11-12 stacks.

[stuffandthings]

Your hunter should be able to solo the spiderlings by himself, and the holy pally should be able to soak the broodlings by himself since he can easily keep himself alive.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9xL2VbJRQ4- Holy pally soaking broodlings PoV

[Notdev]

Spinners don't do much damage when they are on the ground, have them cleaved down/aoed once everything else is dead. A spinner on the ground is last priority for DPS.

We have a holy paladin and boomkin soloing all spiderlings/broodlings. If the boomkin has to run to a spawn on the other side, he'll call for backup. Our alt run has a hunter and resto druid soloing spiderlings/broodlings.

I also saw another strat while tagging along with an alt run of a top 25US guild, they pretty much just winged it lol, didn't assign any DPS to anything downstairs, just had people destroy spiderlings when they were up, then switch to drones, soak broodlings individually, etc, although that's probably not going to happen until you get very comfortable with the fight.