Suh

[ciggy]

The funny thing is Suh is apparently supposed to be a really nice guy, but something happens to his composure in games or something.

A lot of pro athletes have a totally difference personality on the field/court. Suh is very smart guy, and one of the nicest folks you can meet. He's a maniac on the field and does stupid shit all the time. I really REALLY like the guy, but he fucked himself on this one. 3-5 games and a big old 100k fine. That fake excuse will hurt him, makes folks lose faith in him.

I was in a turkey coma and didn't get to see the game, but from what I did catch between nodding off it seemed like the Packers had them backed up and just kicked the shit out of them, Suh got right pissed and went the wrong way with it.

[zro1021]

Yes, Suh overreacted and should be fined for what he did, but anyone who think hes just an a-hole need to relax. Did GB need Suh out of the game to win? no but I would sure as hell want to keep him away from my franchise quarterback while on an undefeated run. I'm sure the packers were giving Suh an earfull all day and the guard does kinda have his arm wrapped around Suh's while he is trying to get up.


Also CMON MAN! he is young and part of the newer generation, overreacting is what they do.

[Northern Goblin]

If you are a detroit fan, I do not expect you to side against suh. But watch him and his team play, he is dirty.

I'm neutral in this being an Oakland fan, but honestly anyone who makes any deal of the helmet is chasing after nothing, those helmets are designed to protect against shock and force, the weak push down (and come on admit that was weak, if it was with any force there'd be helmet marks in the turf) wouldn't do squat.

The stamp is the outright problem, he's manned up to it now (which he should have done sooner) but violent conduct with intent to harm in any matter can borderline criminal assault. Three games in most other sports (heck it's been longer in some for more severe cases) is the standard penalty. Moreso apart from being punished for the act, sportsmen and women are rolemodels and their behaviour is meant to set an example, incidents like that are the things you don't want kids copying.


Yes ironic this coming from a Raiders fan, but I don't tolerate violent conduct from players of sport teams I support, or any other, it has no place in sport.



Edit: Just realised I didn't answer your question from the quote above. As they go down Smith's arm is locked around Suh's and is over the top, after that #63 has come in from behind and has his arms down on Suh's shoulders. If he is trying to jam his helmet into the turf, he won't be able to get much force behind it due to his arm being restrained, if he is trying to get up he's entangled and hardly given room to move. Either way it's irrelevant in the bigger picture.

[mrbadxampl]

I was in a turkey coma and didn't get to see the game

you were in a turkey coma... and missed the first game? wut?

seriously, though... he did what he did, he knew it, he denied it. THAT is what gets -50 DKP in my book. just say it straight from the beginning (maybe something like "yeah I lost it a little and tossed a foot at him [it wasn't much of a stomp, really. off-balance and leaning away from the dude] and I was wrong to do so")

to be fair, it should have been flagged both ways, the GB dude dragged him to the ground.

[Elbren]

Wow, I am completely astounded by some of the responses in this thread.

No one is 'holding him down'. 62 is laying almost face down; the only thing keeping him from being on his stomach is his shoulder. Suh clearly drives his head into the ground multiple times. 63 isn't 'holding him down' either. The guy was basically trying to play peacemaker. He's trying to get Suh to get up off of 62. Even when Suh is up, 63 has his hands up in the air, trying to keep people from fighting. The only reason Suh even get's off 62 in the first place is because 70 comes rushing in and pushes him off (something 63 should have been doing).

As for the kick, he clearly looks down right at 62 before he does it.

He should easily get at least a 2 game suspension for this, though I could also see a 'season ending' suspension since there are only 5 games left.

[Twiddly]

No offense, but if you consider that "DRIVING HIS HEAD INTO THE GROUND" then you probably should watch soccer or something instead of football :P He is barely tapping on his head. Working at a group home where we have to have three staff for every person, I get beat more then that on a daily basis on my job..he is hardly doing anything at all until the kick.

With that said, he should have a 1-2 game suspension.

[Northern Goblin]

Elbren, your gif comes in 4 seconds too soon, the arm is locked around Suh's.

Stop making a deal over the head issue, it's nothing, it's hardly the most gentlemenly of actions but it's not something dangerous nor harmful. The stamp is, and shouldn't be sidetracked by anything else, arguing over the headpush vs held down is utterly irrelevant, if the stamp wasn't there at all, I question if anyone would even pick up on it.

[Elbren]

Elbren, your gif comes in 4 seconds too soon, the arm is locked around Suh's.

Stop making a deal over the head issue, it's nothing, it's hardly the most gentlemenly of actions but it's not something dangerous nor harmful. The stamp is, and shouldn't be sidetracked by anything else, arguing over the headpush vs held down is utterly irrelevant, if the stamp wasn't there at all, I question if anyone would even pick up on it.

You can start the clip where ever you like. Here's one that shows the full play (replay of the foul starts at the 50 sec. mark). The guard doesn't 'have his arm locked around Suh's'; it's under Suh's arm and his hand is up above Suh's shoulder (52-ish sec. mark). Suh starts going down and pulls/throws the guard down by the back of his jersey/pads. At that point the Guard is face down. Suh immediately moves his hand up from the jersey/pads to the guards helmet and pushes his face into the dirt.

Sorry, but the 'Suh was just trying to get up' story is horse sh*t. He flipped around and basically sits on the guards back, pushing his face into the dirt a couple more times. (53 sec. mark) Again, if you watch, the only time Suh makes a move to get off is when 70 comes rushing in to knock him off. Funny how he's 'locked up and can't move' but can suddenly start to stand up when he see's 70 come running in at him. Also, for all of the 'he was held down' people, you can clearly see when Suh sits up that the guards arm is no longer anywhere near Suh's. It's bent and under Suh (58 sec. mark); basically in Suh's stomach/chest region. He's trying to get Suh off of him.

The part that people don't seem to get is that it wasn't the fact he pushed the guards face into the ground multiple times ... it wasn't that he was basically doing it while sitting on the guys back ... it wasn't even the kick. It's the fact that he did ALL OF IT. The helmet thing might/might not have got him a flag (that's iffy; linemen seem to get away w/ stuff alot on the line of scrimmage), the kick most definitely would have. But the two together is just completely inexcusable. The worst part is he didn't even apologize. The guy (like a lot of players sadly) just refuses to own up to his mistakes. He's like an 8 year old; it's always someone else's fault. Funny how now, he's suddenly apologizing and saying he's wrong ... right as his team basically apologizes for him and condemns what he did.

I was a huge Suh fan, but this is the last straw for me (you can only defend a guy so many times) and I'd be shocked if he didn't walk away w/ a suspension after this. The guy is a repeat offender and just had a meeting w/ the comissioner a month ago. Seriously, how dirty do you need to be for Rodney Harrison (of all people) to call you dirty? Even Matt Slauson, a guy that used to play w/ him, thinks something should be done about it.

Somebody needs to get him under control, because he's trying to hurt people. It's one thing to be an incredibly physical player and a tenacious player, but it's another thing to set out to end that guy's career.

----

"I have no idea what the league can do, because apparently what they're doing now isn't working," said Slauson, who acknowledged -- but wouldn't elaborate -- on some negative Suh incidents he knew of in college. "I don't know what's going on with him, but something isn't right. I mean, they've fined him out the butt, but he still doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. I don't know what they're going to have to do, but something has to be done."

----

There's a lot of people in Nebraska that aren't very pleased right now ... The University of Nebraska has always prided itself on producing high-character guys, and (he isn't one of them).

[Badpaladin]

Looking at the play, initially Suh is having trouble getting up. Based on how dirty that game was before this event, he probably thought he was getting held down even though it was just a case of tangled arms and legs after they both pretty much fell on each other (Suh didn't rip him down so much as tumble over with both of their arms locked). After that he pretty much lost it, though. It would be one thing if he was intentionally holding or something and playing dirty on plays, but I'm thinking he just can't control his emotions. Not good.

[Elbren]

Just realized Detroits last game is against the Packers at Lambeau.

Makes me think there's more of a chance of him getting a longer suspension. Obviously Green Bay fans aren't the battery-throwing type (I'm looking at you Philly), but is that really a game you want Suh in if you're the league? Last week of the season, Packers could potentially be playing for an undefeated season and there will probably be multiple games that decide the full playoff picture for teams.

If you're the league, do you really want all of the hype (any of it for that matter) instead to be around Ndamukong Suh and what he might do in Lambeau?

[Deleted]

The helmet issue is borderline unsportsmanlike conduct, and you can see the referee is concerned with trying to stop that. The kick however is pretty disgraceful, and could have led to a broken arm.

[Nofaith]

He was wrong. It's not the most flagrant foul ever but he'll get a few.

More importantly though I think he needs something over his head to keep it from acting this way in the future. With the history he supposedly has I think it's important for player safety concerns that he get a fat year long suspension if it happens again, this time though 3 games because of the prior history of the team this year and unruly conduct.

[dave214]

The helmet issue is borderline unsportsmanlike conduct, and you can see the referee is concerned with trying to stop that. The kick however is pretty disgraceful, and could have led to a broken arm.

I agree...he wouldn't even have been penalized for pushing his head down. Have any of you had your head held or pushed down while in a full football get up, it isn't very pleasant. Not really a "dirty" thing but just kind of dickish. The kick is what did him in, if he didn't kick the guy, he wouldn't have been flagged and he would be playing next week.

[willowe]

Lions' Fan.

Sadly a Lions' fan.

he got what he deserved.

[Amsden]

a dirty player made a dirty play why would anyone be surprised by this? It was really only a matter of time before he got ejected.

[Roose]

Suh got caught. He is still young and not used to playing against other badasses. Pretty much every good lineman out there has thrown more than their fair share of dirty blows, they just know how to do it better.

Suh is not even the dirtiest guy on that line.

I think it looks like he is pulling his kick. Either because he realized how stupid he was being or he did not want to hurt him. Bonehead move.

[cherb]

Exactly. If you watch interior line play at all, you know ALL SORTS of stuff goes on that the cameras never catch. The idea that the lineman full on bear hugged him on the ground and NOTHING HAPPENED to him is freaking ridiculous. How did he get away with impeding Suh's getting up without at least getting a delay of game flag???

When guys like Suh say they feel like they're being picked on, the footage sometimes backs them up. This is a case like that. He never gets to the point of stepping on the guard if the Refs did their damn job and stepped in immediately and flagged the Green Bay guard for the blatant foul.

Further, I'd wager, the Green Bay line was doing all sorts of shit the entire game. There is NO WAY anyone's gonna convince me that the same guy who was holding him on the ground and tackled him to the ground (what? no holding penalty? guess it was after the play...) was a paragon of fair play for the first three quarters. That's complete bullshit.

Suh's a beast and teams have been doing everything short of bringing brass knuckles to stop the guy. Yes, that includes all sorts of underhanded stuff.

Now listen, I think he stomped on the guy. And that was wrong. I think he shoulda gotten a personal foul and a warning and then been fined by the league. I also think the guard shoulda been flagged for delay of game and flagged for a personal foul for instigating.

I've been a moderator for a slightly well known (among sports journalists) football forum and I use video to grade defensive lineman. Suh received my highest grade ever. What that means, though, is that I'm used to watching interior line play while others are watching the ball.

So, while some are "appalled", maybe if they knew what actually went on in the interior of most offensive/defensive lines on EVERY stinkin' play, they wouldn't be so quick to judge.

Frankly, I'd rather they just play straight up. I don't like it. I don't like what Suh did, but I don't like what the GB guard did, either. And I don't like that they resort to anything less than skill, technique, play design, execution and desire to win. All this underhanded crap under the pile to "get a guy to take himself out of the game" like what Suh did... and he called it just right... is really an admission that GB didn't have enough faith in their OL, their OL blocking schemes, their play calling, their execution or desire and instead decided to rely on this.

That's the road of Champions? That's what we need to teach our kids? Hey kids? Don't work your asses off to win. Just piss the other guy off so bad that he gets himself thrown out and win by attrition. It's a shitty way to win and Mike McCarthy should be just as ashamed as Suh and the GB guard.

Then again, most folks today believe if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying... so I'm kind of alone in thinking that HOW you win matters.

1st, if you honestly thought Green Bay needed him out to win, that's pretty hilarious. The fact that you said the GB player should get a holding penalty is pretty hilarious too and shows you don't know much about football. Suh is a good pass rusher, but Detroit was already on their way to losing the game. 2nd, if someone WAS holding him down, it's your job as a professional to walk away. The second you throw a stomp, the rules state its an automatic ejection from the game. Because someone else may have been acting unprofessional doesn't give you any right to try and hurt them like that. Stomping or throwing a punch is AUTOMATIC ejection, there is no personal foul and 15 yards, you are simply out of the game, thats the rules.

People instigate all the time in football, but it's the person who acts on it and trys to initiate violence that will ALWAYS get in trouble, no matter the situation. "He was holding my leg" is not reasoning to stomp someone. Green Bay didn't need him out to win, and Suh put himself out of the game and hurt his team, not the other way around. The game isn't about the things the ref's dont see, it's about what they see and what Suh did was out of line 100%, and they caught him. You can't give people lenience based on things that may have happened but no one saw.

[Mackeyser]

Firstly, I didn't say that GB needed to take Suh out to win. I said it was as shame that they resorted to those tactics. And if you watch the game, you will see that they were gang wrestling and holding Suh in a VERY transparent way. They were NOT playing a pure game plan. Part of their game planning HAD to be to use those underhanded measures and there is simply no way around it. The film validates that statement.

I watched a breakdown on NFL network and one of the DL analysts showed the footage where GB guard Dietrich-Smith pushes Suh over backwards AFTER the play is whistled dead, Suh is on the ground on his knees and Dietrich-Smith is continuing to block downward. Had Suh not twisted out of that, he could have sustained a career ending back injury. The back flex, IF YOU WATCH, was really, really bad. Suh didn't react to all that holding and wrestling. It was Dietrich-Smith blocking down on Suh flexing his back that caused the bad reaction.

What I don't understand is how Dietrich-Smith hasn't been fined at the very least for the provocation. I mean, the guy, Dietrich-Smith engaged in after the whistle activity with possible intent to injure. Yet he gets away Scott free.

And THAT was what got me. I think GB is a better overall team and would likely have won the game WITH Suh. What I protest rather strongly is anyone calling Dietrich-Smith a victim (he instigated, he's no victim AND his instigation was likely to cause serious injury.). Further, I protest the idea that provocation is a viable or reasonable game strategy as well as that in order to promote game flow, a certain amount of henkiness is allowed with interior line play.

The game should be called straight up for every player, every play, without fail and without exception.

What Suh did was wrong. I won't make excuses for him. However, I also won't pretend Dietrich-Smith is a victim when he's part of the problem and I won't ignore all the garbage that is allowed with interior line play and act like these underhanded acts are okay. They aren't okay, either. Wrong is wrong. If the ref or line judge needs to throw 30 flags on 30 plays to get folks to play by the rules, then do it. It's up to the teams to play by the rules, not the league to reduce enforcement.

And I stand by my statement that if the refs had called Dietrich-Smith for his hold (you can clearly see his arm wrapped around Suh) and stepped in when they should have in an already chippy game, this wouldn't have been an issue. Again, doesn't absolve Suh, but Suh should never have been in that position in the first place.

[Racerover]

Was a huge fan of his when he played for my NCAA Nebraska Husker team. Unfortunately, you can't escape what's clearly a stomp. The man gets wayyyy into the game and made a mistake and it's going to cost him.

[Northy]

Suh wasn't being held down. He just lost his composure like he always does. Warrants a 2 game suspension. End of story.

Go Pack Go! (and please tighten up your defense packers!)