Sell me on SW:TOR

[A Challenger!]

@ Anoitkos: You've explained exactly how I feel about this game. It's a good start to what could be a good game. However, unlike you, I decided that my beta experience was good enough to satisfy my urge to play this game, I will not be buying it after launch. For me, I feel as though there are too many systems in the game that need to be over hauled and completely re done for a variety of reasons.





Unfortunately, I have come to believe that this has become the motto @ BioWare. 'It's Star Wars, we can copy wow's talent system from patch 3.0 almost word for word and people will like it.'

Among many other features that are all too similar to out dated systems from wow. To me it really feels like playing wow from late Burning Crusade/early Wrath of the Lich King, minus the smooth character controls and combat in conjunction with a fully customizable UI.

Everything I have made bold is so wrong it is sickening. Ignorance, thy name is Eroginous.

Why you keep comparing it to WoW, when there is no resemblance at all, I have no idea. The talent systems are different, the combat systems are different, the game is nothing like WoW. Matter of fact, it is smoother, better looking, and overall a less rigid game than WoW.

I am not bashing WoW, unlike you, who see's fit to tear SWTOR apart when all you have done is tried the beta, I am just saying that SWTOR is a smoother experience, and in no way shape or form similar to WoW. You can hate on it and say that Star Wars is a beaten dead horse all you wish, that would be an arguable statement, however, to say SWTOR is similar to WoW is nothing short of your own ignorance.

Going by all the things you have said, Everquest must also be like WoW too, right? Because clearly, Everquest copies W- Oh, wait...

[KaynDarksbane]

Everything I have made bold is so wrong it is sickening. Ignorance, thy name is Eroginous.

Why you keep comparing it to WoW, when there is no resemblance at all, I have no idea. The talent systems are different, the combat systems are different, the game is nothing like WoW. Matter of fact, it is smoother, better looking, and overall a less rigid game than WoW.

I am not bashing WoW, unlike you, who see's fit to tear SWTOR apart when all you have done is tried the beta, I am just saying that SWTOR is a smoother experience, and in no way shape or form similar to WoW. You can hate on it and say that Star Wars is a beaten dead horse all you wish, that would be an arguable statement, however, to say SWTOR is similar to WoW is nothing short of your own ignorance.

Going by all the things you have said, Everquest must also be like WoW too, right? Because clearly, Everquest copies W- Oh, wait...

I agree with you sentiment, but SWTOR IS very similar to WoW. And most other MMORPGs. That isn't inherently a bad thing, as WoW is a very successful and popular game.

There are certainly strong differences between the two games, as there are between all games in the genre, but in essence they are very similar.

And yes, WoW copied a lot from EQ... cause EQ did well.

[Deadlycaster]

It's Star Wars?

this was pretty much enough for me, i love the star wars franchise
also got to play the game and it blew my mind.

[A Challenger!]

I agree with you sentiment, but SWTOR IS very similar to WoW. And most other MMORPGs. That isn't inherently a bad thing, as WoW is a very successful and popular game.

There are certainly strong differences between the two games, as there are between all games in the genre, but in essence they are very similar.

And yes, WoW copied a lot from EQ... cause EQ did well.

Thank you. This is my point entirely. This is what MMO's do, they "borrow" ideas, but the framework is always different. Hell, even Rift which blatantly challenged WoW with a similar design was different at its base. The point being, this name-calling of "your MMO stole from my MMO" is absolutely childish, as all MMO's will always borrow from another in some way shape or form.

In a way, it is unfortunate a original idea is so hard to come by, but you cannot complain when an idea is successful.

[Xecks]

star wars the old republic is a game that has a great story (8 different stories all fully voiced along with special missions you get from companions). it also has slower combat allowing for more chess like pvp and pve. the end game might not be up to your standards if you play wow but they have months to fix that before anyone gets to full endgame mode. the game has potential to be a great game it just needs some polish and it will be commanding 3.5 million players in no time. you will have fun at least for 50 lvls. try it and see!

[Prag]

Does it intrigue you at all?

If Yes, then play it. It's $60 and you get a month to try it free without a subscription. (Regardless, the story work alone is worth the $60).

If No, then don't.

It's the games job to sell itself to you.

[gherkin]

This is what sold me, and it is entirely my own experience with my history of UO, WoW, and single player gaming and may not reflect yours.

I roll a caster just like my Warlock to minimize the learning curve. I start playing - it's World of Warcraft. The keybindings, the formulas, the spells... it's all the same. My class is like a paladin/warlock crossover, and while interesting, it doesn't really sell me. The hearthstone is neat, but not game changing. The companion stuff is fun. The quests are much more engaging, but I was thinking "This feels like a single player game I won't enjoy when I'm done my story."

Then I hit level 10, left the starter zone and queued for my first dungeon. It's a 4 man experience but we can only find 3, so we figure "why the hell not."

This is spoiler free as much as I am able.

This is what happened in point form:
We storm through the instance, taking out small groups of enemies using environmental things (explosive barrels).
The enemies use cover to attack us instead of just swarm around the other players
I am healing when I realize that we're two dps and myself as a healer.
I also realize that my companion is there and theirs are not.
I clue in to the fact that my companion is hitting as hard as they are, and holding aggro, and has more hp.

I realize that I am both healer and tank at the same god damn time.

We head down to the basement.
Boarding shuttles (pointy nose to puncture hull) burst through the wall, killing friendly npcs.
The nose opens and enemies jump out. Explosions everywhere.
We rush the boss, almost dying to these explosive adds.
I'm healing and tanking and kiting with follow/attack commands to minimize damage taken while the boss is casting.

This continues on the same scale for 20 minutes. My eyes were locked on the screen. I was sold at this point.



Compare this to WoW, any given dungeon. In WoW there is no urgency. There is no need to go faster than you are except to fulfill some sort of "minimum time spent in dungeons" quota. There is no plot other than NPC's yelling at you and you telling them "I'm ready." There is no alterations to the events based on your choices in dialogue.

I would gladly pay to play a game that WoW needs to learn from, even if I eventually go back.



Edit:
Then I rolled an Imperial Agent, and while I skipped most of the story to get as far as I possibly could, the energy mechanic hooked me as well. It's non-linear regeneration where you are punished for spending too much too fast, but rewarded IMMENSELY for being conservative. This is part of the skill aspect of WoW that has been removed over the years or at least diluted.

---------- Post added 2011-12-08 at 09:33 AM ----------

And my apologize to the fanboys and girls in this thread for my constant comparisons to wow. I did not play any of the recent fad-mmo's and thus only have my experiences there to draw from.

[Deleted]

A little background first of all. I have played wow since release, and have raided and PVPed pretty much for the whole hog. I've done some hardcore endgame raiding, but around three or four months ago I decided I'd had enough. My character was stuck on a server I didn't want to be on, and I'm not prepared to pay silly money for faction changes, server transfers etc just for the privilege of playing their game. I was already paying enough in my view. Anyway, I've played all of the major MMOs since WOW was released but never spent more than a month on any of them. I always went back to WOW.

I played SWTOR on both of the last two beta tests prior to release. I'm impressed. Now, I'm not going to fill your head up with ideas that everything is new and its going to be the best game ever ever or anything like that, but there is enough real character in this game to make me *think* that it might be a winner and a game I play for more than the free month.

My first beta weekend filled my head with doubts. There was a degree of lag due to the amount of people online, and I found the combat system less than exhilirating. It seemed clunky, and had irritating components to it. For example, when you run away from a mob, you cannot preset the camera to look backwards. The act of running resets the camera automatically, and I found this stunningly annoying, and I still do. I do not think I am being silly, and have just missed the setting in 'preferences' but I may be wrong. Anyway, it didn't feel perfect, and that weekend I only played a few hours. After my game time, I really thought I was finished with MMOs, for good.

However, I got a second selection for beta the following week and everything has changed. This time I selected a bounty hunter and I had a ball. I didn't go hardcore at it or anything, and made it to level 13, but I am loving what is happening here. The questing really is, as everyone is saying, genuinely engaging. The choices are real and you feel that they matter. For example, just by pretending to an assassination target that I would let him live if he gave me loads of credits. He did, but I killed him anyway, and took his head to my initial employer. Great fun, and there is nothing in any other MMO that compares to this type of fun, at least in my experience.

The companion idea seems incredibly well thought out, and I love how crafting works. I didn't delve too deeply but I am intrigued by how you can delegate all sorts of tasks to your buddy. The talent trees look OK, I didn't spend too much time looking to be honest, and I still have my concerns regarding the clunkiness of combat and the UI, but overall, I'm incredibly excited for the launch.

Normally, I despise questing and get bored fast when I'm levelling, but there seems far more depth to that process here than in any other MMO that I have played. You can be noble and good, you can be neutral, you can be random, or you can be downright nasty, or even murderously brutal. Its fun to have that choice for once in an MMO environment, without having to just roleplay it.

I pre-ordered after this weeks beta test ended, and although I do not want to get my hopes up, I am far more impressed with the BETA of this game, than I have been with the completed versions of any of Warhammer, Aion, Rift, Conan etc. It looks like its going to be very good, and only time will tell if its great.

[Deleted]

This is what sold me, and it is entirely my own experience with my history of UO, WoW, and single player gaming and may not reflect yours.

I roll a caster just like my Warlock to minimize the learning curve. I start playing - it's World of Warcraft. The keybindings, the formulas, the spells... it's all the same. My class is like a paladin/warlock crossover, and while interesting, it doesn't really sell me. The hearthstone is neat, but not game changing. The companion stuff is fun. The quests are much more engaging, but I was thinking "This feels like a single player game I won't enjoy when I'm done my story."

Then I hit level 10, left the starter zone and queued for my first dungeon. It's a 4 man experience but we can only find 3, so we figure "why the hell not."

This is spoiler free as much as I am able.

This is what happened in point form:
We storm through the instance, taking out small groups of enemies using environmental things (explosive barrels).
The enemies use cover to attack us instead of just swarm around the other players
I am healing when I realize that we're two dps and myself as a healer.
I also realize that my companion is there and theirs are not.
I clue in to the fact that my companion is hitting as hard as they are, and holding aggro, and has more hp.

I realize that I am both healer and tank at the same god damn time.

We head down to the basement.
Boarding shuttles (pointy nose to puncture hull) burst through the wall, killing friendly npcs.
The nose opens and enemies jump out. Explosions everywhere.
We rush the boss, almost dying to these explosive adds.
I'm healing and tanking and kiting with follow/attack commands to minimize damage taken while the boss is casting.

This continues on the same scale for 20 minutes. My eyes were locked on the screen. I was sold at this point.



Compare this to WoW, any given dungeon. In WoW there is no urgency. There is no need to go faster than you are except to fulfill some sort of "minimum time spent in dungeons" quota. There is no plot other than NPC's yelling at you and you telling them "I'm ready." There is no alterations to the events based on your choices in dialogue.

I would gladly pay to play a game that WoW needs to learn from, even if I eventually go back.



Edit:
Then I rolled an Imperial Agent, and while I skipped most of the story to get as far as I possibly could, the energy mechanic hooked me as well. It's non-linear regeneration where you are punished for spending too much too fast, but rewarded IMMENSELY for being conservative. This is part of the skill aspect of WoW that has been removed over the years or at least diluted.

---------- Post added 2011-12-08 at 09:33 AM ----------

And my apologize to the fanboys and girls in this thread for my constant comparisons to wow. I did not play any of the recent fad-mmo's and thus only have my experiences there to draw from.

Well i didn't expect to see you in these forums gherkin XD.

Yeah i loved my time in beta. Going on from gherkin said too it becomes alot more of a sociable game after the prologue tbh. Having quests that are difficult enough to have sevral players with you and also have your buddys form into the story and quest conversations was imense.

Allot of the class emchanics where quite punishing i felt which i loved. You have to think about which move your gunna use especially with no AA you gotta put out as much as you can with limited resources. The difficulty level in TOR was what suprised me the most.

---------- Post added 2011-12-08 at 06:00 PM ----------

@ Anoitkos: You've explained exactly how I feel about this game. It's a good start to what could be a good game. However, unlike you, I decided that my beta experience was good enough to satisfy my urge to play this game, I will not be buying it after launch. For me, I feel as though there are too many systems in the game that need to be over hauled and completely re done for a variety of reasons.





Unfortunately, I have come to believe that this has become the motto @ BioWare. 'It's Star Wars, we can copy wow's talent system from patch 3.0 almost word for word and people will like it.'

Among many other features that are all too similar to out dated systems from wow. To me it really feels like playing wow from late Burning Crusade/early Wrath of the Lich King, minus the smooth character controls and combat in conjunction with a fully customizable UI.

Unfortunetly although while i played WoW i loved the game for so long this is what WoW has done to the MMO community. To say this game has stolen things from WoW is complete ignorance. WoW was not original. Sure it's bought sevral things to the genre that are orignal (although none of the things you mentioned where original to WoW) just like TOR brings things that are original. You are talking about basic MMO mechanics that modern main stream MMO's use, so it's not stealing things from "WoW". For about the 9999999999 time WoW also used/uses things from other games, this game has not copyed from WoW. It's used basic MMO functions the genre shares it's ideas around. Give it a few years i would imagine most MMO's will have voice dialogue for quests.

[gherkin]

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised to see parts of zones (very small parts, but there none-the-less) as "Higher Difficulty"

It's like Elwynn Forest, except instead of Hogger being the only difficult gnoll in the area, every single one of them is difficult and Hogger just has a few more HP and an interesting attack. It makes the gameplay compelling while at the same time making you avoid that area. There's a lot to be said for how innaccessibility affects the psyche. "Don't go in there" compells you to do so, and gives you a primal sense of territory - they are here and I want that land back. Challenge accepted.

[Fermin]

You're going to have to be like the rest of us and just take the plunge, man. It's not like the rest of us were promised free pie and naked ladies if it turns out we don't like it.

wait... What?! They did too promise pie!

[Geekzilla]

I think the early access is weighted so that the earlier you preordered, the earlier you will be invited to join the game. So if early access is important to you, be aware you might preorder now, and still not get in.

Not exactly, all preorders will get into early access, but not all of them get 7 days. In fact, I wouldn't count on getting more than one or two days at this point, though the devs haven't said how fast they're going to try to get everyone in yet, so it could be that everyone that preorders now still gets 3 or 4 days of early access. We don't know, and the devs aren't sure so they're not saying. You know how us gamers react when our expectations get broken, so that's probably a good idea.

[Marema]

Well I can tell you for certain that I had no interest in purchasing the game until the weekend after Thanksgiving when I went to a buddies house to check it out on beta and have decided I will give it a shot. Now, I didn't do any of their version of dungeons, raids or pvp so I can't comment on what that is like.

Overall, its like wow in space; the UI is similar, the quests were similar, the "feel" if you know what I mean was similar. I'll play it and see what the rest of the game is like before I decide if I'll conentrate on that for a while or stick with Wow.

[gherkin]

The problem is that WoW has done everything possible and implemented the best systems they can.

Bioware doesn't have the expertise, but can research alternatives. I'm sad that they came up with so many similar concepts and implementation details, but at the same time this is good business practice - if your competitor does something good, you have to do the same or fall behind.

It just proves that WoW is the best in the business because they are the best in the business, not because of some philosophical "catering to casuals" or "comical graphics." If you think Bioware just copied Blizzard and tweaked a bit, then you have a lot to learn about economics and business.

I refuse to believe the entire team at Bioware said "Let's just copy WoW" instead of "Well, we've done our due diligence and researched every alternative, but it looks like WoW has the best _____ again guys. Sorry to make you develop the same thing, but I'm sure you'll do it equally as well if not better."

[Gobsplosion]

I saw the article saying about the early access, and I see on the website if you pre-order now you can still get in up to 5 days early.

I have an alienware laptop shipping in about the same time, and I wanna get more info about this game.

I will still play WoW, SW:ToR for an off project.

I was initally deterred from looking at anything ToR because of the fanboyism some people were expressing in the WoW forum (im not speaking to most of you, honestly the ones saying the day ToR launches WoW burns a fiery death.... -.- both games will exist)

I started to peak a slight interest playing my first RPG in years (since FFX) in Skyrim, I had fun, loved the style, and from what I understand (please dont crucify me for saying this) it seems like ToR would resemble skyrim, in the sense of open world, voice quests and a real RPG feel.

I also had some when I found out my old guild (one im still in on some chars) was planning on making a ToR guild, and they always tell me I have a home with em, and maybe ToR is the time to take the offer.



What I want, is some non-BIASED info about the game, and maybe some noob guides where I can read up on.


Thanks for your time.

I tried it during beta OP and I have to say I was not all that impressed with it, I felt like some people just talk the game up because they want wow to die so badly and I haven't really figured out why yet, other than wow has become a very mainstream game now and it seems like people like to jump on the "Im not mainstream" bandwagon. I don't really know though, the story part as far as the single player aspect goes was good and up to par with bioware's usual games, but then again that is where the problem for me lies, it is no different from every single bioware game I have ever played, lots of talking, 3 choices to make - 1 good, 1 bad, 1 neutral generally.

Maybe I am just tired of the same game that bioware makes every single time but I have to admit I wasn't all that impressed with it.

[Deleted]

Thanks for your time.

Sell yourself!

Just play WoW and be happy. We will miss you over in tor but somehow surely find a way to go on with our virtual lives without your contribution to it.

---------- Post added 2011-12-08 at 07:39 PM ----------

It just proves that WoW is the best in the business because they are the best in the business, not because of some philosophical "catering to casuals" or "comical graphics." If you think Bioware just copied Blizzard and tweaked a bit, then you have a lot to learn about economics and business.

it just proves that Blizzard has the perfect product to draw in the masses (= mostly casuals). Obviously every developer wants to attract as many people as possible to their game, if only to satisfy their publishers and shareholders. hence the copy&paste.

Similar to how artists like Justin Bieber are among "the best in the business because they are the best in the business"...we are not talking about sophisticated musicianship here, intellectual aestethics or even pure talent - we are talking marketability, popularity, revenue .

[Deleted]

Someone said on these forums a while ago that players are jumping the gun to think that this game should bring something out dramatically different and completly original using this MMO system. For somethign quite different companys are gunna have to really look into a new system whether it would be end game or the genral way you play your chacter, but he said your gunna need a new system. He got flamed for saying that.

But i have to agree with him. This game is using the current general MMO system as far as mechanics are concerned, that we have seen for the past 6 or so years. If not longer. So as gherkin and xolotl said there gunna use stuff that WoW use or has devolped. Having said that there are new dynamics that have been devolped by Bioware which i think are really nice.

I don't think as players we can critise any MMO being released in the present too much for being too much like the other. We've seen sevral recently released using sevral similar systems, but at the end of the day how do we know what we want when this 'new original' system hasn't even come to the market yet. Players can want new stuff in a MMO but players don't tend to think up completly new systems to how these MMO's can work. Ofc you can hate that it uses certain features but it dosen't make it a bad game and we should understand why they have used these features.

[nativetrash]

lightsabers. that is all.

[leafs43]

SWTOR is fun for the story.


You actually have to do less quests but a lot of that extra time is filled with dialog and story.


Flashpoints i.e. instances are pretty cool from what I have experienced because they are basically interactive stories.

[Deleted]

I keep trying to find reasons why I should buy this game, but there's nothing particularly interesting about it. It's not good, it's not bad, it's just "meh". Most of the praise seems to revolve around "awesome story", which means it's effectively a single player game that costs $15 a month. Apart from that, I can't find anything exciting or interesting about SWTOR. There's absolutely nothing "cool" about this game, unless I'm missing something.