Should GW2 have raids?

[fishious]

EverQuest who had some ridiculously challenging non-instanced world bosses that would make most of WoW heroic raids look like a hogger raid. If Anet wanted a challenging world boss in GW2, they could make one. It was possible 13 years ago when I first started playing EverQuest, but apparently people who have been brainwashed by the idea of instanced raids forgot about wiping over and over to content that required over 70 people in an open world setting with coordination, not just zerg-fests. Either that or they never played EQ and have no idea what challenging world bosses actually look like.

Thank you. I've been waiting for someone to bring up EQ. They did open raid bosses amazingly well. As an old EQ raid leader I always felt so accomplished when we managed to take down the bosses because it took the coordination of 60-70 people to take down that boss. The EQ raiding system from launch to Planes of Power (that's 5 expansions of raids including release) was all done in an open world setting, and you didn't dare run around and try to grief people's raids because if you died you would have to run back and get your corpse to regain all of your equipment. None of this ghost mode, no-mob kind of business either. Your character came back to life at the nearest city and had to either get a rez, or run back to where you died though all of the enemies.

If open raids could be done well that far back then there is no reason that it can't be done now.

[Lillpapps]

I havent read the last 10 or so pages so I might type something that has already been said.

I would not like to have raids in GW2 that follows the WoW model. I just dont think it would be fun without tanks / healers. However I would really like to see some of the exploration dungeons to be really long (hours+ ) and with epic art that you can play with friends etc. I rather spend 3+ hours in a dungeon with a lot of bosses and epic art instead of playing 5+ different dungeons with half assed art.

[Lothaeryn]

I havent read the last 10 or so pages so I might type something that has already been said.

I would not like to have raids in GW2 that follows the WoW model. I just dont think it would be fun without tanks / healers. However I would really like to see some of the exploration dungeons to be really long (hours+ ) and with epic art that you can play with friends etc. I rather spend 3+ hours in a dungeon with a lot of bosses and epic art instead of playing 5+ different dungeons with half assed art.

I have to agree on tha art thing, for some reason I felt in wrath/cata that the dungeons had something off about them. Something about the gradual increase in polygon count in textures added this "excessively animated" look, I can barely even describe the aesthetic since I've only encountered it in WoW, but some the Wrath/Cata textures seemed too cartoonishly stylized for the engine that WoW was built on. Sure, WoW is meant to be cartoony, but I think the new polygon count gave the game and all of the art after wrath a surreal look that looked like it was borderline Warcraft style art and an art style of a completely different game.

I know my post may not make sense and is a bit off topic, but I just needed to get it off my chest, I just hope GW2 doesn't run into an issue smilar to that with gradual artistic upgrades

[Squirrelbanes]

The story mode dungeons are supposed to be wonderfully artistic, with the GW2 art style appearing throughout.
Can't wait for 'em

[Lucky_]

You have yet to adequately explain why I (not specifically) cannot have my cake and eat it too.

According to laws of physics, same matter cannot occupy two places at the same time.

[Squirrelbanes]

According to laws of physics, same matter cannot occupy two places at the same time.

Well, that's why laws are made to be broken. Obviously.
Enter GW2 a redefinition of what's possible.

[Lucky_]

Well, that's why laws are made to be broken. Obviously.
Enter GW2 a redefinition of what's possible.

Just remind them to not redefine law of gravity by accident. I don't want to suddenly fly into space, getting spaced is one of the more painful ways to die. Granted, everyone would die within minutes anyway as our sun would shut down, but we'd die of being spaced before the light from the sun stopped reaching us.

[Deleted]

Just remind them to not redefine law of gravity by accident. I don't want to suddenly fly into space, getting spaced is one of the more painful ways to die. Granted, everyone would die within minutes anyway as our sun would shut down, but we'd die of being spaced before the light from the sun stopped reaching us.

I do hope they'll stick to gravity, Skyrim was such a mess when it defied them.

[Sazasmash]

I am personally happy with 5 man instances and larger scale dynamic events. However I don't see why ArenaNet couldn't eventually make scaling dungeons possible with the technology they have for dynamic events.

I am sorry but because my account here is new I am unable to link anything specifically. The information I use in my speculations comes from reading the ArenaNet blog and interviews with GW2 developers. It could be outdated and I could be missing something that makes this impossible, but from what I have seen so far ArenaNet seems to have left themselves open for larger groups if they feel it works.

Already in place in GW2 is a system for scaling dynamic events. Devs have discussed the methods of scaling coming from not simply increasing health and damage of mobs in events (though I believe that is a part of it), but giving what in raiding terms could be called trash mobs a method of increasing wave amount. An increase in player amount during a dynamic event they discussed to defend a location from centaurs increases the amount spawning for the waves of mobs. The Brood Mother boss event was used as example as another way of scaling; an increase in player amount causes the Brood Mother to gain an AoE knockback, making her more effective against the group.

I don't see why future dungeons or even bonus mission packs like in GW couldn't apply this same technology. If the instances were designed to be open enough to fit 5 to let's say 30 people (a random cap, but you would need some kind of cap for the scaling) the devs could be creative with mobs that can utilize spawn points to increase amounts and boss mechanics scaling with the group size.

In dynamic events they employ a system that checks the participation of the players in the area constantly to prevent griefing. To me this checking system seems more difficult to implement than scaling health/damage of mobs, spawning more at a location (or even increasing spawn locations), and unlocking abilities in a boss skill pool. If multiple instances running of a dungeon doesn't allow for this on the fly event scaling, then it could even be possible to remove that and have the scaling happen at the initial zone in. Instances are great because you choose who you go with and a change in group size would mean doing the dungeon a man down or restarting, which if the technology doesn't allow constant scaling and instances to happen together isn't the worst trade off (imo) if you desire the ability to have larger groups.

The uniquely skinned items from dungeons are bought with tokens earned by completing the event in storymode for weapons and explorable mode for armor last I read. Dungeons implemented with the ability to freely scale 5 to X amount could have the exact same rewards in this manner. So yes, if you do the dungeons in the maximum group size or the minimum, you have the exact same rewards to look forward to. Larger groups wouldn't be for the joy of better loots but just because you and your friends number more than five and want to be able to schedule something to do together that is different from exploring the world and experiencing those events (or any of the other things to do in GW2). It adds another level of player choice in how they want to play that I would appreciate even if I didn't want to use it.

I think this is not only possible for ArenaNet to be exploring as an idea, but in their general spirit of GW2. It could even be they just want to make sure the non instanced parts of Tyria and its events are compelling enough to make players desire to be outside an instance before giving the freedom to explore larger instanced group sizes.

Of course this is all just fun speculation on my part and maybe there is a reason it isn't possible in a satisfying way that I don't see because I don't have the ability to do what they do. ArenaNet is interested in player feedback and tight lipped about features they don't feel are solid enough to share yet. It could be that free sized instanced grouping might make its way into GW2 later.

[Veldril]

According to laws of physics, same matter cannot occupy two places at the same time.

I guess you have never study quantum mechanic...

[Brewski]

NO! I hate raiding, if they implement instanced raids I will probably not buy the game. The thing that attracted me to GW2 is that its a large & expansive world and you feel like a hero ...killing the same bosses over and over will remind me of WoW & take away the magical feeling of what the game represents. GW2 said they wanted to make it more of an RPG and I think raids will fuckin' kill that idea.

[Zeek Daniels]

I think people are forgetting the fact that the Dynamic Events were nerfed for the demos. Not only that but people are going to have to figure out the strategy to beating these massive events. These arnt going to be zerg fests, you wont be able to just attack the main boss and forget about all the mobs killing all the defenses behind you.

Remember the huge rail gun in one of the fights? There is an event in which you escort a repair unit to that gun. What if the repair unit never makes it, That makes that event go up in difficulty because now the boss wont be stunned and lose chunks of health.

Also remember that not only the boss but his minions will gain new abilities to deal with more and more players who join.

If these events are easily beatable then the game will lose interest. The higher difficulty events should take a long time to figure out how to defeat, and even once you have learned they should still feel hard but rewarding when you beat them again.

btw back when i played rift at launch the rifts and invasion events were a joke, Those were zerg fests.

[Lucky_]

I guess you have never study quantum mechanic...

I actually have, at least up to principle of uncertainty and its derivatives like quantum tunneling. I don't recall anything that would allow for same matter to exist in two places at the same time, especially since that would violate one of the main laws of physics related to quantum physics, energy conservation principle.

[Newbryn]

After recently coming out of LFR a few moments ago my answer stands no GW2 should not have raids,nothing but an awful chaotic mess, two much group dependency and not much emphasis on the player.

[Zeek Daniels]

After recently coming out of LFR a few moments ago my answer stands no GW2 should not have raids,nothing but an awful chaotic mess, two much group dependency and not much emphasis on the player.

You do know that DE's will also be a chaotic mess where alot of the playerbase will see a big boss and attack that and only that when it spawns and ignore the rest of the things attacking or happening in the event.

[Craind]

You do know that DE's will also be a chaotic mess where alot of the playerbase will see a big boss and attack that and only that when it spawns and ignore the rest of the things attacking or happening in the event.

[Newbryn]

You do know that DE's will also be a chaotic mess where alot of the playerbase will see a big boss and attack that and only that when it spawns and ignore the rest of the things attacking or happening in the event.

I'm completely aware of DE's but you have to realize we are talking about 2 different styles of gameplay,DE's also have multiple objectives not just run around or group up till boss is dead,also was talking about my role in the group personally I didn't really matter just another dps.

[Zeek Daniels]

I'm completely aware of DE's but you have to realize we are talking about 2 different styles of gameplay,DE's also have multiple objectives not just run around or group up till boss is dead.

yes i know that too but were talking about humans here. How many times do you play games with objectives and yet you see people just follow the crowd? Even when you shout in chat instructions about where to go or what to do it gets ignored by a chunk of players and then you lose?

Trust me everyone on this forum who understands what a DE is will go around trying to make it succeed, but we are a minority and when players from other games come play this and do a DE and see a huge boss they wont care that an NPC is yelling "Help fortify the cannons so we can launch a counter attack" they will just ignore it and run up to the biggest mob they see and start attacking, And then its Monkey see Monkey do from there.

and btw Craind in a perfect world everyone will work together to complete a big DE and ArenaNet will look at what they created and smile. But this world isnt perfect you cant expect everyone to have the same mindset when playing any game. People will do their own thing sometimes for selfish reasons other times because they dont know anybetter and this my friend creates Chaos. Now when i say that i dont mean that the players wont succeed but they will have a harder time succeeding.

[Newbryn]

I do agree with you all the more reason to not have raids,at least instance ones. I feel DE's are more than enough for that,smaller groups equal better organization and synergy, everyone does their part no one get's carried and still end up with the better loot or w/e.

[Enosh]

If these events are easily beatable then the game will lose interest. The higher difficulty events should take a long time to figure out how to defeat, and even once you have learned they should still feel hard but rewarding when you beat them again.

btw back when i played rift at launch the rifts and invasion events were a joke, Those were zerg fests.

these events are designed around the idea of an unorganized pick up group defeating them, not around a dedicated focused team with vent, they would most probably be around LFR difficulty

The story mode dungeons are supposed to be wonderfully artistic, with the GW2 art style appearing throughout.
Can't wait for 'em

that doesn't make sense
of course a gw2 dungeon will have a gw2 art style...