Player mentality went where?

[VenomousCarnage]

This sentence here made your post, and value irrelevant. It's immature, and ridicilous to act like that. It's NOT hard to excell at this game, and you know it. You don't have to be a "uberpro" to throw the ball, and play like a real teamplayer in hutball. You don't have to play 24/7 to understand how basic PvPing works.

except I do know that people spend far too much time learning the ins and outs of a game, often times many make use of exploits, glitches and rediculously calculated routes to take. Then even worse is that many of these people who thrive on PVP to boost their weak self esteem pop a blood vessel when the "newbie" dosn't know all the pathetic things they learned in their 12 hour a day lifestyle.

People have these little "put up or shut up" fits over games like this really need to step back and realize it's just a game. They are not a better person for having 10000000000 honor points over anyone who has 0 honor points. Sadly with the way gaming has become these days many people do depend too much on these meaningful numbers because they are too busy plaything these games to strive for anything of real value in the real world.

Then they become the 28 year old who lives in their parents basement or some shitty junk apartment working at some dead end job just so they can pay for these games with no future ahead of them until they realize things like losing PVP matches are nothing to whine about.

people like to pretend competitive in games= competitive/successful in real life. I have never once seen an example of this and don't think I will.

[Krogh]

That is your personal opinion and the way you present it as a universal fact immediately lost all my respect and your post turned into a little whine fest.

I had my suspicions you were not worth the effort to listen to when you casually talked about playing for 12 hours in one day.

You are the problem, stop valuing your self-worth and time on a game.

I understand competition can be fun but when you open it up to just anyone vs. Anyone people get tired of playing against losers who do nothing but play the game in their sad pathetic life.

How i spend my life, time and Quallities are entirely up to me. I have a fine life. Im acceptable in school, i hang with my friends, Getting drunk every now and then, Yet i own devotion enoght for a game to sit down, and Focus on it for 12-15 hours straight. Its not hard. and thats my FUN. it happens once in a while, often with new games.. Most of the time, i use an hour, Maby four durin night time, after ive done my homework, On said game, Thats if, Im not chattign to friends, girls (omg i know yeah..) or the like.

And by all means, Its not my Opinion, Theres no opinion to be had, Are you actually telling me, You would enjoy playing a char, or lets say, 20 soccor games, where Your the only man out of elleven that actually runs around, Trying to score? And your Teammates Do stupid stuff like penalties or own goals?..

Stop taking me for something im not. Thank you.

An mmorpg is a competetive play, Its been from day one, Ive been playing them for 7 years for that reason. Competetive by blood. Everything i do, I strife to be the best at. Thats why i outburst, thats why i "Rage" as you call it, When Egotistic Player who thinks he owns a game and can make it something it isnt.

---------- Post added 2012-01-14 at 12:19 AM ----------

basically this.

When you are thrown into the mix with whoever at any time don't expect them to value the GAME as much as you do.

People are allowed to have other priorities when its an open game. Just because you can't stand your little ego being crushed in a game or because you arn't mindlessly stacking up pathetic points as much doesn't mean everyone else who plays SWTOR has to throw their life away and put their nose to the grindstone for an overall useless game.

Of course of course, Im all into Casualism. I LOVE IT. The more the marrier. But why cant they grasp the winner mentality of todays world? Idc if they are green geared, lvl 10, or lvl 50 full epic grandmaster, If they throw the ball when needed, Pushback when sought for, Call out for incommings, Heal, Help and General TEAM play. im all in for it, Want me to teach them? Sure ill do it, Even if i have to teach a hundred, As long as they teach the ones they meet. but the second they stop listening, They dont understand that they NEED to be at Point X, And do Y. Then they are beyond my saving. I cant do anything there. And then they shouldnt be pvping.

[Winfernal]

basically this.

When you are thrown into the mix with whoever at any time don't expect them to value the GAME as much as you do.

People are allowed to have other priorities when its an open game. Just because you can't stand your little ego being crushed in a game or because you arn't mindlessly stacking up pathetic points as much doesn't mean everyone else who plays SWTOR has to throw their life away and put their nose to the grindstone for an overall useless game.

Why are you implying that every competative player is a no-lifer, that throws their life away? I got a job, i got friends, i got a perfect life. I play for the fun of it, and fun for me happens to be winning. I happen to be good at PvPing, because i'm the mindset of learning, and getting better and better.

Why are you hostile against us? Do you happen to be below-average in PvPing? You don't need to play 24/7 to be good at it. It requires IQ, and a tactital brain. Basic reactions could also be useful. It's not hard.

[Krogh]

Why are you implying that every competative player is a no-lifer, that throws their life away? I got a job, i got friends, i got a perfect life. I play for the fun of it, and fun for me happens to be winning. I happen to be good at PvPing, because i'm the mindset of learning, and getting better and better.

Exhactly my tought, whats your issue Venomous. I really dont get why we cant be competetive and have a life..

[VenomousCarnage]

And by all means, Its not my Opinion, Theres no opinion to be had, Are you actually telling me, You would enjoy playing a char, or lets say, 20 soccor games, where Your the only man out of elleven that actually runs around, Trying to score? And your Teammates Do stupid stuff like penalties or own goals?..

1st. I wouldn't be silly enough to push myself o win in a game that was open for just anyone to enter/join with no prerequisites other then a credit card (that is most likley thier parents)

2nd. IF all my teammates where just being lazy and not trying to win I wouldn't get all pissy and whine about it. I would see what they are doing and try to have fun with them or walk away and try for a league that isn't full of people like that.

An mmorpg is a competetive play,

You're opinion and your playstyle. It's only your goals pushing you to be competitive, not everyone goals are gonna be the same as yours and it would be ignorant to think they all will be in such an open game. PvE is especially non-competitive, That is just a trend people fall into. people who get world first get no advantage. At most they get some meaningless title or pet to swing around thier e-peen with, many times just a monument to how much time they wasted in real life they could of actually done something to better themselves or the world.

Assuming you mean PvP as this thread suggests then yes there is a compeditive aspect but it is left up to interpretation really. at PVPs core there is some competition but a community as a whole can shape the outcome. These people having fun I'm sure accomplished thier goal. If not then they likely moved on and are not your problem anymore. Just because you can't function without the E-peen of winning shouldn't force them to become PvP machines with no feeling because they can only have fun the way you say so, when you say so.

If you need to win so badly do something in the real world anyone could actually be proud of rather then in a fake environment that means nothing.

---------- Post added 2012-01-13 at 11:32 PM ----------

Exhactly my tought, whats your issue Venomous. I really dont get why we cant be competetive and have a life..

So I'm the close minded one even though you say people can only have fun in PvP if they are trying their best to win?

[Imnick]

This problem will not go away unless you join with your own team of friends because other people have different standards of enjoyment than you do
If you want to be able to trust your team, make your entire team out of people you know

[Winfernal]

So I'm the close minded one even though you say people can only have fun in PvP if they are trying their best to win?

Yes, you are. Because you're implying that everyone that excells in PvP are no-lifers. So you're the narrow minded here. Hypocrite...

This problem will not go away unless you join with your own team of friends because other people have different standards of enjoyment than you do
If you want to be able to trust your team, make your entire team out of people you know

It's not about playing with leet players only. It's about entering a warzone with the mindset of WINNING. Because that's the goal of a WZ, to beat the enemy. Instead of going in NEUTRAL, and don't give a f'ck about how your team is doing.

[Rooflesstoofless]

I love PvP. To me it is my favorite part of an MMO and bad PvP usually shortens the lifespan of a game by a huge margin (i.e. Rift). I'll gladly do PvP at level cap till a raid is nerfed into the ground and lolfaceroll my way through it with a PUG and even then I might pass it up if my arena team (in WoW) were all on that night.

You know what I hate? When someone gets diarrhea at the mouth and spouting all sorts of shit because his/her team is actually losing. 90% of the time they aren't actually doing ANYTHING (yes, even less than the nooooobs) because they are typing out their frustrations.

These are the same responses I give when I get tired of some nerd raging over the fact that our team is losing:

" I dont care about winning, im just having fun man "
" Who cares if they have 3 turrets i just killed this jedi lol"
" I dont go for the ball ever, then i instant die lolnub"
" Stfu and play the game retard idc about your valor i wanner have fun"

The best thing you can possibly do is be constructive and give simple commands and be willing to accept the loss. Anyone who does PvP enough knows that different times of day bring different types of players to the field.

[Gouky]

but just imagine how cool it is, when you win without even trying.

but even if you start to stress and scream at the monitor, in 15vs15 battle it will make no difference so chill out.

[Imnick]

It's not about playing with leet players only. It's about entering a warzone with the mindset of WINNING. Because that's the goal of a WZ, to beat the enemy. Instead of going in NEUTRAL, and don't give a f'ck about how your team is doing.

And the only way to get a team guaranteed to also think that is to make the team yourself before entering.

[Winfernal]

And the only way to get a team guaranteed to also think that is to make the team yourself before entering.

No...

It's not a huge problem on my server, luckily. Most people here wants to win.

[Deleted]

I guess you can loose but get more medals and medals are all that really matters aren't they? This would explain why some people dont care about winning as long as they end up with like 10+ medals every game.

[Krogh]

You're opinion and your playstyle. It's only your goals pushing you to be competitive, not everyone goals are gonna be the same as yours and it would be ignorant to think they all will be in such an open game. PvE is especially non-competitive, That is just a trend people fall into. people who get world first get no advantage. At most they get some meaningless title or pet to swing around thier e-peen with, many times just a monument to how much time they wasted in real life they could of actually done something to better themselves or the world.

Seriously? Who in this whole wide world PLAYS. A GAME. and wont try there hardest to win?.

GAME - A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool. Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration, and from art, which is more often an expression of aesthetic or ideological elements. However, the distinction is not clear-cut, and many games are also considered to be work (such as professional players of spectator sports/games) or art (such as jigsaw puzzles or games involving an artistic layout such as Mahjong, solitaire, or some video games). - Who plays Mahjong or Solitair and wont try there hardest to solve the pusle? See pvp as a pusle, if you win, Or get damn close, You solved it, Next time to it quicker, Difrent (IE = Improve).

PLAY -

Idioms:
72.
bring into play, to put into motion; cause to be introduced: New evidence has been brought into play in this trial.
73.
come to play, Informal . to be disposed to play or participate in a manner reflecting a determination to win or succeed: We're a small new business, but we came to play.
74.
in / out of play, in or not in the state of being played during a game: The umpire says the ball was not in play.


Yes i went Dictionary/Wikipedia on you. Bare with me.

[Jit]

If you are dead set on winning bring some friends over instead of expecting the best out of a pug.

[Krogh]

I love PvP. To me it is my favorite part of an MMO and bad PvP usually shortens the lifespan of a game by a huge margin (i.e. Rift). I'll gladly do PvP at level cap till a raid is nerfed into the ground and lolfaceroll my way through it with a PUG and even then I might pass it up if my arena team (in WoW) were all on that night.

You know what I hate? When someone gets diarrhea at the mouth and spouting all sorts of shit because his/her team is actually losing. 90% of the time they aren't actually doing ANYTHING (yes, even less than the nooooobs) because they are typing out their frustrations.

These are the same responses I give when I get tired of some nerd raging over the fact that our team is losing:


The best thing you can possibly do is be constructive and give simple commands and be willing to accept the loss. Anyone who does PvP enough knows that different times of day bring different types of players to the field.

I dont know if you read the earlyer pages, But i have no what so ever issues with your mind set. You seem to be in it to win it, Aswell. Yes, i "Nerd-rage" from time to time, usually after, i appology if i see i was wrong, If not, Then i ignore said person who caused the rage. And move on with my life after a short break. My issue is not with people that makes mistakes that makes us loose the game. Im cool with that, What i cant stand is players not realizeing they did a mistake, I do, and call out for it aswell, Everytime, To be a team player. And people playing in the Mindset that winning isnt fun. if you go back to the first post, I posted 3 senarios of having fun. 1.5 of them is loosing. Loosing can be fun, But loose with style, Or get outplayed. Dont loose Because some player isnt in the "Im in it to win it" Mindset that is Pretty much a Norm for the world we live in. Atleast in denmark.

---------- Post added 2012-01-14 at 01:10 AM ----------

If you are dead set on winning bring some friends over instead of expecting the best out of a pug.

I dont expect the best, I realize i have a high chance of loosing, Agian thats not the issue, Its how you loose. Or are you implying that i cant expect my TEAM mates to play the game at all?. Like its suposed to be played?

[Imnick]

I dont expect the best, I realize i have a high chance of loosing, Agian thats not the issue, Its how you loose. Or are you implying that i cant expect my TEAM mates to play the game at all?. Like its suposed to be played?

You are playing with random players who may derive enjoyment from things other than the primary objective of the battleground
Never expect anything but the worst from people you have never met and will never meet again when the battleground is over

It is pointless to whine and complain about how illogical they are because they don't care and also are not going to read this topic. It is not going to change any of their minds because they clearly must enjoy what they are doing or they would be doing it
Denying that it is possible that they are having fun is closed minded. Clearly not everyone enjoys the same thing, and clearly these people enjoy different things to you. And the only way to get away from them is not to queue with random people.

Making a topic on MMO champion solves absolutely no problems and never will, nothing is ever going to change
Making a guild or PvP team of people who agree with you and only queueing with them solves all of your problems
The latter is the only thing worth doing

[Matt0193]

You are playing with random players who may derive enjoyment from things other than the primary objective of the battleground

So, if I go into a Flashpoint and pull everything because, I like to see if I can push my boundaries, people shouldn't get mad at me because I'm doing it in a way that isn't the way you're meant to do it? No, I'll get whined at and kicked. It shouldn't be different in PvP compared to PvE in this respect. You do a Warzone for the objectives, not to just piss around.

[Winfernal]

So, if I go into a Flashpoint and pull everything because, I like to see if I can push my boundaries, people shouldn't get mad at me because I'm doing it in a way that isn't the way you're meant to do it? No, I'll get whined at and kicked. It shouldn't be different in PvP compared to PvE in this respect. You do a Warzone for the objectives, not to just piss around.

Agreed. This is TERRIBLE logic.

[Zephire]

Hey, This is gonna sound elitetisk, it isnt really, This is common knowlegde from a guy who have been fighting agiasnt being a "bad looser" in games for over 15 years. My first language isnt English. Sorry for the errors.

So, i started out this morning, getting free from all my classes and having a blast of a start on this lovely weekend, so i decided i wanted to devote some time into spamming warzones, Ive propably done about 3-4 an hour, for about 12 hours today.

We start out like the usual, Empire side here so we tend to dominate alot, i win the first 6 or 7 matches with an medium of 5 medals, Everythings normal. then around 12(Im danish). These "I play for fun" Players began to show up. More and more, Heres some Quotes. After a few games here, I take my first break. Becourse i know ill go insane. - came back about Haft to 1.

" I dont care about winning, im just having fun man "
" Who cares if they have 3 turrets i just killed this jedi lol"
" I dont go for the ball ever, then i instant die lolnub"
" Stfu and play the game retard idc about your valor i wanner have fun"

This is just some of them, alot slightly easyer, alot way more rash, Im sure WE all know about them.

Then for the next 5 Hours i win exhactly 2 games, Two hutball games where we win 1-0 By a quickcap from me, and a sneaky throw combination of me and my friend.

i dont know the exhact amount, but 3-4g/h for 5 hours thats around 20 games.

At this point i force my self to take another break. I simply need to. For said reasons. At this point i did point out some mistakes in /ops, But i didnt "rage"


Now to the point.

To have "Fun" in a competetive game. (Where an side can lose, and a side can win, Theres no inbetween) One of three conditions MUST be followed.

- Winning the game.
- Loosing the game well known that you where simply outplayed, outclassed and there strat rolled over you.
- Loosing or winning the game in a Tight race where your sweating down to the last second. - THIS IS FUN.


Loosing a game first of all means close to no exp, Close to no Valor, Close to nothing, Just about 15 mins wasted of your life (Yes i realize you get something but it aint much.)

I dont get it, I dont get what these people define as fun, They tell me to get the fuck out of there game cuss im ruining theres. yet they do exhactly the same by having this mentallity. (Seriously, No it aint fun being run over for 15mins for 10k exp. or 300 valor. Seriously, Its not.)

To put it into perspective, I farmed about 1500 Commendations during the last two days, playing casually, 2-4 hours a day, Ive made about 900 today playing so much. Yet for nothing.

Why? How can i help it? What can i do?.

(Disclaimer: I dont see this as a biow problem, Its caused by this FANTASTIC Community that we all claim to be so needed).

Let me enlighten you:
You "casually "farm"" pvp a while. You do this and you know that a lose is a lose not only per say but per recourses as well as exp. You enjoy when your team manage to stand victorious and work hard to get there, great!
However, you're not alone.
Someone else might enjoy being stealth just to ambush someone with low HP and then vanish. Another maybe enjoys trying to kill other players in weird ways or just like to tackle 1v2. Maybe these individuals only play 2-3 games before they go back to something else or just log off?

Just because there is a team game, a clear goal and a bright and shiny way to achieve this goal does not mean everyone will enjoy it.

One could argue that those people do not belong in that environment though they're still there. Only way to "assure" that you're playing with like minded is by creating premades. If you team up with randoms then you'll have low to nonexistent teamwork and solo-missionary's.

Only thing you can do part from that would be a) change game to a solo-ladder game like StarCraft II. Then you'll have none to blame but your self. Or b) try to lead the "battleground" (don't remember the ToR therm...).

Good Luck, nonetheless!

[Krogh]

You are playing with random players who may derive enjoyment from things other than the primary objective of the battleground
Never expect anything but the worst from people you have never met and will never meet again when the battleground is over

It is pointless to whine and complain about how illogical they are because they don't care and also are not going to read this topic. It is not going to change any of their minds because they clearly must enjoy what they are doing or they would be doing it
Denying that it is possible that they are having fun is closed minded. Clearly not everyone enjoys the same thing, and clearly these people enjoy different things to you. And the only way to get away from them is not to queue with random people.

Making a topic on MMO champion solves absolutely no problems and never will, nothing is ever going to change
Making a guild or PvP team of people who agree with you and only queueing with them solves all of your problems
The latter is the only thing worth doing

Why? How can i help it? What can i do?.

Those where my questions, Ive got most of the answered allready, True. But its an interesting topic, So i want to keep it open. I realize im playing with "Random" strangers, and then agian not, This is not cross realm wow, I actually Reconize people after awhile, ive done, somewhere between 60-80 WZ in total i recon, ive made friends ive made enemies, On both sides. So yes, I will meet them agian. Yes i could Train them, And yes i do, IF they listen.

Is it pointless to whine? Mostlikely, Bioware wont do a thing about it, But i might. I want to understand these people, If i understand them, Then they might see me difrently, and start working with me, Instead of agiasnt me. It seems VERY Illogical to me, i would actually go as far as saying its agiasnt Human nature to walk into something Competetive and loose on purpose.

Is pvp Competetive? Yes, Its agiasnt other players, You WIN by solveing the pusle quickest (IE = Figureing out how to beat the enemy team) And in doing so, You become a Team, A unit. They obviously need something, I dont know wth it is, But i might be able to give it to them WHILE wer winning by doing what wer suposed to. (if a GAME has conditions to win, then there is a way where suposed to win it Aka, There is a way where suposed to do it.) It hits be both has an offtime Game designer my self. And as a human being in general.

Am i close minded? I think not. Why els would i be asking why they are that way?. Beside, I´d rather be having a Logical and good discussion here about it, than ranting while pvping, I hate it, I hate when i do it, Its outbursts. No ones perfect. I Realize that.

Making a topic on mmochampion places it somewhere where i can Discuss it, Which i actually REALLY want to, Will it lead to solutions? Maybe, Who knows, And saying Nothing will ever change is like saying we as humans dont evolve. And we do. All the time.

Iam in the progress of making a pvp team. Things take time, and i quite enjoy the general pvp, ive been having a blast over the last week. I abselute love it, But it all fell apart today during this Mentality breakdown. isnt it worth playing with strangers? sure it is! i like it, I make friends, we tie bonds, Whenever is see this Republic player in Wz´s i do my best to take him down, or stop him from doing hes job, Its a game we have been going since we where both lvl 10 Newbies which didnt knew how to throw the ball, Heh, I learned. Took a game, But yeah. THAT is community.