A nice guy or a jerk?

[waat]

Why does it have to be every man for itself? Why not just be a decent human being and do what you think is right and don't steal loot from people. Ps, your not entitled to loot just as much as everyone else. They need the gear. You don't. They win.

If you want a more detailed explanation go to the 11th or so page and read my posts there.

Because you can't control everyone else in the group, and they will need everything they can and then try to use the stuff they don't need for trade. If you try to be the good guy and pass on things you don't need, you're gimping yourself, because they won't return the favor.

You must assume that everyone is going to take advantage when they can, and do the same by rolling need on everything. If you end up with loot you don't need and nothing to trade it for, give it to someone else at the end of the run.

[Aenok]

Fine by me.

[pakoa]

Because you can't control everyone else in the group, and they will need everything they can and then try to use the stuff they don't need for trade. If you try to be the good guy and pass on things you don't need, you're gimping yourself, because they won't return the favor.

You must assume that everyone is going to take advantage when they can, and do the same by rolling need on everything. If you end up with loot you don't need and nothing to trade it for, give it to someone else at the end of the run.

I am sorry, but no I will never make that my mentality with anything in life. That is an aweful way to live your life. People fuck me over so I'm gimping myself if I don't fuck them over?....just no. I refuse to do it. In any aspect of my life. I honestly believe the world would be a FAR better place if people didn't find themselves compelled to do things just because others do. Hey if I left my wallet on the table at a restaurant and nobody was looking, I'm sure they would take mine, so I'm just gonna grab this real quick...are you serious? You know what I'll assume? That people are decent, and hey, even if they're not, I'm decent and will not partake in said actions.

That said, I do now need on everything I possibly can. But only in the ways I list specifically in the last page or so in this thread (I've already reposted like 3 times). No, I will not take everything I can because everyone else will because that makes me no better than them, a piece of shit. And I certainly won't hoard everything I can to "trade" with people at the end. I REFUSE. Because I have integrity. Standards. Morals. Instead I'll need and if I win, give to the next highest roller who would have won anyway using my criteria listed in my previous posts and sig, in a fair and objective way that ensures people like you don't steal loot for your own selfish reasons and fucked up justifications.

Please people, there has to be more than just me that think this way. Please, let me know you all are out there.

[Enamy]

id say a bit of both. a jerk because you manipulate the system beyond its intention, and you give yourself more power than you were intended to have. with that said, i do it too, only i take a minute or two to check the other rollers performance as well, in comparrison to their current gear. if i feel that the second roller does not live up to expectations (read; slacker!) i might give it to roller nr 3 or 4 or 5 instead

[Raelbo]

So you must work with the presumption that the majority of people in LFR are "jerks" who will roll on gear for reasons other than equipping it. You can sit on your hands and beg blizzard to make more and more rules and restrictions in their loot rules, or you can simply use the system to your maximum advantage and roll need on everything you can, then handing out or trading those items you don't need. It's game theory. You should assume everyone else is going to take advantage whenever possible, so you should also take advantage whenever possible. It's an arms race of sorts.

According to game theory though, this attitude actually means that everyone loses in the end. The BEST possible outcome occurs when people are fair but firm.

According to game theory, the optimum way to play LFR is start off assuming that everyone in the raid is a fair player - ie they do they best, don't afk during fights, and don't try to abuse their right to roll need whenever they can. When someone is shown to abuse the system (and other players) they need to be kicked - and the OP would fall into this category.

[Seegtease]

According to game theory though, this attitude actually means that everyone loses in the end. The BEST possible outcome occurs when people are fair but firm.

According to game theory, the optimum way to play LFR is start off assuming that everyone in the raid is a fair player - ie they do they best, don't afk during fights, and don't try to abuse their right to roll need whenever they can. When someone is shown to abuse the system (and other players) they need to be kicked - and the OP would fall into this category.

So we kick the OP, then everyone else who is actually abusing the system continues. We kick the one person who can help stop it?

[Jhoff]

I don't know about you, but if I'm running a LFR, I feel more comfortable knowing there is someone like the OP in my raid. So when gear pops up that I legitimately need, I have less of a chance of losing it to some jerk who just wants to vendor it.

Calling them "retards" and other names won't get your loot back. Someone has to take action, and in this case it's the OP.

What if the OP decides that it is you that suddenly can't have the gear you rolled second highest on? My issue is the sentence where OP states "if he really needs it". At the moment I am running with a character that can only use 1 item from LFR, and it's a rather small upgrade, but still an upgrade. What if OP decides that I "don't really need it"? This is why I think that people should just leave loot alone if they don't intend to use it

[pakoa]

If you don't know enough about gear then don't mess with it, yes. However, I, personally, know whether something is an upgrade for someone. Maybe you don't know that I know, which I understand, but I don't need to prove myself to anyone. I know a lot about this game and just because other people don't know what an upgrade looks like doesn't mean I will give up and not make sure afkers and unnecessary needers don't get loot. Even if it's a small upgrade I personally would give it to you.

I don't get your logic. First of all, nobodys going to stop doing it no matter what you say or do. That means the people that decide for the wrong reasons you don't deserve loot will still give loot to whoever they deem worthy of their subjective, biased criteria. You're trying to get rid of the people that actually do know how to be objective, actually do know what an upgrade looks like, and will actually give loot to people that only truly need said upgrade.. just because some dumbasses that don't know other classes will possibly be unfair sometimes. Only you know whether you are objective or not, and know if the upgrade is a true upgrade or not. If your not sure, go ahead and give it to them. Just because others won't do this, doesn't mean you shouldn't. Do you get what I'm saying?

Nothing we say or do will affect anyone else. If your someone that is actually a good person, will be fair, knows what an upgrade looks like, then go ahead and give out loot to the non afkers who need the item. The people that do it for the wrong reasons, or don't even hand out loot and just vendor/de the items will still do their thing. At least with us, theres some people doing the right thing rather than none.

[Jhoff]

So who will be the ones that deem someone worthy of being able to decide who should have loot who shouldn't. This is the essence of my issue. Sure you might be able to tell who is needing an item for an actual upgrade, but when people applaud this kind of behavior, it encourage more people to "become loot-gods", and that's where my issue is. If this behavior is encouraged, then more people will start to do so, and then it starts to be "that guy ressed me, so he gets loot" and so on. If you need to ask if it's ok on a forum, then I my answer is going to be "NO". This is why people should stop doing so, but ofc it goes hand in hand with the fact that people should stop being jerks and "need" for vendoring/disenchanting

[pakoa]

People already have a formed opinion on whether they will try to be loot gods. They'll do it regardless if I inspire them, or someone else, possibly with the wrong reaons, inspires them. In an idealistic world, you may very well be right. But there will always be people who need all the the time to vendor/de, need all the time with regards to the way I'm referring to, need all the time but are subjective and give to people they like/ only do amazing dps or aren't fair with their assumptions of an upgrade, and people that need only when they need an item. Even if I do change someone's mind and inspire them to do good, is this not better than having them do it based on bullshit reasons instead of occasionally screwing you over of a slight upgrade (their intentions were good) or even worse, needing just to give to guildees or vendor or de? And if anything, these people trying to do good at least will win rolls over the people that would just vendor it anyway.

[Jhoff]

Nope, I don't think people needing for DE/vendoring is a big issue (as in I don't think it happens that often), and i think people needing to redistribute is as much of a problem, if not bigger. Go ahead and continue doing so, you just wont get my approval

[pakoa]

According to the original thread about needing in LFR from a few weeks ago, many people feel they are entitled to do whatever they please once they win a roll. Proof from the poll and proof from the posts. It's a widespread issue. And ok, fine. At first you understood what I was saying, but you seemed to have regressed, gone back to your original opinion (idk why), and now even I and seegtease are doing the wrong thing. I don't see any more point in debating with you if your going to change your opinion back again over nothing. You provided no response of substance to my last post. Just regressed to your original opinion for no reason and said "I think it's a problem." GG.

You really think redistrubting loot to at least someone whether based on a really strict (like mine) criteria or a loose (must have 30k dps, has to be a nice person, can't have won any other loot before this, etc, etc.) criteria is worse than someone literally disenchanting an item on the spot in someones face as they ask for the loot just to spite them? C'mon.

[Mongoose19]

Very good decision. Everyone who says you are jerk are those slacking, baddie people who afk in LFR and are doing 9k dps or next to no healing. So yea they are butthurt that someone is actually making them not get loot which they absolutely don't deserve.

Keep doing what you doing!

[Jhoff]

You really think redistrubting loot to at least someone whether based on a really strict (like mine) criteria or a loose (must have 30k dps, has to be a nice person, can't have won any other loot before this, etc, etc.) criteria is worse than someone literally disenchanting an item on the spot in someones face as they ask for the loot just to spite them? C'mon.

Ofc not, but that is not what I am saying either. Besides, you are right about the discussion, I feel we are beating a dead horse here. I am not gonna discuss it further, the OP asked for opinions, I gave mine. End of story

[pakoa]

Haha I agree with regards to the dead horse. As long as we both have the same morals and principles in this situations, that's all I can ask for

[PrairieChicken]

It seems quite jerky; why do you roll and give it to the second-highest roller?

It's just complete waste of time, when not rolling at all would yield same result.

[pakoa]

It seems quite jerky; why do you roll and give it to the second-highest roller?

It's just complete waste of time, when not rolling at all would yield same result.

You obviously didn't read any of the other posts, so I'm not going to bother with you. It's not the same result. Read what's already been discussed please.

[Jurwi]

So earlier today i did my weekly LFR. I was just going through the loot drops in Atlasloot, i didnt need anything from LFR but id still like to see what drops from what. Thats when i remembered a few post here on mmo-champ about how some ppl roll on loot that they dont need and just leave and dont take it if they win or try to sell it to his fellow raiders. So for the 8 bosses of DS i rolled on everything i could equip and when i won the item i checked who rolled 2nd to me and checked his gear. If he really needed the item i traded it to him, free and without any charges. From all these people i got a smiley and a thanks and that made me feel good about myself.

But now to the question: In your eyes is this kinda of a jerk move or a work of a nice guy?

Dick move. It's not your decision to make who deserves an item.

Basically you selfishly rolled need just to feel good about yourself when you got those smileys.

[xiza]

I'd rather have somebody like you in the LFR rather than those people who are whispering me I shall roll on this and that item because they are wearing [crappy item].
However, LFR is a complete madness when it comes to loot. People are raging, start to insult others because s/he was dead/afk/last on the dps/heal meters and won an item or a token, so s/he doesn't deserve any loot.

[Deleted]

The only right thing to do is need for mainspec upgrades, greed for offspec upgrades, disenchant for gold and pass if you're loaded.

Playing lootmaster in a LFR is never right. If you feel someone is not pulling his weight, you should have kicked him before the boss. You are not the one who should decide who gets what loot. If you want to do that, go form a PUG and put on ML. I've been lowest on healing for quite some time, simply because I didn't have the gear to pull high numbers and sustain that throughout the fight. By your definition I would never get loot, and thus never improve, because you can't judge my performance at all and would decide I was slacking.

You're selfish and no matter what excuse you made up, it's not right what you do.