PvP Healer Queuing needs to be revamped

[Deleted]

First of all, this is NOT a QQ thread. I kicked ass because of this...lets call it a glitch in the queuing system...as did my revered enemies, the alliance.
Second, let us be clear that I am only talking about RANDOM BGs here...Rated BG Setups are 100% up to the players.

Dear Bliz.
It is NOT FUN if you are in a random battleground, and the enemy team has got 5 healers. Its not even funny if the situation is the same on your side. And to elaborate, it is also not fun if YOU are on the side with the 5 Healers...I go random BG for the challenge, and being able to roflstomp Alliance by the dozen ON THEIR OWN GRAVEYARD in Twin Peaks (yes, I made it up there, thank you VERY much for shadowstep) because I am backed up by a restoshamy and two holyadins, effectively locking up their whole team, is not exactly my definition of challenging.

Granted, 7/10 BGs are somewhat balanced...but almost every third BG has an obscene amount of healers on one side, ruining the experience not only for their adversaries, but for (at least thats my opinion, of course there are those, and I wont deny that it can be refreshing, who enjoy easymode) all players in the field, simply because one team is more immortal than Chuck Norris after he made Deathwing his favorite PvP Mount, and the other one is reduced to cannon fodder.

I play damage classes, for the most part, with rogue being my all time favorite. I consider myself a fairly good player, I am not elite, but I know my stuff, and I can take down, or at least lock up most healers. BUT: Doing so, becomes utterly ridiculous, when the enemy carrier is happily hopping away with your flag, while half a dozen healers not only keep him up, but themselves as well...and yes, concentrated fire, stuns, kicks and whatnot may occasionally allow you to kill one or two of them...but before you can take out the whole bunch, the respawn has already reached the carry, and they...carry (pun intended) on. That would not be a problem if there where only two healers present..but since there can be so many, they can effectively make a "death rotation"...everytime you kill one, another one is respawning from their GY.

The situation can get even worse...if you happen to be on the side that, by RNG has ZERO healers...yey, funny, 6 Warriors, 2 Rogues a Retadin and a Hunter against 2 Holys, two Diszis and some DDs, that laughed their faces off while they stomped us into the ground. This has nothing to do with skill, or lacking it anymore...it simply is a question of Random Number Generation.

My Point is: You already managed to solve that problem in the dungeon finder and LFR...every dungeon group gets ONE healer. Why not do the same for BGs? Assign, lets say for 10man BGs 2 Healers and 8 other classes, for 15man 3, and so on, to each side. It is my understanding that there are far less healers than dds anyway...at least i always get an instant invte into dungons/lfr with my shamy. Players would have to choose a class before they enter a queue, and be forced to respecc to that specc before they can enter.
That way, we could also enjoy those pesky 3/10 BGs that, right now, are a pain in the butterfly.

[Zues]

You know, one smokebomb+aoe fear pretty much handles that situation

[Deleted]

You know, one smokebomb+aoe fear pretty much handles that situation

That doesn't work. Any non-retarded blood dk flag carrier would just trinket -> anti magic shell -> icebound fortitude -> run out of smokebomb. If the damage sustained is too heavy one of the 3 Holy paladins would just bubble and use lay on hands.

Personally the best way I've found to kill 4 or 5 healers in a flag room is just to pop heroism/time warp + volcanic pot and just multidot everything. My gear is incredibly good (dragonwrath and heroic cunning of the cruel) so that's a lot of preassure in itself. Then you're free to chose your target depending on who has worse gear and who doesn't have any external/personal CDs up.
Just remember to apply random CC and line up your own CDs together with it, and you'll see the first healer die within 30 seconds, the next within 15 and then you've already overtaken them, because no pair of healers can stay alive against 4-5 damage dealers who's focusing down one of the healers.
And of course having a DK friend death griping a healer out of los of all the others will usually yield you a kill. Other than that it can usually work if you try and trick one guy outside of the flag room for a 1v1.

But yes, I agree. The only thing you're relying on in these kind of situations are the people you are playing with (proper gear/using their CC and interrupts/lining up CDs/using heroism or time warp), and also that you're not facing 4 or 5 really good healers (but just average), who aren't exceptionally good at keeping everyone up despite quick target switches.

[omniscience]

I agree on most of the wall. It's def not fun to be outnumbered 4-1 in healers. I try that often.

Maybe Blizz could incorpe a system that checked the que for healers, every1´s gear and class mb - something so we'd end up with decent balanced teams.

But I feel your opinion on this one. It's fucking frustration to play with

[Veranya]

I think the concern would be that queue times could get considerably longer, and that might be why blizzard has not done this.

I do agree though. It's amazingly frustrating to know you are so much better than the opposing team, but still can not kill shit because they got a shitload of (often quite bad) healers, who can't be killed just because they are healers.

[omniscience]

I think the concern would be that queue times could get considerably longer, and that might be why blizzard has not done this.

It wont have the greatest impact on high populated bg-groups, but the concern is ofc the smaller ones where ques possibly would be too high.

I would gladly trade my 10 seconds que with a 2-3 min one, if it would mean I could get a balanced bg.

[Malgru]

Yesterday in Twin Peaks, I faced an Alliance group of two 5 man premades.

Both premades had 5 healers. They RP walked across the field with the flag.

[insmek]

Gladly. I would gladly trade insta-queues for the guarantee that I would have 2-3 healers in a 10-man BG. Of course, I would also love the ability to change specs mid-BG. If a healer or FC drops out, why can't I take over for them?

[Deleted]

I like the idea but as someone mentioned, it might get nasty on low pop realms due to longer queues and what if there's a lot of healers on that low pop realm, then the queue for healers would be even longer.

Also, you got to remember that people could bypass such a system, simply by queueing as a dps and respec once inside the BG.

[Deleted]

I like the idea but as someone mentioned, it might get nasty on low pop realms due to longer queues and what if there's a lot of healers on that low pop realm, then the queue for healers would be even longer.

Also, you got to remember that people could bypass such a system, simply by queueing as a dps and respec once inside the BG.

I disagree with the first point raised. It would not affect the queueing times on low pop realms at all...simply because the healer to DD ratio is virtually the same on all realms, regardless of population...it is a fact that there are far more of the latter, as can be testified by every statistics website that collects data on the topic. Granted, low population realmgroups have longer waiting times...but that has nothing to do with spec distribution, but simply with the total number of available players.

The second point can easily be addressed, simply by forcing people to stay in the specc they entered the BG with...it can´t be that hard to lock the specc-change-option while the char is located inside an active battleground.

[Zues]

That doesn't work. Any non-retarded blood dk flag carrier would just trinket -> anti magic shell -> icebound fortitude -> run out of smokebomb. If the damage sustained is too heavy one of the 3 Holy paladins would just bubble and use lay on hands.

Personally the best way I've found to kill 4 or 5 healers in a flag room is just to pop heroism/time warp + volcanic pot and just multidot everything. My gear is incredibly good (dragonwrath and heroic cunning of the cruel) so that's a lot of preassure in itself. Then you're free to chose your target depending on who has worse gear and who doesn't have any external/personal CDs up.
Just remember to apply random CC and line up your own CDs together with it, and you'll see the first healer die within 30 seconds, the next within 15 and then you've already overtaken them, because no pair of healers can stay alive against 4-5 damage dealers who's focusing down one of the healers.
And of course having a DK friend death griping a healer out of los of all the others will usually yield you a kill. Other than that it can usually work if you try and trick one guy outside of the flag room for a 1v1.

But yes, I agree. The only thing you're relying on in these kind of situations are the people you are playing with (proper gear/using their CC and interrupts/lining up CDs/using heroism or time warp), and also that you're not facing 4 or 5 really good healers (but just average), who aren't exceptionally good at keeping everyone up despite quick target switches.

3 pallies who use LoH and an actual tank spec carrying the flag? This is just a random bg we're talking about, not rateds...

[Deleted]

3 pallies who use LoH and an actual tank spec carrying the flag? This is just a random bg we're talking about, not rateds...

Yeah, so? 9/10 carrys I see in random BGs are Feral/Blood/Protpally with the occasional Protwarri. Holypaladins are a common sight to...and yes, they use LoH.

[Serurian]

Not sure how it would change the win / loss ratio when all too often, when you do have 3 healers in your random BG. You of course also will have 2-3 DPS that have no reason even being in the BG, the 90-100k hp fully buffed Feral or Rogue who is still wearing greens from Hyjal. The DPS that seem to refuse to keep anything CC'd at all as when someone does CC something they see it as the prime opportunity to toss down Death n Decay.

I regularly queue as a healer and it's just a thing of misery on any CTF random BG weekends, can play 20 games on Saturday and maybe have a smart team 5 or 6 times out of 20. So I don't think creating a queue to make sure have healers would do anything to help, just create wait times.

Also how would it pick between hybrids? Hybrid DPS would just end up queueing as a healer if it was a role selection to just actually DPS when they got in like happens with the LFR system.

[Rennix]

I agree with this, got into an rbg the other night with 6 healers. Needless to say they all turtled with the prot pally fc and he could not be touched.

[stians]

It wont have the greatest impact on high populated bg-groups, but the concern is ofc the smaller ones where ques possibly would be too high.

I would gladly trade my 10 seconds que with a 2-3 min one, if it would mean I could get a balanced bg.

Off-topic, but do you have a 10 second queue? Mine are usually 10 mins at best... :S

[Judgejoebrwn]

I agree and would support this idea 100%. It's virtually a given when you enter a BG and see the enemy has 3-4 healers and you have none that it's already a loss. And that's disheartening.

Somewhat off-topic, but if the decision is made to make random BG's a queueing system like LFD, could we instill SOME sort of Ilvl requirement? Nothing insanely high, maybe 329 equivalent to heroics. It's pretty aggravating to join a WSG or TP and see that 10-20% of your team is comprised of 94k hp DK's wearing WotLK gear, knowing full well they will be virtually useless to the team.

[omniscience]

Off-topic, but do you have a 10 second queue? Mine are usually 10 mins at best... :S

Some of the realms I play on have such small queues yes. Some have 5-10 min

[NightZero88]

Personally, if I queue for random bgs it is for fast honor for gear. I believe this is the case for most people doing random bgs. If you want to actually enjoy the fight then queue for rated bgs with friends. Moving on, if you guarentee that each side must have 2-3 healers per match two things will happen.

One, queue times will go through the roof for regular players because I know on my realm horde has a complete lack of healers. Queue times would go up dramatically for us because we'd be stuck waiting for the 5 healers to bounce around between matches that would last longer (see point below)

On top of that, each match would last longer. Sure you may hate the fact that when the enemy team has 5 healers and you can't touch their FC you will lose but the matches are generally quick as your team will just give up. If each side has 2 healers and these healers are not completely stupid a match will last longer with more turtling.

Explain to my why then, when most people are purely in BGs for fast gearing you would want to not only up the queue time for them but also up the match time significantly? What you are in effect doing is screwing over 90% of the people who do BGs for a specific reason, gear simply so YOU can have more fun because you are trying to turn a random BG into a mini rated BG in terms of requiring healers. If you want to have dedicated healers go queue for rated BGs and leave RANDOM bgs alone. They are called random for a reason.

[Serurian]

I agree and would support this idea 100%. It's virtually a given when you enter a BG and see the enemy has 3-4 healers and you have none that it's already a loss. And that's disheartening.

Somewhat off-topic, but if the decision is made to make random BG's a queueing system like LFD, could we instill SOME sort of Ilvl requirement? Nothing insanely high, maybe 329 equivalent to heroics. It's pretty aggravating to join a WSG or TP and see that 10-20% of your team is comprised of 94k hp DK's wearing WotLK gear, knowing full well they will be virtually useless to the team.

Most people use random BG's for getting gear, so if a gear requirement exists, where are they getting the gear? I mean sure it's easy to get crafted gear if this new character is not your main and you have gold. But if you have a bad server economy each crafted piece can cost easily 1k gold. So if they can't gear in a random BG they need to run TH for gear that might add stats but is not useful for a bg environment?

[Dundebuns]

I remember fighting a horde team one time and they had 5 healers. Was WSG or something. They were beaten 3-0 in quick time because, while they could heal OK, they didn't have the DPS to kill anyone, and with some good CC we would defeat them at every skirmish. Was also beaten a few times when I had 50% healers on my team too.

BG's should be balanced to have 20-30% healers on one team.