[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[rhorle]

Exactly. The fact the catalyst is not given form until the last 5 minutes of the game is exactly what I'm talking about. It wasn't given form or function therefore it did not exist. For all we knew air could be the catalyst. It's terrible writing. You can argue it all you want, but there is no good book/movie/game out there that introduces the main antagonist at the end of the plot.

The Wizard of Oz reveals the man behind the curtain at the end. Just because you think it sucks and is bad doesn't mean it is actual bad from a literary standpoint. The antagonist was set up through out the course of ME3 and its form took a surprise twist. It was given form and function. First as the catalyst the thing that makes the Crucible work. Then its revealed that the Citadel is the Catalyst. Then its revealed that there as an semi-shackled AI controlling the Citadel (which is hinted at in most things that describe the citadel).

It isn't something created just for the last five minutes if you are willing to look at the story. If all you want to see is crap writing then that is all you will see. Plenty of literary works have a twist at the end. Star wars has it with a main antagonist switching sides. Plenty of other works have those twist in it as well.

---------- Post added 2012-05-12 at 02:28 PM ----------

Wrong. The Catalyst was not introduced as a character, it was introduced as an object.

An object can be a character. If you follow enough of the ME lore it is that objects, like a geth or a space ship, can be just as much of a character as a organic creature can be. The catalyst is the Citadel it just presented itself in the form of a child (for whatever reason) to communicate with Shepard.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Klencory explains what the catalyst is according to ME1 lore, https://twitter.com/#!/JessicaMeriza...20195968847873.

[razisgosu]

The Wizard of Oz reveals the man behind the curtain at the end. Just because you think it sucks and is bad doesn't mean it is actual bad from a literary standpoint. The antagonist was set up through out the course of ME3 and its form took a surprise twist. It was given form and function. First as the catalyst the thing that makes the Crucible work. Then its revealed that the Citadel is the Catalyst. Then its revealed that there as an semi-shackled AI controlling the Citadel (which is hinted at in most things that describe the citadel).

It isn't something created just for the last five minutes if you are willing to look at the story. If all you want to see is crap writing then that is all you will see. Plenty of literary works have a twist at the end. Star wars has it with a main antagonist switching sides. Plenty of other works have those twist in it as well.

The man behind the curtain is hardly the antagonist of the story, that would be the wicked witch of the west, so that's an obscenely weak comparison. The starchild himself states he is the Catalyst, not the Citadel, therefore the entire bits revealed before it from the prothean VI is incorrect. It essentially unwrites its own story. It's garbage in whatever perspective you choose to look at it.

It is something created for the last 5 minutes. The catalyst is not revealed until you get beamed up to wherever in the Citadel you were taken to meet the starchild. What does star wars antagonist have anything to do with what we're comparing in ME3's ending? You can't compare a magic super entity showing up and telling you everything you've done in the previous 30 hours of gameplay is worthless, here are your 3 options to Anakin throwing the emperor over a ledge, they're completely different and should not be compared in the same light. It's not a plot twist.

[rhorle]

The man behind the curtain is hardly the antagonist of the story, that would be the wicked witch of the west, so that's an obscenely weak comparison. The starchild himself states he is the Catalyst, not the Citadel, therefore the entire bits revealed before it from the prothean VI is incorrect. It essentially unwrites its own story. It's garbage in whatever perspective you choose to look at it.

Ever thought that the VI doesn't know everything? Vendetta, the VI, even states that he can't identify the true master of the Reapers. It didn't know the child was there, it only knew that the key piece of the puzzle was the Citadel. As the star child states no one has ever made it to him before. But if he is a AI/VI then he can be called the Citadel the same as EDI can be called the Normandy. Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDxni...ailpage#t=109s clearly has the Child state that the Citadel is his home and is a part of him. The Catalyst is the Brain of the Citadel, which makes the Citadel the Catalyst. Kinda of like a human body without the brain is a still a human but it has no personality/alive.

The Child is the man behind the curtain to the Reapers. It leaves a potential story arc for future IP to explore while ending the current Cycle's story. It doesn't create any new story elements as everything it talks about has been referenced or hinted at in the past. It only reveals the truth behind several things that were still unknown up to that point.


The point of the comparisons were that you stated it was literary garbage and never done. Twists and surprises involving antagonists are common in Literary works. Its not something that Bioware invented for Mass Effect 3, and it isn't a garbage move.

[razisgosu]

Ever thought that the VI doesn't know everything? Vendetta, the VI, even states that he can't identify the true master of the Reapers. It didn't know the child was there, it only knew that the key piece of the puzzle was the Citadel. As the star child states no one has ever made it to him before. But if he is a AI/VI then he can be called the Citadel the same as EDI can be called the Normandy. Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDxni...ailpage#t=109s clearly has the Child state that the Citadel is his home and is a part of him. The Catalyst is the Brain of the Citadel, which makes the Citadel the Catalyst. Kinda of like a human body without the brain is a still a human but it has no personality/alive.

The Child is the man behind the curtain to the Reapers. It leaves a potential story arc for future IP to explore while ending the current Cycle's story. It doesn't create any new story elements as everything it talks about has been referenced or hinted at in the past. It only reveals the truth behind several things that were still unknown up to that point.


The point of the comparisons were that you stated it was literary garbage and never done. Twists and surprises involving antagonists are common in Literary works. Its not something that Bioware invented for Mass Effect 3, and it isn't a garbage move.

You've completely missed the point. Doing it in the last 5 minutes is the problem. You do not show the big bad in the last 5 minutes, and leave the ending with multiple plot holes and tons of unanswered questions. Everything after Shepard got beamed up to the Citadel is a plot hole. It's all terrible writing on Bioware's or more so Casey's part.

To bring it back to your point, Wizard of Oz brings about closure. Back in Kansas, family, etc. Bioware did not close this story, they left multiple things undefined which makes it all terrible writing. Did we win? Are the reapers destroyed/forever controlled/lolsynthesisending? Is Shepard alive, what's with the breath? Why the fuck is Joker flying off into space like a madman? How in gods name did someone who was in London with me get on the Normandy? Are the relays functional? Why are both Anderson and TIM facing Shepard after being beamed up, when Anderson is clearly replying to TIM? I specifically mean the "You're indoctrinated" quote from Anderson after TIM spoke. Why does TIM represent blue "paragon" control when he has always been perceived as a renegade, same for Anderson.

There are too many unanswered questions to call it "good writing."

[Deleted]

Don´t forget about that stupid Bodyscanner you have to go through every fricking time when entering or leaving the war room.

Seriously the ME3 Normandy is at least 150% more stupid and badder than the ME2 one. Even the ME1 Normandy was better than that silly Alliance one.

I want to be able to stay with Cerberus and don´t hand over the ship to the Alliance on my ME2 imports. Damn you BW for taking away Kelly Chambers and replacing her with that Samantha Traynor and damn you for replacing TIM with that chatty bastard Hackett on the debriefings.

I will never understand your hatred for Hackett.
The old man just wants some love.

And on a serious note.
The bodyscanner wouldnt be so bad if you didnt have to stand still for 7 seconds every time.
Doesnt sound like much, but its so goddamn annoying.
ITS MY SHIP!
If i want to carry a gun on MY ship i should damn well do so. I AM THE CAPTAIN!

[Oerba Yun Fang]

The scanner is the only part of the new Normandy I didn't like. It just seemed really unnecessary to me.

[Succath]

The scanner is the only part of the new Normandy I didn't like. It just seemed really unnecessary to me.

It does not seem that way IT IS totally unnecesarry :P

[Deleted]

It does not seem that way IT IS totally unnecesarry :P

Not entirly.
They wanted something to annoy us before the end.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

It does not seem that way IT IS totally unnecesarry :P

Fair enough.

---------- Post added 2012-05-12 at 12:56 PM ----------

Just saw this on the Wiki. It's so cute!

[Duncanîdaho]

The scanner is the only part of the new Normandy I didn't like. It just seemed really unnecessary to me.

I guarantee the only reason it is there is loading issues. They probably did not have enough space to load the entire deck of the Normandy and all the war asset stuff. It's there because they needed a loading buffer between the deck and the war assets. When you pass through it one way or the other, what's really going on is the rest of the ship or the war assets and the war room is getting loaded. Only logical reason I can think of. It was the same thing with the elevators in the earlier games while you listened to that pleasant music wondering why the hell this was in the game.

It doesn't take to long to load, so it did not warrant a full loading screen. Instead they have an interactive load screen where you can listen to your crew talk while it's going on.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Wouldn't surprise me. Would also explain why the times spent in it are different (Gravath mentioned 7 seconds and I'm in there 3 seconds tops).

Either way I'll take it over those god forsaken elevators in ME1. Those things still annoy the hell out of me. lol

[Adam Jensen]

Wouldn't surprise me. Would also explain why the times spent in it are different (Gravath mentioned 7 seconds and I'm in there 3 seconds tops).

Either way I'll take it over those god forsaken elevators in ME1. Those things still annoy the hell out of me. lol

Worst one was in Noveria. 30 minutes into the base, hop onto an elevator and the dumb thing won't move or let me step off.

Most recent save is back on the Mako >.<

Fortunately it worked once I got back to it again.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Worst one was in Noveria. 30 minutes into the base, hop onto an elevator and the dumb thing won't move or let me step off.

Most recent save is back on the Mako >.<

Fortunately it worked once I got back to it again.

Precisely why I quicksave like every 5 steps nowadays. XD

[Duncanîdaho]

Remember the guy in the Citadel entrance in ME2? "Sorry for the inconvenience sir." Twice. While you waited for that door to open. Same thing but Bioware actually gave you an apology lol. I always found that hilarious.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Remember the guy in the Citadel entrance in ME2? "Sorry for the inconvenience sir." Twice. While you waited for that door to open. Same thing but Bioware actually gave you an apology lol. I always found that hilarious.

I don't remember that guy actually. O.o

[Duncanîdaho]

I don't remember that guy actually. O.o

He's there You will definitely notice him next time.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...ndex/5503736/1

[Oerba Yun Fang]

He's there You will definitely notice him next time.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...ndex/5503736/1

Been through it multiple times and never noticed anyone saying the same thing twice in a row...


You certain it's not just an issue on consoles? Because I play on the PC.

[Duncanîdaho]

Ahh yah that's probably it. I play on Xbox. Things so far behind the times when it comes to hardware.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Tell me about it. Doesn't that thing only have like half a gig of memory? lol

[Succath]

Been through it multiple times and never noticed anyone saying the same thing twice in a row...


You certain it's not just an issue on consoles? Because I play on the PC.

Yup i also play on the Pc and no double sentence.