U.S. Presidential race - Republican Discussion

[Laize]

This is still not a valid line of reasoning to literally count the vote of a Wyoming resident for more than the vote of a resident of another start.

Good thing no one counts the votes of the residents instead of Congress then.

[Dacien]

The Biden line was pretty entertaining though. This might be because I have a movie crush on Eastwood though, and I tend to find anything he goes better than most people do. The voice alone does wonders. I was one of the few people that loved the Super Bowl ad. That didn't really have much to do with the content, I just thought it was an incredibly well done ad, with great thematics.

Oh he's an American icon. People love Clint Eastwood, he personifies American ruggedness and independence.

[oblivionx]

Libel and slander are crimes, or at the very least should be.

From Wikipedia:


Lying only serves to harm the American public by misinforming them of the truth, and as such is a threat to the stability to the nation. I want standards, dammit. Jail time might be severe, but there needs to be repercussions.

Edit: I am not well versed in the field of law, so if I am wrong I apologize.

Larry Flynt vs Jerry Fallwell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hustler...ine_v._Falwell

[Dacien]

This article pretty much shows what's up with the world's 9th largest economy:









http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...367486316.html

Outside of Silicon Valley, they have been coasting or slowing down for 15 years. They're even starting to lose the tech sector now. Who is left there to rein in the progressive policies destroying the business climate?

Dacien.

He's their last hope.

Unfortunately, unless he combines with ACORN, he won't be able to cast enough votes to turn it around. 30 years from now, the only people left will be government workers, government dependents, and George Clooney.

Thank you for posting that. A lot of people have no idea how bad it is in California, and how bad our trajectory looks. People hand wave it away, but unless steps are taken to reduce pension costs, encourage business, simplify regulation, and address high taxes, California is in for some hurt. It's mathematically impossible to sustain our trejectory, and just recently Jerry Brown unveiled a plan for pension reform on new hires only. So while we might see some savings in 2040 or 2050, the current employee pension costs will simply be crushing right now, into 2020 and 2030.

This is to say nothing of their business hostility, one of the worst business tax climates in the nation, and crippling regulation. I've posted about CKE a few times.

[Laize]

Thank you for posting that. A lot of people have no idea how bad it is in California, and how bad our trajectory looks. People hand wave it away, but unless steps are taken to reduce pension costs, encourage business, simplify regulation, and address high taxes, California is in for some hurt. It's mathematically impossible to sustain our trejectory, and just recently Jerry Brown unveiled a plan for pension reform on new hires only. So while we might see some savings in 2040 or 2050, the current employee pension costs will simply be crushing right now, into 2020 and 2030.

This is to say nothing of their business hostility, one of the worst business tax climates in the nation, and crippling regulation. I've posted about CKE a few times.

Man... I'm from NJ... fuck me sideways.

[belfpala]

This is to say nothing of their business hostility, one of the worst business tax climates in the nation, and crippling regulation. I've posted about CKE a few times.

[map]

I'm just curious why CA and some of the other states on the "hostile" end also have a reputation for fostering businesses. HQ's, innovation, all that.

[Dacien]

Man... I'm from NJ... fuck me sideways.

Yeah but you guys got a kick ass governor who understands that the situation isn't acceptable, and is looking out for you, the taxpayer. I'm very jealous.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 02:52 PM ----------

I'm just curious why CA and some of the other states on the "hostile" end also have a reputation for fostering businesses. HQ's, innovation, all that.

Well I can't speak to that reputation, because I don't know much about it. All I can speak to is right now, business leaders have gone public saying that they feel California isn't just over-regulated, but is hostile towards business. And the tax climate speaks volumes.

[Kalyyn]

I'm just curious why CA and some of the other states on the "hostile" end also have a reputation for fostering businesses. HQ's, innovation, all that.

California used to be a great place to start a business. And for a long time, even after it became shitty, people kept going there just because everyone else was already there.
Now businesses are finally getting fed up with the whole deal, and moving to Texas.

[Laize]

Yeah but you guys got a kick ass governor who understands that the situation isn't acceptable, and is looking out for you, the taxpayer. I'm very jealous.

Not gonna lie, Christie is probably the best state governor in the country right now.

[belfpala]

California used to be a great place to start a business. And for a long time, even after it became shitty, people kept going there just because everyone else was already there.
Now businesses are finally getting fed up with the whole deal, and moving to Texas.

I thought about it a bit more. At least three of the states I was referencing have exceptionally good public university systems. Could that be a reason businesses tend to go there or start there? Educated workforce?

[Wells]

Bullshit it does.

3 votes for Wyoming isn't a frigging game breaker. And it forces candidates to give a shit about the midwest.

States' Rights and all that.

If we give states electoral votes disproportionate to their population then you're making some votes count more than others. If I'm in california my vote is a smaller chunk of an electoral college vote than if I'm in Colorado. Its wrong.

If candidates don't give a shit about places with no one in them then that sucks but its reality. Some backwater simply doesn't deserve the same amount of attention as a mega state.

[Shadowmelded]

Funny. I'd take the political system of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Ireland, the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourgh, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Slovenia, Malta, Japan, South Korea and probobly a few more countries any day over that of the United States political system. Guess it's a good thing you live in the United States and I live in one of the other countries I mentioned then. We can both be happy.

I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with the system used in the US, just that a certain group of people have been using it to polarise the nation because they benefit from it. I mean the UK and Dutch systems are equally flawed. Look at the house of Lords and the sudden violent direction change to populist politics and soundbyte politicians. Holland hasn't finished an entire political term fully in the last 4 elections and the government is usually filled with multiple coalitions. French parties are basically designed around one figure and after their term in office continue to be a poster-party for that figure.

I could do this all day but since this is a US politics thread I'll end it here, tl;dr The American system while in need of a few tune ups, isn't the disaster people make it out to be.

[Kalyyn]

I thought about it a bit more. At least three of the states I was referencing have exceptionally good public university systems. Could that be a reason businesses tend to go there or start there? Educated workforce?

That's entirely possible, actually. Hadn't thought of that.

[Wells]

I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with the system used in the US, just that a certain group of people have been using it to polarise the nation because they benefit from it. I mean the UK and Dutch systems are equally flawed. Look at the house of Lords and the sudden violent direction change to populist politics and soundbyte politicians. Holland hasn't finished an entire political term fully in the last 4 elections and the government is usually filled with multiple coalitions. French parties are basically designed around one figure and after their term in office continue to be a poster-party for that figure.

I could do this all day but since this is a US politics thread I'll end it here, tl;dr The American system while in need of a few tune ups, isn't the disaster people make it out to be.

IDK, if we were rewriting our government I'd be more inclined to want a parliamentary system with some hold outs from our current one.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 10:07 PM ----------

I thought about it a bit more. At least three of the states I was referencing have exceptionally good public university systems. Could that be a reason businesses tend to go there or start there? Educated workforce?

Infrastructure is part of it too. If I'm starting up a high tech firm I'm going where the internet infrastructure is.

[belfpala]

If candidates don't give a shit about places with no one in them then that sucks but its reality. Some backwater simply doesn't deserve the same amount of attention as a mega state.

Also: depending how you define "the Midwest", it has 65 million people or more. That should be enough for any politician to care. (I know definitions vary, and I'll admit mine includes Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Illinois).

[oblivionx]

Let's just make the vote for president how many states you carry.

Fair enough?

[Kalyyn]

Also: depending how you define "the Midwest", it has 65 million people or more. That should be enough for any politician to care. (I know definitions vary, and I'll admit mine includes Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Illinois).

Is there any definition of the midwest that doesn't include Indiana?

Also, off-topic, but I have a friend who lives in California who, I kid you not, thought Indiana was a southern state. mfw O.o

[conscript]

Bullshit it does.

3 votes for Wyoming isn't a frigging game breaker. And it forces candidates to give a shit about the midwest.

States' Rights and all that.

Someone several pages ago linked a video about the electoral college. It literally doesn't in any way force the presidential candidates to give any sort of a shit about the midwest. They still spend every minute possible in Ohio, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Florida. They don't spend money or time in the states because they simply don't matter at all in the election. Even with their vastly disproportionate power in the electoral college, they still don't even begin to matter in the Presidential election.

[Laize]

If we give states electoral votes disproportionate to their population then you're making some votes count more than others. If I'm in california my vote is a smaller chunk of an electoral college vote than if I'm in Colorado. Its wrong.

If candidates don't give a shit about places with no one in them then that sucks but its reality. Some backwater simply doesn't deserve the same amount of attention as a mega state.

Well... it'll never change. To amend it you'd basically be asking sparsely populated states (Who get perfectly equal voting rights in the Amendment Process) to give up their right to be heard. Considering the majority of the country lives in 10 states and you need 38 to get an amendment passed you should probably get used to it.

That's coming from someone who lives in a state with 15 votes.

[belfpala]

Is there any definition of the midwest that doesn't include Indiana?

Also, off-topic, but I have a friend who lives in California who, I kid you not, thought Indiana was a southern state. mfw O.o

The US Census defines it as: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota and Wisconsin.

Wyoming isn't included apparently.