U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[ptwonline]

North American oil is far less... refined than middle eastern and black sea oil. It requires a lot of additional processing in it, meaning that the cost of producing gas from it is higher. So they have to lower their efficiency in order to even compete with overseas prices (I think east coast refineries are stuck at around 60% capacity). It sounds like there is a lot, but its not as much as it sounds

While it's true that it requires more refining, that's not even the issue. It's the EXTRACTION that is the limiting factor. This isn't a pocket of oil that you just need to stick a pipe into. The oil is stuck is mixed with sand--hence "tarsands"--and it has to be dug up, trucked out, and then run through an extraction process.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 02:48 PM ----------

That would be funny as hell if it wasn't so true.

Then it must be funny because it's not true.

[ishootblanks]

While it's true that it requires more refining, that's not even the issue. It's the EXTRACTION that is the limiting factor. This isn't a pocket of oil that you just need to stick a pipe into. The oil is stuck is mixed with sand--hence "tarsands"--and it has to be dug up, trucked out, and then run through an extraction process.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 02:48 PM ----------



Then it must be funny because it's not true.

oh but it is true.. it's just.. harder now.. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...id-approaches/

the catch in washington is that police and government officials are not allowed to to ask a person for proof of citizenship.. where as before you could simply walk into the DMV and say "hi! I'm illegal and need a license!!" now the illegal has to lie to get it..

[Wells]

That's only half of your claim.

[Sunseeker]

the catch in washington is that police and government officials are not allowed to to ask a person for proof of citizenship.. where as before you could simply walk into the DMV and say "hi! I'm illegal and need a license!!" now the illegal has to lie to get it..

I'm still feeling that that should in general be the default. Police should assume you are a citizen before they assume you are not. It's understandable that people are jaded and cynical these days and there are plenty of reasons to be, but this only increases those reasons, not decreases them. As a society as a whole we should be working towards being better friends with our neighbors, not alienating them. Next we'll starting thinking it's a good idea to start a citizen-spy program where we reward people for playing "got-cha!" instead of rewarding people for helping each other make the right decisions to begin with.

[Shadowmelded]

I'm a firm believer in that if the source is making a valid point in a logical manner that at least had some thought behind it.. it should be considered..

can we agree on that?

'Valid' is pretty subjective, as is 'logical' The amount of thought put into an article does nothing to prove it's validity.

[Sunseeker]

'Valid' is pretty subjective, as is 'logical' The amount of thought put into an article does nothing to prove it's validity.

I don't think that's very accurate, and it largely depends on the subject. In politics, you're generally right. It doesn't matter what you say because 99% of everything in that subject is going to be opinion of one form or another. Though the statistical side is less subject to that however. In most other subjects, such as science or mathematics, logic and thought is highly important towards the validity of an article. When you bring those sorts of subjects into the political arena, the amount of thought and logic put into them is still very important.

[ishootblanks]

I'm still feeling that that should in general be the default. Police should assume you are a citizen before they assume you are not. It's understandable that people are jaded and cynical these days and there are plenty of reasons to be, but this only increases those reasons, not decreases them. As a society as a whole we should be working towards being better friends with our neighbors, not alienating them. Next we'll starting thinking it's a good idea to start a citizen-spy program where we reward people for playing "got-cha!" instead of rewarding people for helping each other make the right decisions to begin with.

I agree with you.. but unfortunately laws are preventing law enforcement agencies from enforcing the laws at all.. police and government officials are unable to ask a person their citizenship status for any reason in Washington..

[Sunseeker]

I agree with you.. but unfortunately laws are preventing law enforcement agencies from enforcing the laws at all.. police and government officials are unable to ask a person their citizenship status for any reason in Washington..

Again, that's not really a problem. If you are uncertain about someone's citizenship, then asking someone to "show you their papers" is either going to get you forged papers or piss of a legal citizen. Neither of which provide a useful solution. If the police are uncertain about a person's citizenship, then there are specific channels that they can go through for that information.

I mean to be fair, the police should be arresting everyone who doesn't have an ID on them and putting them in holding until they can get some(which doesn't make much sense, since it's likely just sitting on their desk or in their car).

This whole thing is a big waste of time and taxpayer money, and all it achieves aside from that is pissing off legal citizens. If you're unsure about someone's citizenship, there are channels for that.

[Kasierith]

I agree with you.. but unfortunately laws are preventing law enforcement agencies from enforcing the laws at all.. police and government officials are unable to ask a person their citizenship status for any reason in Washington..

Actually, I was told that I could have my papers checked at any time to determine my nationality, and without some show of being in the US legally, ie my papers, could be deported. That said, foreigners in the US share all the rights that citizens do, therefore there are only certain times when a police officer can require you show your ID (pulled over or being legally detained being the most usual suspects).

[Shadowmelded]

I don't think that's very accurate, and it largely depends on the subject. In politics, you're generally right. It doesn't matter what you say because 99% of everything in that subject is going to be opinion of one form or another. Though the statistical side is less subject to that however. In most other subjects, such as science or mathematics, logic and thought is highly important towards the validity of an article. When you bring those sorts of subjects into the political arena, the amount of thought and logic put into them is still very important.

Yeah, I was kinda referring to this particular topic :P Although I still stand by the claim that quantity is not a garauntee of quality. It's not a garauntee of a lack of quality either, but purely because someone has put a lot of time into something, doesn't mean we should accept it and discuss it as if it was valid, when it could be something as nonsensical as 'Why Party x wants to dominate the world'

Edit: Just realised how I worded the initial post that you were replying to, it came across as if I was saying that time invested plays no role at all, I understand the reply now lol.

[Wells]

Fully expecting an at least partial removal of Obamacare tomorrow. Conservative majority has that effect.

[Sunseeker]

Fully expecting an at least partial removal of Obamacare tomorrow. Conservative majority has that effect.

Probably. Politicizing the Supreme Court is pretty bullshit. If we're going to do that they need to lose their life terms.

[Wells]

Probably. Politicizing the Supreme Court is pretty bullshit. If we're going to do that they need to lose their life terms.

Just need to put better judges on the bench.

[Sunseeker]

Just need to put better judges on the bench.

Well, there's that, but that ain't gonna happen until congress gets their collective heads out of their asses.

[Wells]

Well, there's that, but that ain't gonna happen until congress gets their collective heads out of their asses.

All comes down to campaign finance.

[Wells]

Lot of people can lose care or have care they would have been gotten taken away tomorrow.

[KingHorse]

All this hand wringing over a bill (potentially) being declared unconstitutional.

You like it. We get it. But the Supreme Court is the end of the line. If something is unconstitutional, it should be put down.

[Wells]

What was the point to that?

[Wells]

It still doesn't mean I can't be upset about returning to the status quo. This shit affects my pocket book directly.

If our politicians had another proposal waiting in the wings "just in case" I would be significantly less worried. That's not the case.

There's some push on the left for a medicare for all system.

[Sunseeker]

There's some push on the left for a medicare for all system.

And one of the two systems the right is drooling to get rid of completely is going to be expanded? Ha. They'd sooner cut their own paychecks.