U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[starlord]

I don't flat out ignore them. I know them to exist, but I don't see them as any real threat. Personally, I'm voting for Romney because I believe that it will result in the overall better health of the nation in the long run. Don't assume that because people support Obama that other rights aren't as equally on the line.

I'll give you some personal examples though since I doubt you believe me:

Two of my best friends are day and now married in the state of Iowa. I have keen interest in having that being allowed, despite my family being against it.

Paul Ryan is supposedly against in vitro fertilization. My wife and have been trying to have a kid for years and finally took that route. When it was apparent that the child was going to have severe issues and would risk her life, we had to abort.

One of my cousins is gay and is getting married to his partner of five years in 2013.

So yes, those ideals do affect me. If you want to go on assuming that everything is black and white, feel free to do so, but you aren't helping the problem. You are just another side of the coin that is just as much of a problem as the other is claimed to be.

it seems like the only reason you think they are better is because of a rather large assumption on your part, though.

[KingHorse]

I don't flat out ignore them. <edit for length>

Careful there, might make people think the opposition is actually capable of rational thought, and not the evil kitten eating monsters their TV tells them you are.

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Yah, I doubt it.

[Dakia]

it seems like the only reason you think they are better is because of a rather large assumption on your part, though.

Isn't that pretty much the same assumption that every voter in the US is making right now? They are voting for a candidate because they think that person will be better for the country either in the short or the long term.

Well, that is unless they are from the future.

[Spectral]

Careful there, might make people think the opposition is actually capable of rational thought, and not the evil kitten eating monsters their TV tells them you are.

I don't think all Republicans are evil, or even many of them. I doubt I'd say there's much of a "quality of person" difference between the left and right and all. I will say that some of the positions supported by Congressional Republicans are spectacularly evil though, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to reconcile that with my basic belief that most voters are decent enough people.

[starlord]

Careful there, might make people think the opposition is actually capable of rational thought, and not the evil kitten eating monsters their TV tells them you are.

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Yah, I doubt it.

its well documented that perfectly normal people can rationalize their way into supporting "kitten eating monsters."

[belfpala]

Just for a little humor break... http://xkcd.com/1130/ (don't forget the mouseover text)

[Son of Lothar]

Paul Ryan is supposedly against in vitro fertilization. My wife and have been trying to have a kid for years and finally took that route. When it was apparent that the child was going to have severe issues and would risk her life, we had to abort.

Please dont say you "had" to abort. You chose to abort. There needs to be some accountability here. My wife and I would do whatever it took to make sure another life had an opportunity to live at its full potential regardless of whatever "issues" it may have.

[KingHorse]

its well documented that perfectly normal people can rationalize their way into supporting "kitten eating monsters."

About as well documented as people believing the talking head or disembodied voice that tells them that the other guy eats kittens, wants to burn your grand mother at the stake, wants to turn your children gay, or is a grand-high-poobah in a Cthulhu worshiping church.

I don't think all Republicans are evil, or even many of them. I doubt I'd say there's much of a "quality of person" difference between the left and right and all. I will say that some of the positions supported by Congressional Republicans are spectacularly evil though, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to reconcile that with my basic belief that most voters are decent enough people.

Most voters are decent people, but they're all busy people. Most simply don't have the time to evaluate the candidates and see some of the batshit crazy things they say. So they're pretty much the football fan that picks a team based on the team colors. They just don't know any better, and don't have time to learn it.

[Dakia]

Careful there, might make people think the opposition is actually capable of rational thought, and not the evil kitten eating monsters their TV tells them you are.

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Yah, I doubt it.

I just get tired of being immediately attacked as being an irrational, bible thumping, homosexual hating, racist any time I support a policy that isn't on the Democrat platform and support a Republican candidate. No darenyon, I'm not saying that you are calling me all of those things. However, I do get varying forms of those sentiments all the time simply because I support one candidate over another. The left in this country likes to bash the right as being irrational, hateful and generally resistant to outside ideas, but the converse is also true. They fail to actually look in the mirror just as much as the right.

Guess what, I supported Obama for the first election. I didn't think he had much of a leg to stand on, but I was willing to take a chance on a politician that appeared to be out of the norm and would actually change things. I really don't see that to be the case over the course of his administration thus far.

[starlord]

Isn't that pretty much the same assumption that every voter in the US is making right now? They are voting for a candidate because they think that person will be better for the country either in the short or the long term.

Well, that is unless they are from the future.

no, your assumption is that certain policies wont get passed. i have a hard time believing you really think such legislation would be good for the country, from your examples.

[Spectral]

Please dont say you "had" to abort. You chose to abort. There needs to be some accountability here. My wife and I would do whatever it took to make sure another life had an opportunity to live at its full potential regardless of whatever "issues" it may have.

Yeah, Dakia probably needs to be more accountable for his wife choosing to live. Great point.

[KingHorse]

Please dont say you "had" to abort. You chose to abort. There needs to be some accountability here. My wife and I would do whatever it took to make sure another life had an opportunity to live at its full potential regardless of whatever "issues" it may have.

I would stand by "to save the life of the mother" as pretty much the definition of "had to".

[Dakia]

Please dont say you "had" to abort. You chose to abort. There needs to be some accountability here. My wife and I would do whatever it took to make sure another life had an opportunity to live at its full potential regardless of whatever "issues" it may have.

While it is a true that we chose to abort, we felt like there was no other decision to be made. The child would have likely not made it to term and further continuation of the pregnancy would have only put my wife's life in serious danger. To our view, we really had no other choice.

no, your assumption is that certain policies wont get passed. i have a hard time believing you really think such legislation would be good for the country, from your examples.

I don't really understand how you can't comprehend that support for either candidate, or any candidate over an opponent, is really making that same gamble. I have yet to find a politician that I fully agree with on every issue.

I don't think that legislation would be good for the country at all. However, I feel that even if such legislation was passed, I don't think that such legislation would stand up in the SCOTUS.

[starlord]

I don't really understand how you can't comprehend that support for either candidate, or any candidate over an opponent, is really making that same gamble. I have yet to find a politician that I fully agree with on every issue.

I don't think that legislation would be good for the country at all. However, I feel that even if such legislation was passed, I don't think that such legislation would stand up in the SCOTUS.

of course not every issue will be palatable.. but an entire social policy? and your only justification is "someone else will stand up to defend against it, maybe." its such an apathetic position to take...

[Dakia]

of course not every issue will be palatable.. but an entire social policy? and your only justification is "someone else will stand up to defend against it, maybe." its such an apathetic position to take...

It isn't their entire social policy, but it is a significant reason that some vote Republican. Just like the entire Democrat social policy doesn't solely revolve around gay marriage and right to choose.

And no, my position isn't that "someone else will stand up to defend against it, maybe." You're reaching and trying to put words in to my mouth. I prefer to have a balance of powers in that at least one branch of the legislature is of the opposing party as a counter balance. I regularly voice my opinions to my congressmen and elected officials, which includes regular requests for the Republican party to drop the religious ideals. Me saying that I don't believe such legislation won't stand up in the SCOTUS isn't an apathetic position so much as it is a statement of opinion about the realities of our government and my thoughts on a what I believe to be a likely outcome.

What would you rather I do given the avenues provided to me as a citizen?

[starlord]

I just get tired of being immediately attacked as being an irrational, bible thumping, homosexual hating, racist any time I support a policy that isn't on the Democrat platform and support a Republican candidate. No darenyon, I'm not saying that you are calling me all of those things. However, I do get varying forms of those sentiments all the time simply because I support one candidate over another. The left in this country likes to bash the right as being irrational, hateful and generally resistant to outside ideas, but the converse is also true. They fail to actually look in the mirror just as much as the right.

Guess what, I supported Obama for the first election. I didn't think he had much of a leg to stand on, but I was willing to take a chance on a politician that appeared to be out of the norm and would actually change things. I really don't see that to be the case over the course of his administration thus far.

im not trying to label you, just pointing out that many people who are voting republican are either ignorant of or willing to take some fairly large gambles with their own & others rights. i dont see how supporting all that craziness on the off chance the ever changing economy of all things will be better is really worth it. it was an excuse used to continue slavery for so long, and it bothers me to see the same rationale in this day. it really will have a lasting effect on America, despite what you think.

[Slammin Shaman]

Nate Silver is currently giving Obama a 91.4% chance of victory. I can't wait until Thanksgiving so I can taunt my Tea Party cousin!

[belfpala]

Nate Silver is currently giving Obama a 91.4% chance of victory. I can't wait until Thanksgiving so I can taunt my Tea Party cousin!

Remember, 91.4% chance still means Romney has an 8.6% chance according to the model. Silver isn't wrong even if Romney gets elected (unless you can repeat the election a statistically significant number of times and Romney doesn't win 8.6% of them).

[Kraenen]

Nate Silver is currently giving Obama a 91.4% chance of victory. I can't wait until Thanksgiving so I can taunt my Tea Party cousin!

That's gonna be one of those sit com thanksgivings where it starts out all nice and elaborate but hits some critical issue that was long since hidden underneath, it all goes to hell but then at the last minute everyone remembers why they love eachother and why it's thanksgiving.

[Dakia]

im not trying to label you, just pointing out that many people who are voting republican are either ignorant of or willing to take some fairly large gambles with their own & others rights. i dont see how supporting all that craziness on the off chance the ever changing economy of all things will be better is really worth it. it was an excuse used to continue slavery for so long, and it bothers me to see the same rationale in this day. it really will have a lasting effect on America, despite what you think.

Really, you are labeling me. You should go back and read your previous posts. You've basically said that Republican social policies don't affect me, which makes it easy to ignore, and that I am apathetic simply because I feel a certain outcome to be likely in the American way of government.

Do you support every single one of the policies held by the Democrats, or whichever party you tend to affiliate yourself with? How do you rationalize agreeing with said party even though you may disagree with those policies?

Also, to those who hold those beliefs and ideals, it isn't necessarily crazy. Sure the world is ever evolving, but simply because a belief is different from your own does not make it crazy. Hell, I disagree with what to me appears to be an effort by some on the left to control what the American people can and can't do with their own bodies. Sure, this isn't the same as abortion or gay marriage, but they target certain foods or amounts, types of foods, types of drinks and (on these boards) I have seen people propose a fat tax. I don't call them crazy, despite the fact that I think those ideas are a little out there. I can see their arguments and rationalization for those arguments. I certainly disagree with certain policies, but I don't go about calling a portion of the country crazy simply because they hold different ideals and beliefs that I do.

Nate Silver is currently giving Obama a 91.4% chance of victory. I can't wait until Thanksgiving so I can taunt my Tea Party cousin!

I think that Obama will come out with the win, given how the electoral college will come out in the end. Do yourself a favor though and don't taunt your cousin, even if he has taunted you in the past. That is, unless you are willing to sit there and take it at any point in the future knowing that you just perpetuated the partisan hatred in our country.