Amount of skill in PvP

[rektbrah]

Is there truly any skill in the PvP of this game? From what I've gathered it's really just a spam of abilities. Pressing whatever's off cooldown. How do I come to this conclusion?

a) Auto following camera. Gone are the days where you'd run around your opponent to interrupt a cast. Every time you cast something your character turns and faces your target. It's mind numbingly boring. This is my number 1 gripe.

b) The abilites. This ones a bit difficult to explain but its the main reason. If you're being opened on by someone and you're at 75% in a 1v1 with equal gear etc chances are you'll lose. There are too many attacking abilities and not enough utility. For instance mercenaries are a prime example: They have about 10 abilities which deal damage and 1 unique form of CC (knockback when specced). It doesn't feel as though you outplay your opponent, it just feels like who can get more damage in at once. The utility and cc from the classes feels (well in fact is) the same.

(inc. WoW reference) In WoW for example, on my mage I was able to successfully 2v1 most people (and a memorable 4v1) due to managing my utility and control as well as countering what the other player did. I also remember levelling an alt mage (and he was about level 73~) when I killed an 80 DK ganking me, twice. What do I do in SWtOR? Try and gib him before he gibs me. Yes, I'll go in for the knockback to get an interrupt off, but what then? I have nothing else. On my Warrior I had Pummel, Spell Reflect, Imp hammy, intimidating shout, heroic throw (when specced), disarm. On my Juggernaut I get interrupt, force push and a mass cc. Warriors have double the amount of CC/interrupts than Juggernauts and were not known for their ability to CC.

I suppose the skill in this game comes in the form of team based games. For example a Juggernaut guarding a healer and taunting a dps off him when the healer is about to score and on 15% hp. But its still a shame that 1v1 has been left in the dark. I guess this is why people are enjoying the PvP (don't get me wrong I enjoy it, just 1v1's seem a bit bland), due to the fact that the only thing required is the know-how to press an ability over and over again and be moderately successful.

TL;DR Game is balanced around team based play which means there is little individual skill and 1v1's are incredibly boring and bland, with little to separate 2 players

edit: For the record, I play a merc (and he's boring as shit) and currently levelling a Juggernaut.

I am a Battlemaster for what it's worth and I agree with the OP.

Gear aside, there is very little that sets one player apart from another because the skill ceiling is so low. Most classes have 1-3 tricks up their sleves and that's about it. Combat in general is very shallow. Team-play still makes it fun, but the actual fighting is meh.

Just compare a Swifty duel video with a 1v1 video in SWTOR. There's 10x times more going on in any WoW duel than there is in a SWTOR duel. Baiting interrupts, fake-casting, various CDs, movement etc.

I find this especially frustrating on my Guardian where I have very little defensive tools. I have no way of "going defensive" when dropping to low HP. The best I can hope for is to take someone down with me before my inevitable death.

This post pretty much sums everything up

[welko]

Is there truly any skill in the PvP of this game? From what I've gathered it's really just a spam of abilities. Pressing whatever's off cooldown. How do I come to this conclusion?

a) Auto following camera. Gone are the days where you'd run around your opponent to interrupt a cast. Every time you cast something your character turns and faces your target. It's mind numbingly boring. This is my number 1 gripe.

b) The abilites. This ones a bit difficult to explain but its the main reason. If you're being opened on by someone and you're at 75% in a 1v1 with equal gear etc chances are you'll lose. There are too many attacking abilities and not enough utility. For instance mercenaries are a prime example: They have about 10 abilities which deal damage and 1 unique form of CC (knockback when specced). It doesn't feel as though you outplay your opponent, it just feels like who can get more damage in at once. The utility and cc from the classes feels (well in fact is) the same.

(inc. WoW reference) In WoW for example, on my mage I was able to successfully 2v1 most people (and a memorable 4v1) due to managing my utility and control as well as countering what the other player did. I also remember levelling an alt mage (and he was about level 73~) when I killed an 80 DK ganking me, twice. What do I do in SWtOR? Try and gib him before he gibs me. Yes, I'll go in for the knockback to get an interrupt off, but what then? I have nothing else. On my Warrior I had Pummel, Spell Reflect, Imp hammy, intimidating shout, heroic throw (when specced), disarm. On my Juggernaut I get interrupt, force push and a mass cc. Warriors have double the amount of CC/interrupts than Juggernauts and were not known for their ability to CC.

I suppose the skill in this game comes in the form of team based games. For example a Juggernaut guarding a healer and taunting a dps off him when the healer is about to score and on 15% hp. But its still a shame that 1v1 has been left in the dark. I guess this is why people are enjoying the PvP (don't get me wrong I enjoy it, just 1v1's seem a bit bland), due to the fact that the only thing required is the know-how to press an ability over and over again and be moderately successful.

TL;DR Game is balanced around team based play which means there is little individual skill and 1v1's are incredibly boring and bland, with little to separate 2 players

edit: For the record, I play a merc (and he's boring as shit) and currently levelling a Juggernaut.

What this sounds to me is that you want all the CC/interrupts on one class like a mage and destroy people in SWTOR. That is why WOW pvp is so unbalanced. SWTOR PVP is just fine(not perfect). I agree their WORLD PVP needs alot of work before it is even good but their 1v1 2v1 2v2 etc is very balanced compared to WOW. Also funny that WOW actually admitted that FROST MAGES may have to much control in PVP. Yeah took you 7 years to realize this really.


One last thing with classes having alot less CC/interrupts is what lets you know who is actually good with that class then by having all this CC/interrupts.

[vizzle]

Eh, I think every class has a small skill cap, the only class where you can really see good players is marauders/sentinels imo. A lot of times on my Commando I feel as if there is just nothing I can do, because I don't have the utility.

I would love to play a sentinel but I don't wanna lose the rank 65 valor I have on my Commando.

[Dakia]

edit: For the record, I play a merc (and he's boring as shit) and currently levelling a Juggernaut.

You aren't going to find Juggs much more entertaining. Basically, you just sit there with your guard on a healer and taunt the crap out of everyone around. You're a meat shield and that's about it.

[Redblade]

a) Auto following camera. Gone are the days where you'd run around your opponent to interrupt a cast. Every time you cast something your character turns and faces your target. It's mind numbingly boring. This is my number 1 gripe.

Sadly the flip side is that it's extremely easy for a melee to avoid all non instant cast abilities by simply running through the player, it's not as black and white as saying one requires more skill than the other. I'd say it's a good thing the game is balanced around group play and not the 1 vs 1 arena style balance WoW has, it is after all a multiplayer game not a 90's fighter arcade.

[Adeodatus]

PvP is much better when its balance around group play. Not just PvP, but PvE as well since balance changes don't bleed over.

[Pachurick]

What this sounds to me is that you want all the CC/interrupts on one class like a mage and destroy people in SWTOR. That is why WOW pvp is so unbalanced. SWTOR PVP is just fine(not perfect). I agree their WORLD PVP needs alot of work before it is even good but their 1v1 2v1 2v2 etc is very balanced compared to WOW. Also funny that WOW actually admitted that FROST MAGES may have to much control in PVP. Yeah took you 7 years to realize this really.


One last thing with classes having alot less CC/interrupts is what lets you know who is actually good with that class then by having all this CC/interrupts.

Could not have stated my own feelings better then this. Seems like your crying out for SWTOR to make your a MAGE like class. Who are in my opinion, Mages are the heart of WoW's unbalanced PvP system...

[kreb]

if you really want alot of different abilities to change the tide of a 1v1 fight, i would recommend you to roll marauder instead before it is too late. Till you are full champion geared unfortunately, you wont feel what i mean, however once you are you will be capable of controlling most of the 1v1 fights, unskilled player on a marauder will just press any button that deals X dmg and it wont matter that much, most of the time will lose, however a skilled one and i am asuming anyone is capable of doing that given the time and dedication, will get out with 90% hp remaining on a 1v1 situation unless faced a scoundrel / operative.
However, down side is that a marauder brings the worse to a group, keep that in mind. What i mean is, especially in the type warzones are right now, a group can easly benefit from any other class ATLEAST the same amount as from a marauder, most of the time alot better.
Dont get me wrong, didnt say cant beat scoundrel/operative, just said they open strong, you wont get to kill them when you are 90% =P

edit: Lets dont turn this to balance thread please, even worse compare to another mmo either. Title says it all, amount of skill in pvp, go.

[Agent Mercury]

Is there truly any skill in the PvP of this game? From what I've gathered it's really just a spam of abilities. Pressing whatever's off cooldown. How do I come to this conclusion?

a) Auto following camera. Gone are the days where you'd run around your opponent to interrupt a cast. Every time you cast something your character turns and faces your target. It's mind numbingly boring. This is my number 1 gripe.

b) The abilites. This ones a bit difficult to explain but its the main reason. If you're being opened on by someone and you're at 75% in a 1v1 with equal gear etc chances are you'll lose. There are too many attacking abilities and not enough utility. For instance mercenaries are a prime example: They have about 10 abilities which deal damage and 1 unique form of CC (knockback when specced). It doesn't feel as though you outplay your opponent, it just feels like who can get more damage in at once. The utility and cc from the classes feels (well in fact is) the same.

(inc. WoW reference) In WoW for example, on my mage I was able to successfully 2v1 most people (and a memorable 4v1) due to managing my utility and control as well as countering what the other player did. I also remember levelling an alt mage (and he was about level 73~) when I killed an 80 DK ganking me, twice. What do I do in SWtOR? Try and gib him before he gibs me. Yes, I'll go in for the knockback to get an interrupt off, but what then? I have nothing else. On my Warrior I had Pummel, Spell Reflect, Imp hammy, intimidating shout, heroic throw (when specced), disarm. On my Juggernaut I get interrupt, force push and a mass cc. Warriors have double the amount of CC/interrupts than Juggernauts and were not known for their ability to CC.

I suppose the skill in this game comes in the form of team based games. For example a Juggernaut guarding a healer and taunting a dps off him when the healer is about to score and on 15% hp. But its still a shame that 1v1 has been left in the dark. I guess this is why people are enjoying the PvP (don't get me wrong I enjoy it, just 1v1's seem a bit bland), due to the fact that the only thing required is the know-how to press an ability over and over again and be moderately successful.

TL;DR Game is balanced around team based play which means there is little individual skill and 1v1's are incredibly boring and bland, with little to separate 2 players

edit: For the record, I play a merc (and he's boring as shit) and currently levelling a Juggernaut.

My assassin has all those things. Knockback, Slows, Stuns, Whirlwind, Sap, Interrupt, Death Grip. Which I use to compete with people blasting me. I don't get it. Tracer Missile, Tracer Missile, Tracer Missile.

[vizzle]

My assassin has all those things. Knockback, Slows, Stuns, Whirlwind, Sap, Interrupt, Death Grip. Which I use to compete with people blasting me. I don't get it. Tracer Missile, Tracer Missile, Tracer Missile.

L2interrupt, no more tracer missile.

I'm constantly stunned by the amount of melee that don't interrupt in this game. Horrible, horrible players. I literally type out "/s l2interrupt" while I'm spamming my Grav Round and they're on my ass just swinging their lightsaber. It's funniest when it's a Battlemaster too...

[Agent Mercury]

You aren't going to find Juggs much more entertaining. Basically, you just sit there with your guard on a healer and taunt the crap out of everyone around. You're a meat shield and that's about it.

I really hope your just understating what you do. Thing is I have seen people do that and not really participate which is frustrating. You can do more than reduce damage. You have stuns, you are at least semi-tanky use your CD's to move the ball up the field or stop them from capping a node/planting till help gets there. You can still do damage, sure your not a king at it, but every bit helps getting down the BC before he un'stuns and passes.

---------- Post added 2012-02-10 at 01:50 PM ----------

L2interrupt, no more tracer missile.

And I do. I didn't say in 1v1 nor did I say it was for the Arcane Mercs. He plays one so I was making a statement on how boring the class can be when you can be successful planting up somewhere and using one skill.

I don't have a problem with mercs personally.

[Deleted]

I also think the PVP skill cap is extremely low.

I basically have no way of telling good players from bad players, and in WOW its very obvious who is good and who is bad. I can't really focus on the skill issue however when Im constantly thinking of my fps which utterly sucks balls in pvp situations. This has serious knock on effects for my ability to use my camera in pvp as it feels laggy and weird. Things just aren't smooth for me, so what could be achieved at high level ratings when playing WOW, just cannot even be countenanced in this game.

At first I thought it was based on ability lag/delay but now that that has been mostly addressed, I'm still left with a nagging feeling of not being 100% in control of my avatar all of the time. Its very difficult to pin point, but at present Im just putting it down to FPS. Its very frustrating as it all seems to be based on that swtor_art effects file. If I delete it the game feels great but looks horrible. There's definitely something going on with that file, and until they get it sorted I will always see this game as drastically inferior to WOW but most acutely so in PVP.

[Beavis]

You aren't going to find Juggs much more entertaining. Basically, you just sit there with your guard on a healer and taunt the crap out of everyone around. You're a meat shield and that's about it.

Or you can go Rage and wreck face!

[SoCal]

Is there truly any skill in the PvP of a mmo?

FIFY

And the answer is no. In your wow reference its just the same stuff with different look and feel. I have "outplayed" a lot of players in WZs often at critical times; I have also seen a few players who solo guard a turrent by smart kitting/los'ing... once vs me (on my merc at the time) without me getting the cap as quickly they won (by 5 points).

Mages 2v1 because of skill? No, because of OP or poor play by the others... you'll see a lot of vids about that in SWTOR too. SWTOR has the same managing of abilities the problem is many dont know theirs and even more know their opponents less. You see someone use their KB as soon as a Jugg leaps in... only to get face rolled as they have more than one gap closer.

Merc may be the issue for you; they have very little escapes vs mele and if you are not spec'd pyro you have no mobility (TM noob spam) and you a joke vs any player who has hotkeyd their interrupt. Its FOTM but only because of the pub its getting about TM spam (galv dosent seem to get the same love/respect). For me a merc is the last player I'll kill in a group as I know with LOS/interrupts they will do almost 0 damage to me.

Respect or reroll and you may see a different world...still I like the pvp and there are a lot of counters to be aware of. If you are looking for a "skill" based MMO you'll have to find a different game/genre as people who think wow had skill levels are just fooling themselves. There were a limited number of classes (and more so specs) that were viable... thats not skill; thats just if you spec X, have Y gear you will win 80%.

[Achyra]

L2interrupt, no more tracer missile.

I'm constantly stunned by the amount of melee that don't interrupt in this game. Horrible, horrible players. I literally type out "/s l2interrupt" while I'm spamming my Grav Round and they're on my ass just swinging their lightsaber. It's funniest when it's a Battlemaster too...

Fucking this. Me and a Sent earlier today on a BH healer. This guy is spam healing, I'm using distraction everytime it's up along with Dirty Kick and Flash bomb, plus my radial knockback but this guy won't die because 1 in every 3 heals is getting through. Why? The Sent isn't interrupting. I can tell, since the Knight Interrupt is a goddamn kick animation! The Merc runs off (I don't bother chasing. -__-) and the Sent yells at me for having bad damage in Ops chat. I about lost my shit.

Sents even have their interrupt on a shorter cooldown than mine (6 vs 10 seconds, iirc) and he never once used it. I am, clearly, still mad.

[Enosh]

L2interrupt, no more tracer missile.

I love TM spammers, one interrupt and they don't know what to do for 4 seconds ^^
well most try to run away, but yesterday I had a guy just standing there letting me murder him
it was hilarious

commandos otoh don't spam that much GR, or at least know to use other shit, I don't know what it is that makes imps so awful, makes me want to reroll republic (well I am leveling a trooper, I mean a sentinel), but not sure I could stand leveling the same class again

[Agent Mercury]

I love TM spammers, one interrupt and they don't know what to do for 4 seconds ^^
well most try to run away, but yesterday I had a guy just standing there letting me murder him
it was hilarious

You have seen the PvP video where the guy only has it on his bar. Pretty funny. Sad thing is he wrecks people.

[Caditech]

What this sounds to me is that you want all the CC/interrupts on one class like a mage and destroy people in SWTOR. That is why WOW pvp is so unbalanced. SWTOR PVP is just fine(not perfect). I agree their WORLD PVP needs alot of work before it is even good but their 1v1 2v1 2v2 etc is very balanced compared to WOW. Also funny that WOW actually admitted that FROST MAGES may have to much control in PVP. Yeah took you 7 years to realize this really.

Got to love the people who act like they have been around since release...Frost wasn't viable in either PVE/PVP till TBC

[Revik]

There is alot of skill involved in PvP but whatever role you intend to play you cannot do it alone. In this way there is arena tactics involved because you are reliant on other people for you to succeed. If you are healer you need the help of a tank to peel and soak up damage. If you are a tank you need the help of healer to heal all the damage you are soaking up. If you are DPS you need both healer and tank. Tank to be a distraction while you do damage and healer to heal up AoE damage.

Everyone is reliant on everyone else to succeed. This is probably everyones hang up. You shouldn't be thinking in terms of 1v1 or 2v1. You should be thinking in terms of 2v2, 3v2, 4v2 or even 3v3, 4v3, 5v3.

When playing pvp think about this "There are no Rambos in the world because they'd all be dead. Get with your damn team."

[risingstar]

Got to love the people who act like they have been around since release...Frost wasn't viable in either PVE/PVP till TBC

Soooo... you were that ONE fire mage that fireballed everything in Molten Core!