Blizzard Being Immature About Dota Claims.

[Drewbabyy18]

Ugh. Valve has no real claim on the name DotA. It was a Community Mod for a Blizzard game and has been part of Blizzard's community since its creation. It is a part of Blizzard. Now, I love Valve as much as any other PC gamer but Blizzard is 100% in the right here and the people pretending otherwise just don't like anything Blizzard does. I think it's the people pretending Blizzard has no claim on DotA are the ones being immature.

^^ pretty much this, x100.
+1

Please don't post just to quote someone without adding anything new.

[Thage]

If I recall, Blizzard had a caveat that anything made with the WC3 world editor is still technically Blizzard's property, so the original DOTA falls under this. Further, DOTA Allstars is also currently owned by Blizzard. Blizzard leaves DOTA uncopyrighted, so people can make DOTA mods/games for the benefit of the RTS community.

Valve (despite being a phenomenal game developer in their own right) wants to copyright this brand for their own gain. This is a brand that Blizzard technically owns, as the mod is their property, coming from their game and their editor, so Blizzard's fully in their rights to call Valve out on this.

[Kittahsmash]

I just think it's hilarious that they're putting forth any time and effort into this lawsuit when they could be focusing on bringing back subs and improving their product. This lawsuit speaks volumes for their self confidence in their products. They honestly believe that people will stop playing their games because of the name/acronym "DoTA"

You're acting like they're putting their entire employee base behind this lawsuit, when they're not. It's just Blizzard's legal team.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

I just think it's hilarious that they're putting forth any time and effort into this lawsuit when they could be focusing on bringing back subs and improving their product. This lawsuit speaks volumes for their self confidence in their products. They honestly believe that people will stop playing their games because of the name/acronym "DoTA"

Yeah, I'm sure Ghostcrawler and Chilton are currently writing legal briefs right now and are suiting up to argue Blizzard's case in front of the arbiter for this case. This sort of thing is not done by a retained law firm, right?

Also, I'm really not sure where you derived your last sentence from. You might want to elaborate on that.

[Terrafros]

Sounds completely unbiased and credible

The events described are fact, indisputable. Here is an archived version of the webpage: http://web.archive.org/web/201012140...com/index.html

I will not deny the poster had a bias towards IceFrog over Guinsoo and Pendragon, but what he describes did actually occur.

[Thage]

I just think it's hilarious that they're putting forth any time and effort into this lawsuit when they could be focusing on bringing back subs and improving their product. This lawsuit speaks volumes for their self confidence in their products. They honestly believe that people will stop playing their games because of the name/acronym "DoTA"

Because it's not like someone else piggybacking off a mod made using their game is bad business regardless.

[Glorious Leader]

I don't understand blizzard is right because they had zero involvement other than hosting it on their server but valve is wrong because it also had zero involvement except for hiring the guy who created the map and the guy who helped run it and maintain it over the years. Blizzard can't just do a damn thing wrong these days. Orwell rolls in his grave.

Even if blizzards claim is legitimate the pretence about community is still a joke and they know it. It's naked capitalism and it should be regarded as such.

[Oxyra]

Blizzard: Trying to prevent the name from being trademarked.
Valve: Trying to trademark the name like the greedy cunts they are.

But please, do continue with your baseless arguments.

[Terrafros]

If I recall, Blizzard had a caveat that anything made with the WC3 world editor is still technically Blizzard's property, so the original DOTA falls under this. Further, DOTA Allstars is also currently owned by Blizzard. Blizzard leaves DOTA uncopyrighted, so people can make DOTA mods/games for the benefit of the RTS community.

Valve (despite being a phenomenal game developer in their own right) wants to copyright this brand for their own gain. This is a brand that Blizzard technically owns, as the mod is their property, coming from their game and their editor, so Blizzard's fully in their rights to call Valve out on this.

The EULA that blizzard included with the map creator is not sufficient to hold up in court. To make a proper analogy, does photoshop own everything that artists create? Does dropbox own everything you store?

EULA and ToS have been performing poorly in court and do not stand up to real law. Usually, they are ignored while documented(official) laws are used instead. In essence, the EULA only governs Blizzard's own services.

[Glorious Leader]

Blizzard: Trying to prevent the name from being trademarked so they can claim ownership of it like the greedy cunts that they are.
Valve: Trying to trademark the name like the greedy cunts they are.

But please, do continue with your baseless arguments.

Fixed for you.

[Terrafros]

Blizzard: Trying to prevent the name from being trademarked.
Valve: Trying to trademark the name like the greedy cunts they are.

But please, do continue with your baseless arguments.

If you read their opposition to Valve it states all ownership of dota-allstars LLC has been transferred to Blizzard from Guinsoo & Pendragon.
In essence if Blizzard successfully opposes Valve's trademark claim, they will in turn receive it for themselves. The reality of the situation is it's just a calculated business move to try to stop a competitor from using the Dota name.
I'm tired of all the crap that someone is trying to 'protect' the community. The Dota name is money and Blizzard along with other parties involved aren't going to part with it if they can manage. It's not about the best interest of the community. If you don't believe a sequel to Dota being made by Valve and potentially seeing TF2 like growth isn't what's best for the genre I don't know what to say. Competitors sure wouldn't like it though

http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen...claim_on_dota/

[Thage]

I don't understand blizzard is right because they had zero involvement other than hosting it on their server but valve is wrong because it also had zero involvement except for hiring the guy who created the map and the guy who helped run it and maintain it over the years. Blizzard can't just do a damn thing wrong these days. Orwell rolls in his grave.

Even if blizzards claim is legitimate the pretence about community is still a joke and they know it. It's naked capitalism and it should be regarded as such.

So, let me get this right. DotA is made, using Blizzard's world editor software, and run using their Warcraft 3 software, whereas the people who made DotA neither created their own software to create DotA, nor did they come up with their own art assets or anything other than what came with Blizzard's world editor software. Now, Valve is trying to capitalize on something that relied on Blizzard's IP and software to become successful, by copyrighting a recognized brand and piggybacking off Blizzard's programs, and Blizzard is suddenly laying the groundwork for 1984 by protecting what is by all rights theirs?

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

The EULA that blizzard included with the map creator is not sufficient to hold up in court. To make a proper analogy, does photoshop own everything that artists create? Does dropbox own everything you store?

EULA and ToS have been performing poorly in court and do not stand up to real law. Usually, they are ignored while documented(official) laws are used instead. In essence, the EULA only governs Blizzard's own services.

Are you sure about that? Blizzard's EULAs have been held to be valid under CA and MO law in the past. It was only a federal district court opinion in the 8th Circuit, so it wouldn't be binding, but the idea that Blizzard's EULA wouldn't hold up in court is a pretty tenuous claim.

If you read their opposition to Valve it states all ownership of dota-allstars LLC has been transferred to Blizzard from Guinsoo & Pendragon.
In essence if Blizzard successfully opposes Valve's trademark claim, they will in turn receive it for themselves. The reality of the situation is it's just a calculated business move to try to stop a competitor from using the Dota name.
I'm tired of all the crap that someone is trying to 'protect' the community. The Dota name is money and Blizzard along with other parties involved aren't going to part with it if they can manage. It's not about the best interest of the community. If you don't believe a sequel to Dota being made by Valve and potentially seeing TF2 like growth isn't what's best for the genre I don't know what to say. Competitors sure wouldn't like it though

I'm sure what random, anonymous posters are posting on redditt clearly explains how the law works. If Blizzard just wants the Dota name for the money, why did they not trademark Dota during the 7-8 years it was on Battle.net instead of waiting until now to block an affirmative move by Valve to attempt to retain exclusive naming rights to "Defense of the Ancients?"

[Caiada]

The events described are fact, indisputable. Here is an archived version of the webpage: http://web.archive.org/web/201012140...com/index.html

I will not deny the poster had a bias towards IceFrog over Guinsoo and Pendragon, but what he describes did actually occur.

None of that is an advertisement for LoL. Yeah, that poster was full of a painfully obvious slant and some inflammatory rhetoric, nothing more. Absolutely none of that makes me think Icefrog has anymore of a claim than either Guinsoo or Pendragon.

[Penguintamer]

Considering Blizzard's working on a future DotA project, A dOtA-style battleground, and stuff like that, I'm not blaming them at all for it. The term should be free to use, not copyrighted by one gaming company.

I just think it's hilarious that they're putting forth any time and effort into this lawsuit when they could be focusing on bringing back subs and improving their product. This lawsuit speaks volumes for their self confidence in their products. They honestly believe that people will stop playing their games because of the name/acronym "DoTA"

And yea, as others have said, who do you think is making this lawsuit-related fuss? The class and dungeon developers? The art team? No, that would be their legal team. The team that has nothing to do with content creation.

[Glorious Leader]

So, let me get this right. DotA is made, using Blizzard's world editor software, and run using their Warcraft 3 software, whereas the people who made DotA neither created their own software to create DotA, nor did they come up with their own art assets or anything other than what came with Blizzard's world editor software. Now, Valve is trying to capitalize on something that relied on Blizzard's IP and software to become successful, by copyrighting a recognized brand and piggybacking off Blizzard's programs, and Blizzard is suddenly laying the groundwork for 1984 by protecting what is by all rights theirs?

They had every opportunity to capitalize on it in the past but snubbed their noses at it. The actual people who did all the work making the game have moved to another company and rightly deserved the credit for the game they made. If an artisan uses a tool made my mikita or snap on you don't credit them with the artisans work. If an artisan proudly displays his work you don't credit the institution that let him display it. Valve hired the people behind the map to make a sequel to the map THEY MADE. End of story. All the spin about community they put behind it is 1984.

[Terrafros]

So, let me get this right. DotA is made, using Blizzard's world editor software, and run using their Warcraft 3 software, whereas the people who made DotA neither created their own software to create DotA, nor did they come up with their own art assets or anything other than what came with Blizzard's world editor software. Now, Valve is trying to capitalize on something that relied on Blizzard's IP and software to become successful, by copyrighting a recognized brand and piggybacking off Blizzard's programs, and Blizzard is suddenly laying the groundwork for 1984 by protecting what is by all rights theirs?

Once more, incorrect. You are far too quick to jump to conclusions, and you only look at the extremes of posts. By no means am I defending the overfanatic supporters of Valve, because many of them simply do not have knowledge of what is going on, but from my point of view, you place too much value in Blizzard's contribution.

Valve is not trying to claim Blizzard's map, neither are they trying to claim ownership of the dota-allstars map which is currently running on WC3(or at least, can be hosted to be played in WC3). They're trying to claim the name itself. The name, which was coined by the creator that is currently employed with Valve.

Valve is trying to rebuild the game's mechanics and give it it's own feel. Yes, many of the heroes look similar in Dota2, but they are original creations, using the original assets as inspiration. If you think this is unfair, I'd point you towards League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth which have done a similar thing. In addition, Valve then rebuilds the spell effects and the mechanics of the game. This is the hard work of the programming involved with this mod. At this point, Blizzard has no say, according to their EULA they do, but in court they do not.

They have access to the code because the creator of the code works with them. They are fully in their right to replicate the effects or the code itself.

[Penguintamer]

From the response from Valve, it sounds like the only reason they are trying to copyright the name 'Dota 2' is so players actually recognize it as the official sequel. You'd think that seeing the '2' at the end of it would make it obvious to players that it is a sequel.

[Sunseeker]

The issue strikes me more as Blizzard wants to keep DOTA as essentially: open domain, anyone can play with it and benefit from it. Valve however, wants DOTA to be theirs and theirs alone.

[Caiada]

From the response from Valve, it sounds like the only reason they are trying to copyright the name 'Dota 2' is so players actually recognize it as the official sequel. You'd think that seeing the '2' at the end of it would make it obvious to players that it is a sequel.

Them legally owning it means anybody else would have to pay to use it, unless they decided otherwise/didn't enforce the licensing. Blizzard owning it, the alternative, would mean the same, but they've stated intent to keep it free, whereas Valve is, you know, developing a game with the name and trying to build their own franchise out of it. However, they've also got original DotA devs. So does Blizzard (well, DotA-Allstars does, which Blizzard apparently owns(?)) Blizzard has history with it, but so does Icefrog.

What seems to me to be the real lynchpin is that the original game has been associated with Blizzard for 7 years, and the game was made on their world editor, but time will tell how it holds in court. I think that's the most complete summary possible, putting aside emotions.