What would CATA be like if BC and WOTLK didn't exist

[Thousandsons]

Whenever I'm on a wow forum I'll end up reading a post about how vanilla, bc and even wotlk was better then the current game. I see posts where people say they would rather have <insert WOW version here> back or specifically dedicated servers for older versions. I assume that for the most part many players who claim such things are more disappointed with certain changes that have been made to WOW then playing a specific expansion or vanilla again.

Some biggest additions to the game that veteran players will usually find changed almost every players game play experience from that point on are things like Flying mounts in BC, Cross Realm LFG in WOTLK, Heroic Raids in WOTLK, Heroic Dungeons in BC, Cross Realm LFR in CATA, Death Knights in WOTLK, Battlegrounds in Original, Arena in BC and Portal Hubs in Capitals to name a few. There have been a lot of nerfs as well, the biggest one that comes to mind is the the leveling process never mind heirloom gear or RAF.

So I decided to make a post about what it would be like if Cataclysm came directly after vanilla and was considered 2.0 not 4.0. It would be a very different game without the additions I mentioned earlier.

- Level cap would be 70 and all gear ilvls, health pools, cata zones etc are scaled to it.
- No Arena
- No heroic dungeons or raids (would they be as hard as normal mode or hard mode? Or in between)
- Cross realm LFR still gets added in 4.3
- Burning Crusade would be 3.0
- Wrath of the Lich King is 4.0
- No flying, you can level to 70 without a mount and places like BoT and ToFW have a portal to them somewhere. However you to zone into BWD you might need to go threw blackwing lair lol!
- No Northrend, No Lich King
- No Outland, No Illidan,
- No Dreanei or Blood Elves
- No Silvermoon, Ghostlands, Eversong or Zul'Aman
- No Exodar
- However there are Goblins and Worgen
- Archeology would be a lot more tedious
- No Real ID no Cross Realm LFG
- There are Tauren Paladins, Dwarf Shaman and the other new race/class options.
- No Isle of Conquest, Strand or Eye of the Storm
- There are rated BG's
- There is no Keyring!
- No spells from WOTLK or BC
- Current Talent Trees
- No Inscription
- No JC, No sockets on gear
- No kara
- No Stormwind Harbor
- No Reputation Buffs/Nerfs
- No Achievements
- None of the titles/mounts that were added
- Poison Profession for rogues
- Elite Quest Mobs
- No Daily Quests
- Quest Log is holds 20 quests not 25
- No Quest Tracking
- No Fishing buffs/nerfs
- No Heirlooms
- NO DKS

Can you think of any more?

Would you rather play Cataclysm if it was like this?

[Pocketzest]

The changes made between vanilla and cata are much more than what you listed, so most of it wouldn't make sense.

[Thousandsons]

The changes made between vanilla and cata are much more than what you listed, so most of it wouldn't make sense.

Thanks Captain Obvious

I made this post as a theoretical joke, aimed towards people who think things such flying mounts or LFG ruined the game play experience/server community etc...

[Maggibesti]

- Level cap would be 70 and all gear ilvls, health pools, cata zones etc are scaled to it.
- No flying, you can level to 85 without a mount and places like BoT and ToFW have a portal to them somewhere. However you to zone into BWD you might need to go threw blackwing lair lol!

If level cap is 70, how can you level to 85?


And

- Cross realm LFR still gets added in 4.3
- No Real ID no Cross Realm LFG

They could not have pulled it off with LFR if they haven't done LFD etc.


And also probably 70% of that would be added if Cataclysm came after Classic, they would´ve started working on it earlier and released it 6-12 months later. But ye, Classic wasnt a luxury, TBC wasnt a luxury, wotlk was decent and cata is alright. TO me cata isn't that fun beacuse of the raid bosses not being any fun at all, its alot less more to do raid wise. In wotlk you had multiple raids and choices, like 10man, Nomral/Heroic etc. Now you only have either 10 or 25 and normal or heroic, there is no choice, and tbc you had more things to do beacause there were 5 raids available at launch. But ye, classic and tbc was really the best times of WoW. But it would not survive if they would remove the expansions and go back to classic/tbc, classic/tbc was fun beacuse you didn't know any better, there was no LFD, so going to summon was a normal thing. There no 60% mount until lvl 40, even sometimes you didnt have enough gold so you had to wait till lvl 50ish~, running at normal speed without mount wasnt so bad, cause you werent used to 60% mounts at 20 and 100% mount at 40, heck you wernt even used to 100% mounts at 60, not everyone had epic mounts at 60. I remember running from orgrimmar to tanaris, without a mount because I didn't have flight path, ofcourse that was just normal. Now most people would give up after they reached the barrens.

[Confirm Deny]

If we went from the mechanics design of classic to Cataclysm? If they never nixed the resistance themes of raids? If they went from spirit on everything to highly min/maxed gear and reforging, apart from also having to also have resistance on gear?

Well, that'd blow a few minds. Probably throttle a bit of growth if people couldn't be mislead about the plentitude of content, because (hopefully) someone would tell them how in-depth it was possible to go to experience said content.

And also probably 70% of that would be added if Cataclysm came after Classic, they would´ve started working on it earlier and released it 6-12 months later. But ye, Classic wasnt a luxury, TBC wasnt a luxury, wotlk was decent and cata is alright. TO me cata isn't that fun beacuse of the raid bosses not being any fun at all, its alot less more to do raid wise. In wotlk you had multiple raids and choices, like 10man, Nomral/Heroic etc. Now you only have either 10 or 25 and normal or heroic, there is no choice, and tbc you had more things to do beacause there were 5 raids available at launch.

What? Yes, BC had 5 raids at launch. The T5 (SSC and Eye) raids required attunement via 2 of the T4 raids, and Magtheridon, respectively. But that still didn't matter for anybody but maybe the top 50 guilds because of how long it took to get gear. I guess that raises a good point of how people would have seen the PvE and PvP currency system in Cataclysm. Probably not much different from grinding AV reputation for an Unstoppable Force, in my opinion.

Though, Wrath and Cataclysm have had the EXACT SAME raid settings post-Naxxramas. Ulduar 10 and 25 "heroics" were differentiated only achievements, ToC you ran 4 times a week, then ICC got changed at the end. I guess ToC and ICC count.

[Something about traveling in relation to mounts]

Alright, then.

[Deleted]

- a lot less derps someone has to interact with

[Frioz]

If I had to take a wild guess? It would be an expansion that tries to improve vanilla.

[FiftyDKPMinus]

No flying for Archaeology? *Shudders at the thought of it* I wouldn't touch it with a 500ft. pole.

There'd be attunements on all the raids, (40 people still required) and resistance fights.
-BWD would require you to clear BWL, but all previous raids scale to lvl 70, but still drop lvl 60 gear.
-TotFW would require Thunderfury to enter.
-Firelands would require Sulfuras, (When a guildy uses the attunement however, the legendary would be destroyed, but would attune the guild permanently).
-BOT would require an AQ style world event to open the portal to get to the entrance.
-The Abyssal Maw was released in 2.1(4.1) and there was no seahorse, nor sea legs. Everyone must swim down there, and out there, (No portal to any of the Cata zones). Warlocks are forbidden to summon near the Abyssal Maw, and the raid must bring back the remains of the Whale Shark to be granted access into the raid instance.
-DS would require ALL previous raids defeated and ALL 40 raiders must have their...most prized possessions for the aspects to deem you worthy, and each endgame boss drops 1 of each, and all 40 raid members must have 'em.

No dungeon nor raid finder.

Sadly, the cataclysm quests would be to the snuff of TBC, as they still are in the dark ages in terms of questing.

Bringing back 2 day weekly maintenance as Cata broke the servers and the Dev. team can't fix it until next expansion.

No badge nor point system for PvE.

PvP title system was still in, and the Grand Marshal/Warlord gear was buffed considerably and considered best in slot.

AV would still be a zergfest.

Instead of bright magical changes, the majority of the world didn't change, as it was contained to not have to redo much of the world.

Overall, this sounds terrible to me as an expansion. Would've burnt out so fast and just flat out quit.

[sajin0084]

If cata was vanilla and then wrath came out then bc then Vanilla was the latest expansion people would say..
"cata was the best, wish they would just make cata dedicated servers..."
"Wrath is the best expansion, Wish more raids were TOGC style do these raid designers still work at blizz?"
"BC was ok a let down after wrath though"
"Vanilla is the worst expansion ever. AQ, what were they thinking?"

[Thousandsons]

There'd be attunements on all the raids, (40 people still required) and resistance fights.
-BWD would require you to clear BWL, but all previous raids scale to lvl 70, but still drop lvl 60 gear.
-TotFW would require Thunderfury to enter.
-Firelands would require Sulfuras, (When a guildy uses the attunement however, the legendary would be destroyed, but would attune the guild permanently).
-BOT would require an AQ style world event to open the portal to get to the entrance.
-The Abyssal Maw was released in 2.1(4.1) and there was no seahorse, nor sea legs. Everyone must swim down there, and out there, (No portal to any of the Cata zones). Warlocks are forbidden to summon near the Abyssal Maw, and the raid must bring back the remains of the Whale Shark to be granted access into the raid instance.
-DS would require ALL previous raids defeated and ALL 40 raiders must have their...most prized possessions for the aspects to deem you worthy, and each endgame boss drops 1 of each, and all 40 raid members must have 'em.

Lol, very vanilla like good job! Although I think they would probably add water mounts, if there was no sea legs you could get a warlock to buff unending breath I guess.

[Deleted]

If cata was vanilla and then wrath came out then bc then Vanilla was the latest expansion people would say..
"cata was the best, wish they would just make cata dedicated servers..."
"Wrath is the best expansion, Wish more raids were TOGC style do these raid designers still work at blizz?"
"BC was ok a let down after wrath though"
"Vanilla is the worst expansion ever. AQ, what were they thinking?"

This - This is exactly how it works, the game was new to Vanilla players and they thought it was awesome. I started playing in TBC and it was awesome and i wish it was like that always, but it just gets more booring as you keep playing. In my opinion TBC was much funnier yet the game has improved to so much better atleast PvE wise in some parts like mechanics for example but also many more things that i just cba to brabble up.

[Leonidas]

- NO DKS

^
^
^Sold!!!

[Thousandsons]

This - This is exactly how it works, the game was new to Vanilla players and they thought it was awesome. I started playing in TBC and it was awesome and i wish it was like that always, but it just gets more booring as you keep playing. In my opinion TBC was much funnier yet the game has improved to so much better at least PvE wise in some parts like mechanics for example but also many more things that i just cba to brabble up.

Personally, I have been playing on and off since launch. I remember vanilla and BC fondly, but also remember there problems. WOTLK was my favorite expansion, for many reasons, of course it wasn't perfect. CATA is my least favorite, however I still play it and enjoy it. MoP looks interesting to me, but I'm a bit worried about Monks being OP at launch and think they have done a terrible job marketing it in terms of "epicness".

This thread is not a debate about what version of wow was the best though, so please try to stay on topic.

[FiftyDKPMinus]

Lol, very vanilla like good job! Although I think they would probably add water mounts, if there was no sea legs you could get a warlock to buff unending breath I guess.

If there was a water mount, it'd prob, be a catch 22. Yes, the Earthen Ring rep can grant you as an exalted purchase (for 10k per unit) yet, since there'd be no tabard, they would tie the rep to the Abyssal Maw raid to finish off the rep.

You still have to get 40 people to swim from the shores of Dun Morogh, (with reason of removing the fatigue from the EK shores up to Vashj'ir) into the place, and by chance the Whale Shark has a 1-3hr re-spawn timer, (both do) to down him for the attunement. Then swimming to the elemental plane to get to the portal of that place, imagine how much time you just spent getting to that place. Not to mention the world PvP factor on a PvP server...

Did I mention the Whale Shark requires nature/fort resist combination? Yeah,

The chaotic powers encircling Vashj'ir have caused the larger beasts in kind to be fused with the lingering raw energies released by Deathwing, requiring adventurers to be strongly suggested to carry resistances to frost and nature as the Whale Shark can irradiate potent elemental energies to dissolve your raid into the waters.

[Thousandsons]

If there was a water mount, it'd prob, be a catch 22. Yes, the Earthen Ring rep can grant you as an exalted purchase (for 10k per unit) yet, since there'd be no tabard, they would tie the rep to the Abyssal Maw raid to finish off the rep.

You still have to get 40 people to swim from the shores of Dun Morogh, (with reason of removing the fatigue from the EK shores up to Vashj'ir) into the place, and by chance the Whale Shark has a 1-3hr re-spawn timer, (both do) to down him for the attunement. Then swimming to the elemental plane to get to the portal of that place, imagine how much time you just spent getting to that place. Not to mention the world PvP factor on a PvP server...

Yes of course the water mount would be an exalted award, unless you got the one that drops off Posidus which is actually slower in Vash'jir then the quest reward version. Of course any one with a water mount would be considered a 'god'.

I would assume that the flight path still connects to the Boats in Shimmering Expanse, so you would only need to make the Dun Morogh swim once. Alliance don't have the Call of Duty quest though, due to there being no Stomwind Harbor, therefor they have to swim. Also there are no alliance specific hubs/quests there.

A 'portal item' that will port you to the ToFW and also acts as an attunment item which is required to be in your inventory to enter the raid, is earned threw a rare Tol'vir Archeology find. On top of that the raid group must have at least 1 thunderfury to face Al'akir.

[Trassk]

- No Kara...
Don't take my memories away

Best times come from there.

Also be no Bloodlust :O, I'd not get to enrage anymore.

But no blood elves... hmm.. you might have sold me there

[FiftyDKPMinus]

Yes of course the water mount would be an exalted award, unless you got the one that drops off Posidus which is actually slower in Vash'jir then the quest reward version. Of course any one with a water mount would be considered a 'god'.

I would assume that the flight path still connects to the Boats in Shimmering Expanse, so you would only need to make the Dun Morogh swim once. Alliance don't have the Call of Duty quest though, due to there being no Stomwind Harbor, therefor they have to swim. Also there are no alliance specific hubs/quests there.

A 'portal item' that will port you to the ToFW and also acts as an attunment item which is required to be in your inventory to enter the raid, is earned threw a rare Tol'vir Archeology find. On top of that the raid group must have at least 1 thunderfury to face Al'akir.

The Alliance would still have Call of Duty, just at Menethil Harbor. Yet, you still have a trek to get through a good chunk of Vashj'ir even with the fp, or guilds that had nearly everyone do Hyjal questing or Vashj'ir questing.

However, the artifact required a tol'vir to reactivate the artifact for it to work, such as a prison key to open the portal to bypass Al'Akir's defenses. The only tol'vir that didn't join Al'Akir would be in Ramkahen, requiring you to be exalted with Ramkahen, (easy, run Lost City over and over) and fork over a cost of 2k for activating it.

I wonder if I have anyone drooling over these attunements yet?

[Thousandsons]

The Alliance would still have Call of Duty, just at Menethil Harbor.

Forget about that place, lol

Also to unlock Firelands requires a server effort to complete the Molten Front (there is no phasing). Although these are not dallie quests they are mostly repeatable turn in's that drop of the mobs in molten front and there is a very long max level quest chain that you must complete to personally attune yourself to Firelands. Did I mention every mob in Molten Front is also elite?

Fights like 40 man Ascendant Council and Omnotron require multiple resist tanks for each element and can include a lot of unavoidable deaths. Where the new resist gear (if any) comes from... I am not certain yet.

[FiftyDKPMinus]

Forget about that place, lol

Also to unlock Firelands requires a server effort to complete the Molten Front (there is no phasing). Although these are not dallie quests they are mostly repeatable turn in's that drop of the mobs in molten front and there is a very long max level quest chain that you must complete to personally attune yourself to Firelands. Did I mention every mob in Molten Front is also elite?

Fights like 40 man Ascendant Council and Omnotron require multiple resist tanks for each element and can include a lot of unavoidable deaths. Where the new resist gear (if any) comes from... I am not certain yet.

Better not give Blizzard any ideas for the new Pandaria raids

OT: Including sacrificing Sulfuras to lure Ragnaros out to open the barrier for a guild personally to allow them as a whole to enter as well.
The Molten Front should also require thousands of mats. that drop from Molten Core, (IE Blood of the Mountain, 2k required).

Old resist gear tended to be random world drops. Perhaps Blizzard adds random lvl 70 resist gear with a 0.3% chance off of trash from the scaled lvl 70 versions of Vanilla raids. To get the "lower tier" (Blue items) is to farm level 70 mobs out in the new Cata zones, which have a 0.016% chance.

[Deficineiron]

if cat. had followed classic, I think the extant playerbase at that time would have gone into shock. removal of ALL grinds in game, ALL difficulty outside of heroic raids, near-instant leveling (maybe 15 times faster than classic leveling?) You would see mass defections of that playerbase.

I will go one further - if Cat. 4.3 were the original game version as launched, and say the launch was today (or 7 years ago, but that would be even worse) - this game would never have had the early success it did. You aren't going to suck in millions of players and getting them to pay 15 bucks a month for years by giving them a game they can go from start to finish in a few RL weeks, accomplishing nearly everything that can be done in the pve game except archaeology.