Necromancer Discussion Thread

[mrjasonguy]

This is in no way to start a flame war, but I just wanted to voice a few concerns I have of the necromancer profession.

I like the gameplay of the profession, it just seems the damage output is soooo low. I prefer dots, so I like the scepter and the staff. I just really find the dots dont do much. All the dots can pretty much be ignored. I've read threads of how powerful condition damage is but I'm just not seeing it. I've used axe as well, and the pressure it applies is ok.

THAT being said, I've only gotten to lvl 11. I'm still not seeing a strong build though. Does it get better? Or is this the wrong profession for me?

[Lucky_]

This is in no way to start a flame war, but I just wanted to voice a few concerns I have of the necromancer profession.

I like the gameplay of the profession, it just seems the damage output is soooo low. I prefer dots, so I like the scepter and the staff. I just really find the dots dont do much. All the dots can pretty much be ignored. I've read threads of how powerful condition damage is but I'm just not seeing it. I've used axe as well, and the pressure it applies is ok.

THAT being said, I've only gotten to lvl 11. I'm still not seeing a strong build though. Does it get better? Or is this the wrong profession for me?

That is how necromancer works. No burst at all, massive ramp up time on DoT damage. This is a tradeoff for best survivability in the game.

[Verazh]

That is how necromancer works. No burst at all, massive ramp up time on DoT damage. This is a tradeoff for best survivability in the game.

No. Each profession has several ways to spec. The Necros flavor is condition control, wells and minions. Dotting is just one way to deal damage. Granted, the necro isn't the strongest burst class, but that doesn't mean they dont have it. Atm conditionmancer is the only really viable spec.
And DS was nerfed so hard that its a pretty wild statement to say the necro has the best survivability in the game imo.

[woodydave44]

That is how necromancer works. No burst at all, massive ramp up time on DoT damage. This is a tradeoff for best survivability in the game.

They do not have the best survivability in the game.

And having only 1 roll is against the philosophy that anet set for the game. So necromancers, at the moment, at not up to par with most of the other classes, who have mutiple rolls.

[Deleted]

I've had long term uncertainty about Axe/Focus or Scepter/Dagger being a weapon combo I liked. I've always found with the Necromancer, oddly, that no matter what weapon set I pick, the Staff always ends up being my secondary weaponset.

This applies to me as well. The staff just seems too good to pass but I do actually enjoy using though. I was running a build last beta with Staff and Signet of Undeath, and it was always great fun whenever a big chunk of the enemy team tried to finish off one single ally. Staff #5 + Signet of Undeath and the fight can totally change ways.

[Durzlla]

They do not have the best survivability in the game.

And having only 1 roll is against the philosophy that anet set for the game. So necromancers, at the moment, at not up to par with most of the other classes, who have mutiple rolls.

Last i checked "bursting" wasn't a role.... the "roles" anet said were control, support, damage, which necromancers do FANTASTICALLY with their conditions... chill + cripple + confusion + daze + stun = control, all those condition transfers, boon corrupts etc = support, and then all that bleeding, poison, burning = damage ( i guess confusion could be damage too but i see it more as a control).

And idk what you're talking about by not having best survivability in the game... i'm going to guess you were doing it wrong or something because i was noobing it up on necro missing half my abilities like a boss, but my god did i never die... and in all my time fighting necros and guardians i gotta say necros are more survivable, guardians are just more annoying... like seriously, all they do is throw you back and delay their death by like 3 seconds tops, necros do all their crazy boon swapping, fear, death shroud, heals, etc.

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 11:39 AM ----------

This applies to me as well. The staff just seems too good to pass but I do actually enjoy using though. I was running a build last beta with Staff and Signet of Undeath, and it was always great fun whenever a big chunk of the enemy team tried to finish off one single ally. Staff #5 + Signet of Undeath and the fight can totally change ways.

i was NOT a fan of the staff at all.... the Axe and scepters were my favorite using the warhorn and scepter respectively... or maybe it was dagger with scepter? idk w/e one had the big aoe condition area...

[mrjasonguy]

Last i checked "bursting" wasn't a role.... the "roles" anet said were control, support, damage, which necromancers do FANTASTICALLY with their conditions... chill + cripple + confusion + daze + stun = control, all those condition transfers, boon corrupts etc = support, and then all that bleeding, poison, burning = damage ( i guess confusion could be damage too but i see it more as a control).

And idk what you're talking about by not having best survivability in the game... i'm going to guess you were doing it wrong or something because i was noobing it up on necro missing half my abilities like a boss, but my god did i never die... and in all my time fighting necros and guardians i gotta say necros are more survivable, guardians are just more annoying... like seriously, all they do is throw you back and delay their death by like 3 seconds tops, necros do all their crazy boon swapping, fear, death shroud, heals, etc.

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 11:39 AM ----------



i was NOT a fan of the staff at all.... the Axe and scepters were my favorite using the warhorn and scepter respectively... or maybe it was dagger with scepter? idk w/e one had the big aoe condition area...

I do agree necros have fantastic durability. But if im focusing on conditions (again at level 11) and my dots are ticking for 50 on a health pool on average of 10,000, what is the point? I guess I'm missing something. PVP lasts a lot longer in this game than what I have been used to. So when my conditions last for ~2 sec on a long fight, it doesn't seem to be that effective. I new to the condition/boon system, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about. I do like the "flavor" of necros, it just seems like they are pillow fisted in a room when everyone else is wearing brass knuckles.

[Durzlla]

I do agree necros have fantastic durability. But if im focusing on conditions (again at level 11) and my dots are ticking for 50 on a health pool on average of 10,000, what is the point? I guess I'm missing something. PVP lasts a lot longer in this game than what I have been used to. So when my conditions last for ~2 sec on a long fight, it doesn't seem to be that effective. I new to the condition/boon system, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about. I do like the "flavor" of necros, it just seems like they are pillow fisted in a room when everyone else is wearing brass knuckles.

oh you're using bleeds, yeah for bleeds get those stacked up, if you can hit 15 stacks or higher 99% of your opponents (for the time being) will absolutely MELT and be left nothing more then a pool of blood on the floor, with only 1-5 stacks though that damage is mediocre at best... what i did was just ran around with the scepter and i think it was dagger now that i think of it and just ramp up as many bleeds as possible, it takes a little longer then say running around with a great sword on a ranger or so, but i don't think i ever died in PvE, and in PvP i had to be significantly out numbered (like 1v3 or so)

PS: Blood is power/ Corrosive Poison Cloud are both very powerful utilities in PvE and pvp if you're using conditions.

[woodydave44]

Last i checked "bursting" wasn't a role.... the "roles" anet said were control, support, damage, which necromancers do FANTASTICALLY with their conditions... chill + cripple + confusion + daze + stun = control, all those condition transfers, boon corrupts etc = support, and then all that bleeding, poison, burning = damage ( i guess confusion could be damage too but i see it more as a control).

And thats exactly the problem. Thats all they can do. I can build a Warrior for straight damage. I can build a warrior for condition damage. I can build a warrior for control. I can build a warrior for tank/protection. I can build a warrior for support.....

Necros only viable build is....condition control.

And DS was nerfed into the ground. Elementalist actually have more survivability at the moment.

[Durzlla]

And thats exactly the problem. Thats all they can do. I can build a Warrior for straight damage. I can build a warrior for condition damage. I can build a warrior for control. I can build a warrior for tank/protection. I can build a warrior for support.....

Necros only viable build is....condition control.

Um... i've seen more support necros then i can count so you're clearly talking out your ass.... and a necro -can- build straight damage and go dagger/axe that's an option, it's there, you can also go MM which is for all intents and purposes tank/straight damage, once again, it's there, it's an option. however WHAT EVER BUILD you use as a necro will embrace conditions and use them quite a bit because that's one of the key things for necromancer. It's like with warrior "condition" builds, where you aren't actually a condition build you're still like 80% straight up damage 20% condition damage, not matter how much you try, and how much you beg warrior will NEVER use conditions as much, or as well as, necromancer. Just like a necromancer will NEVER use purely straight up damage like warrior, hell even the necromancers straight up damage weapon (the axe) requires some ramp up with conditions, but my god will you wreck people once you ramp up.

[woodydave44]

Um... i've seen more support necros then i can count so you're clearly talking out your ass.... and a necro -can- build straight damage and go dagger/axe that's an option, it's there, you can also go MM which is for all intents and purposes tank/straight damage, once again, it's there, it's an option. however WHAT EVER BUILD you use as a necro will embrace conditions and use them quite a bit because that's one of the key things for necromancer. It's like with warrior "condition" builds, where you aren't actually a condition build you're still like 80% straight up damage 20% condition damage, not matter how much you try, and how much you beg warrior will NEVER use conditions as much, or as well as, necromancer. Just like a necromancer will NEVER use purely straight up damage like warrior, hell even the necromancers straight up damage weapon (the axe) requires some ramp up with conditions, but my god will you wreck people once you ramp up.

Anyone that actually did any kind of testing against any other skilled player and wasnt just "playing around" will tell you that doing anything other than a condition necro will get you excluded from anything. Your burst damage is sub-par to elementalist (who also have better survivability). MMs are garbage the way minions are not (no minion regen), wells are worthless at the moment....

The developers themselves have come out and admit that necros and mesmerers are in need of an overhaul.

[Durzlla]

Anyone that actually did any kind of testing against any other skilled player and wasnt just "playing around" will tell you that doing anything other than a condition necro will get you excluded from anything. Your burst damage is sub-par to elementalist (who also have better survivability). MMs are garbage the way minions are not (no minion regen), wells are worthless at the moment....

The developers themselves have come out and admit that necros and mesmerers are in need of an overhaul.

where did i say necros can burst? I said they can do straight damage.. do you -read-? and i know the developers said they are in need of an overhaul, i'm saying there are options to do non conditon damage but you're still going to use conditions as the necromancer no matter what you do you will rely on them.

[Karizee]

THIS thread needs a stickie!! <3

[Verazh]

where did i say necros can burst? I said they can do straight damage.. do you -read-? and i know the developers said they are in need of an overhaul, i'm saying there are options to do non conditon damage but you're still going to use conditions as the necromancer no matter what you do you will rely on them.

Yes there are certainly options to go for DD. But atm those options are undertuned and frankly, weak.

Heres hoping they get around to fixing Minions, Wells, DS(traits) and most of the traitlines.

[woodydave44]

where did i say necros can burst? I said they can do straight damage.. do you -read-? and i know the developers said they are in need of an overhaul, i'm saying there are options to do non conditon damage but you're still going to use conditions as the necromancer no matter what you do you will rely on them.

Yes, they have the option. However, they are so terrible at those options that trying to do anything other than straight condition builds will get you excluded from most of the game.

Yes, I plan on maining a necro. No, I dont want to have to play 10x harder to receive the same results as everyone else.

[kendro1200]

That is how necromancer works. No burst at all, massive ramp up time on DoT damage. This is a tradeoff for best survivability in the game.

False, necros USED to have the best survivability in game via death shroud, mesmer, guardian and thief trump necro on survivability.

That said, I found critcondition builds to be fairly useful. The stress test yesterday landed me fairly comfortable in a staff/scepter/focus build. The build felt fairly solid in spvp. I was able to build up lots of life force, had fairly decent damage, and almost had as much durability as a BWE2 necro.

[Durzlla]

Yes, they have the option. However, they are so terrible at those options that trying to do anything other than straight condition builds will get you excluded from most of the game.

Yes, I plan on maining a necro. No, I dont want to have to play 10x harder to receive the same results as everyone else.

Yup, you know, it's like despite Anet saying they need an overhaul, everythin they have ATM is totally balanced an number checked....

Seriously? If you think that they aren't going to make tweaks you're fooling yourself... And tbh, 6k damage with axe 2 skill against a heavy armor prof (w/o the 9 stacks of vulnerable you can get) is just AWFUL damage...

[Larynx]

False, necros USED to have the best survivability in game via death shroud, mesmer, guardian and thief trump necro on survivability.

That said, I found critcondition builds to be fairly useful. The stress test yesterday landed me fairly comfortable in a staff/scepter/focus build. The build felt fairly solid in spvp. I was able to build up lots of life force, had fairly decent damage, and almost had as much durability as a BWE2 necro.

Thief? Mesmer?

I think I just stepped in the twilight zone.

[grandpab]

No. Each profession has several ways to spec. The Necros flavor is condition control, wells and minions. Dotting is just one way to deal damage. Granted, the necro isn't the strongest burst class, but that doesn't mean they dont have it. Atm conditionmancer is the only really viable spec.
And DS was nerfed so hard that its a pretty wild statement to say the necro has the best survivability in the game imo.

I thought a condition build was the only currently viable build til I made a spec focused on axe/deathshroud/might. I was getting 15 stacks of might pretty easily with the right rune/sigil set up, and my axe #2 was doing 5k (possibly may have been with vuln), but 4k+ was very common.

The AoE wasn't as good as a condition build (epidemic is pretty badass), but the single target was better, and a bit better survivability.

[woodydave44]

Yup, you know, it's like despite Anet saying they need an overhaul, everythin they have ATM is totally balanced an number checked....

Seriously? If you think that they aren't going to make tweaks you're fooling yourself... And tbh, 6k damage with axe 2 skill against a heavy armor prof (w/o the 9 stacks of vulnerable you can get) is just AWFUL damage...

Um...what? I stated that they are in need of an overhaul. That makes them unbalanced....Anet says themselves that necros are getting tweaked/upgraded....so im confused on what you're saying.

And post a screenshot of axe skill 2 doing 6k damage to a non glass cannon warrior with 0 stacks of might and vuln. I'd like to see it.