Necromancer Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

So what's with all the Necro hate? can someone explain briefly? I just rolled the class earlier taking a break from my others and I kinda like it. Not sure which weapons will help me the most when levelling but atm I'm just Axe/Focus. It's a breath of fresh air over my Guardian/Warrior/everything else

I wouldn't call it hate, it's a great (fun) class to play, but it lags behind other classes in terms of effectiveness. Comments were made at the BWE that they'd be giving Necro's a bit of love before release, but nothing changed. So yeah, a lot of people who like to play the class for it's RP and fun factor are feeling a bit like there's something missing.

[Deleted]

Understandable. I only levelled mine to 6 but I thoroughly enjoyed it, would be great to see it get some love

[Deleted]

I tried out one last siphon health build today and managed to snag some numbers, here's how it went;

Gearwise- I went for vampirism, the 6pt bonus might be bugged idk, but I've never noticed turning into mist, maybe I'm missing it every time, it could also be that at 10% health you die so fast that you never notice it happening. In total this left me with the following stats;
21k health
3209 attack
14% crit chance
2680 armor
629 healing power

traits- http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/...585i5m5ph7hghm
To me, this build gave the most access to life siphoning. You have four wells, three of which make a life steal combo, the other removes conditions. While Under 50% crit, and not using a dagger MH, Bloodthirst is a superior option to Vampiric Precision as it buffs Vampirism, at 50% crit and above, Vampiric Precision overtakes it in terms of passive healing.

For weapons I took staff to access combo finishers and condition damage, then axe/warhorn for cc and quick [ranged] hits; hence more procs of Vampiric, as it scales from number of hits, rather than damage and does not proc from condition damage ticks. The reason you don't take dagger for siphon life; it's a lie, the base value for the health drain portion is 215, with the Bloodthirst talent it only moves up to 219, then with maxed out +healing from Blood Magic it maxes out at 227 per tick, in play it was healing 337 per tick and only the #1 attack generated lifeforce, dagger is viable weapon, but for this build kiting and generating lifeforce worked better. Offsetting such little health per tick in turn for being in melee range cost more health than it generated.

Passive Healing numbers.

The most basic passive heal in the build [Vampiric with the Bloodthrist trait] healed for 29 per hit done;
This was for all attacks, did not include condition ticks, but did include ticks from wells.


The Grand Master trait from Blood Magic [Ritual Mastery] healed for 42 per tick per target hit, and procced Vampiric for 29 health;
Each well ticks 5 times, once per second.

Lifesteal combo effects from Well of Darkness/Suffering/Corruption and lifestealing from the Vampirism gear bonuses both gave a rather generous 209 healing per proc;
This was the same amount as the 4pt bonus causing life stealing after casting your heal;


Summary of Numbers.

Under totally ideal circumstances, the amount of healing that could be generated from one well could be;
Five procs of Vampiric; 29+29+29+29+29= 145
Five ticks from Ritual mastery, plus 145 from double dipping well damage from Vampiric; 42+42+42+42+42+145= 355
Five instances of Lifestealing granted by Well of Suffering etc; 209+209+209+209+209= 1045
The total heal granted from one well-bomb amounts to 1545 [1045+355+145]; or 7.35% of my total hp

The 'Good'.

Just the numbers taken from traited abilities granted a forgettable 400 healing from one well, this required four major trait abilities and one mandatory minor trait to accomplish, plus this is maxed out on healing power from traitlines. Adding on one proc of lifestealing from random Vampirism proc after the well has died adds one more 209 heal to the mix, still rather lackluster. Added healing from dagger at the same time grants 3433 healing, assuming a full uninterrupted cast of Life Siphon. More than with staff, but enjoy the mace pounding your face running with a dagger.

Also bare in mind that these are assumed numbers under ideal circumstances, in actual play there were numerous problems;

The Bad.

-Our main source of reliable combo finishers [Necrotic Grasp] is only 30% chance to grant the combo, lifestealing was the main source of healing in the above scenario, you can up this by saving Staff ability 4, but this is also costly to damage output if you aren't using it upfront
-It is common knowledge to move out of the red circles, it was extremely rare to keep someone inside a well from start until finish, even more rare if they didn't dodge a single tick while there, this becomes worse if you yourself are forced to move out of PBAoE, not only does your enemy follow you out of the well, but you lose access to lifestealing combos
-Dropping more than one well only increased to amount of passive healing from trait abilities [an extra 400 health] as stacking two wells does not grant double the combo healing
-Wells can't be placed underwater, awkward if you plan to play Capricorn, you will be specced into nothing whilst underwater
-Wells have a hefty cooldown, as the build focuses so much on well contribution, placing them at an opportune time is crucial, if you mess it up you wont be around to get a second chance
-None of the traits or lifesiphoning work on object damage, hence focusing your defenses around siphoning health will not help you survive arrowcart damage in WvW
-I am still unable to tell whether or not you receive healing at all while under death shroud

Overall.
It's a type of build I'd love to work, it definitely did in GW1, it feels very fun to play but it desperately needs some number love, and maybe less reliance on wells. As a point of comparison, with maxed out +healing traits I can use Symbol of Faith, the Guardian #2 Mace skill with an 8second cooldown, heals me and nearby allies for 695 every second for 4 seconds [2780 healing], which is more than double the amount of healing I was able to generate using a build and gearset entirely structured around generating health just on myself.

I know that's a long post, but I at least tried stuff out rather than blindly complain that things weren't working out, I hope this is one of the things they address when they get around to giving Necro 'some love' they referred to, everyone loves a vampire! ♥

[DrakeWurrum]

Sheesh. Just realized, looking at the Necro weapons. Not only are both underwater weapons designed for close range, but they're all designed for massive PBAoE. They need to design Trident for a different skillset BAD.

---------- Post added 2012-09-16 at 08:36 AM ----------

why not, what build are you using? Power?
My bleeds tick for 125 now and I can gather 3-4 mobs and aoe them in 10s. Sometimes it gets... interesting

I've been sticking with bursty non-condition builds that rely on Power, Precision, and/or Prowess. And very much prefer Vitality. I haven't looked into the scaling of Healing power for the Necro, in regards to how well the life siphoning skills/traits scale, but I doubt it's any good, after looking at how poorly it scales for the other professions.

[wuzzle]

looong post with good stuff in it♥

That's about all one can say about the healing traits. The only trait, that's slightly useful/viable at all in terms of selfhealing, is the one that grants some life on Well ticks.
Thumbs up!

[nighties]

For all you power-based Necromancer enthusiasts.

Trats:
http://i.imgur.com/uFFIJ.png

[VibrantViolet]

I wouldn't use a condition build for roaming around personally, but maybe that's just because of the way I like to play: fast and hard!

This is why I wish we could have dual-build system. For doing maps, I'd like to use a power build, but for dungeons, a condition build just seems better. I don't like using a mainhand dagger on a boss if I don't have to, I like to stay at range in those situations. Right now I'm running with a condition/well build, and it's going pretty good so far. I mostly offer utility over damage for dungeons, though. For roaming around, though, it's not the greatest build. I can AoE just fine, but when I was roaming around with a dagger/warhorn, I was killing stuff fast.

[nighties]

Good news Necromancers! I just discovered if you transmute your starting-item masks you can have all 3 on one character, if you like. Best part is I'm sure this works with ALL starting items! :O

[Lucas Ashrock]

3 masks? What 3 masks?

I wouldn't call it hate, it's a great (fun) class to play, but it lags behind other classes in terms of effectiveness. Comments were made at the BWE that they'd be giving Necro's a bit of love before release, but nothing changed. So yeah, a lot of people who like to play the class for it's RP and fun factor are feeling a bit like there's something missing.

Uhm. missing something about fun? I'm having loads of fun with my MM spiritspammer pewpew

MM build (created by me) , scepter + dagger / staff , i have: minions tanking, keeping mobs wher i want, and i cast to them scepter+dagger skills, then switch to staff with loads of aoe. Uber fun I did AC, TA explo, loads of fun, my minions worked perfectly, died couple times, enjoyed every minute, dealt a lot of damage

Best main char i could ever pick

[nighties]

3 masks? What 3 masks? Best main char i could ever pick

"A Necromancer's closest companion is death. In acknowledgement of this, I mark my face with the symbol of a __________."
--and it gives you 3 options. Trickster Demon / Skull / Ghostly Wraith.

I concur. Necro is best class evar

[Lucas Ashrock]

Starting mask.. Oh, i guess i transmuted it to a hom one, when i created him, long ago..

[nighties]

Well then now you can always go back and get them :O I just tested this out with leather. My Engineer is now sporting a thief's hood. Bad assery.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Well then now you can always go back and get them :O I just tested this out with leather. My Engineer is now sporting a thief's hood. Bad assery.

Where?

[nighties]

Where?

Make a new toon is the only way. Then go the trading post and buy a low level helmet of your class (light medium heavy), and then use a basic transmutation stone on the item. Taking the appearance of your starting item and the stats of your TP helm. Put your newly transmuted helm in the bank (It should be labeled soulbound but I found this really meant account-bound for some reason. Bug maybe?) and enjoy :P

Takes a bit of time. Human starting area is the fastest to go through considering the overwhelming popular human starting area and how many people you see making new toons in Queensdale first.

[Beefsquatch]

I have a question, when it comes to gear what kind of stats should I max out? Do I need toughness and vitality more than anything, and get power, precision, condition from traits? The other way around? Or a mix of both? Trying to learn the best way to gear my level 80 necro so he can survive as well as do a lot of damage. At the moment i want a staff build, and a melee build. Meaning the best axe, dagger mh build that compliments staff as primary. I'm willing to entertain a scepter one as well. If anyone could help me out, I'd love you =D

[VibrantViolet]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fQUQ...dbcQKevuiUgshB

Wondering what you guys think of this build for dungeons, swapping out skills for WvW and solo-play. I don't know what to do with the last 10 points. Would they be better off in Spite, getting the increased axe damage, or in Death Magic, getting the increased staff damage, plus more toughness. Or, should I drop the points in Curses and put them somewhere else? I really like the ground targetting for Wells, but I guess I could live without it.

---------- Post added 2012-09-19 at 11:13 AM ----------

I have a question, when it comes to gear what kind of stats should I max out? Do I need toughness and vitality more than anything, and get power, precision, condition from traits? The other way around? Or a mix of both? Trying to learn the best way to gear my level 80 necro so he can survive as well as do a lot of damage. At the moment i want a staff build, and a melee build. Meaning the best axe, dagger mh build that compliments staff as primary. I'm willing to entertain a scepter one as well. If anyone could help me out, I'd love you =D

If you want to go for a melee build, you want power and precision. You don't need vitality, because Necromancer's have the highest base HP in the game. Getting toughness would be good, too, especially if you want to use the dagger. Condition isn't so important if you are using Wells and melee weapons versus using Blood is Power, Epidemic, and other condition talents along with the scepter/dagger.

I'm trying to find a good axe/focus and staff build, too. I do use the dagger for solo-play. I am kind of toying around with a few different builds. Do you want to use Wells? I would suggest it if you are going with a melee-type build. I have a build I am going to experiment with in-game, and I'll let you know how it pans out.

[nighties]

I have a question, when it comes to gear what kind of stats should I max out? Do I need toughness and vitality more than anything, and get power, precision, condition from traits? The other way around? Or a mix of both? Trying to learn the best way to gear my level 80 necro so he can survive as well as do a lot of damage. At the moment i want a staff build, and a melee build. Meaning the best axe, dagger mh build that compliments staff as primary. I'm willing to entertain a scepter one as well. If anyone could help me out, I'd love you =D

I'm having a lot of success with this build:
MH Dagger / Focus
OF Staff

I sometimes mix out the elites (especially in dungeons when Fleshy wants to say hi to everyone), but I find his interrupt and damage very reliable in most PVE situations. Best part is you're not locked out of your heals and other utilities that Power melee's rely on to survive.

The build primarily centers around staff for control and dagger for most of the upfront damage. I start in staff usually and switch to dagger after the enemy has 10+stacks of vulnerability on them. Laying down the well and wall will grant you Chaos armour and area blindness when you combo it with exploding minions. This combo is devastating for big mob pulls, because after you take all the aggro, switch to Deathshroud and Life-Tranfer while kiting. Massive AoE P:

Your auto attack in Deathshroud will grant you might (and apply vul to them) so I often switch to deathshroud before committing to Dagger/Focus to get that buff in. Your dagger's 1 will be where most of your damage comes in at this state, but with high stacks of vul Life Siphon is pretty awesome too.

It's a very active build that has a lot of range and melee capabilities. Very durable too, with the protection and best heal in the game, Consume Conditions. Try it out (:!

As for gear I'd go Power Precision and Toughness (in deathshroud form vitality doesn't matter).

[Beefsquatch]

I'm having a lot of success with this build:
MH Dagger / Focus
OF Staff

I sometimes mix out the elites (especially in dungeons when Fleshy wants to say hi to everyone), but I find his interrupt and damage very reliable in most PVE situations. Best part is you're not locked out of your heals and other utilities that Power melee's rely on to survive.

The build primarily centers around staff for control and dagger for most of the upfront damage. I start in staff usually and switch to dagger after the enemy has 10+stacks of vulnerability on them. Laying down the well and wall will grant you Chaos armour and area blindness when you combo it with exploding minions. This combo is devastating for big mob pulls, because after you take all the aggro, switch to Deathshroud and Life-Tranfer while kiting. Massive AoE P:

Your auto attack in Deathshroud will grant you might (and apply vul to them) so I often switch to deathshroud before committing to Dagger/Focus to get that buff in. Your dagger's 1 will be where most of your damage comes in at this state, but with high stacks of vul Life Siphon is pretty awesome too.

It's a very active build that has a lot of range and melee capabilities. Very durable too, with the protection and best heal in the game, Consume Conditions. Try it out (:!

As for gear I'd go Power Precision and Toughness (in deathshroud form vitality doesn't matter).

Now that's what I'm talking about, I really really like this build. Thanks mate =D

[Grable]

I'll just say that I played versus a few tournament teams that knew how to handle conditions yesterday as a conditionmancer and I felt UTTERLY useless. Seriously losing the will to play this class in tPvP, it's all about Thieves, Guardians and Mesmers.

[Deleted]

I'll just say that I played versus a few tournament teams that knew how to handle conditions yesterday as a conditionmancer and I felt UTTERLY useless. Seriously losing the will to play this class in tPvP, it's all about Thieves, Guardians and Mesmers.

I'm not usually one for fotm stuff in pvp, but even with a guild group we wont join a tourny without one Mesmer/Guardian/Thief. Last two spots would prefer to have Engineer & warrior but any will do, even then doubling up on M/G/T is better