I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[Ynna]

I honestly don't see the problem!

I spent some time putting together my grievances with the traits. Some are minor, some feel more important. And there's also good things about them, or things I don't feel too strongly about. I've only compiled my dislikes, since that was the direction the discussion was going.

Zeal
What's the main use of this line at first glance: The Power makes it obvious part of the purpose is to deal damage. The Concentration makes it clear that Support is also an important part, but extra boon duration will also improve your damage. The minor traits really put an effort on Symbols, which makes me suspect a focus on AoE.
What I don't like about it:

• First of all, the focus on Symbols. If you want a straight-forward, single target damage build, you're pretty much wasting your time with this line, despite the Power it provides.
• I don't like traits that only buff one, specific weapons.
• I don't understand the traits that trigger on falling damage. Is it really that common that you need traits for it.
• There are also no traits that do anything with boons.

Radiance
What's the main use of this line at first glance: This is clearly a damage line, with a strong focus on conditions. The minor traits mesh well with the overal idea behind the line.
What I don't like about it:

• Once again, a trait that only influences one weapon isn't doing it for me. I can understand the Torch one, since most people who go down this line will equip one.
• I don't understand the focus on Signets here. There's only one Signet that actually does something with Conditions.

Valor
What's the main use of this line at first glance: This is clearly the "defense"-line. Every minor traits focuses on Aegis and it provides Toughness.
What I don't like about it:

• Again, a trait that only affects one weapon.
• The traits that influence meditations currently only affect two spells, one of which is an Elite. It seems like a waste, compared what can be in its place.
• The Retributive Armor-trait, while not being a bad trait in and of itself, seems to be only here to provide a use for the Prowess that comes with the line. Nothing else is done with the Prowess.

Honor
What's the main use of this line at first glance: The minor traits and the Compassion seem to indicate that this is a Support-line. The Vitality makes this a great pick for a more defensive build.
What I don't like about it:

• The first minor trait (Vigorous Precision) doesn't fit here at all. It would be better suited in the Radiance line, or even the Valor one. It makes some sense when looking at the second minor trait, but I would think there's a better way to implement it.

Virtues
What's the main use of this line at first glance: I found it hard to see, actually. The build gives Malice and Willpower, but most of the minor traits are about boons, which aren't really that strongly connected to Malice or Willpower (Willpower only slightly)
What I don't like about it:

• I can't say anything about the Consecration-based traits, since I have no idea what a Concecration is. The wiki also doesn't help me there.
• The single Spirit Weapons seems odd here, since other lines have a stronger focus on Spirit weapons. On the other hand it's a good thing, since this way people who like Spirit Weapons can have an extra trait for them.
• The major traits have nothing to do with conditions, which makes this trait-line rather annoying for people who want a burn-heavy build.

[DrakeWurrum]

Zeal actually has Expertise. Virtues has Concentration.

There are things about the traits I dislike as well, but it's mostly small ones. Like how Zeal's minor traits are all about symbols, when the weapons I chose actually don't have any symbols at all. So while I can benefit from some of the major traits, the only benefit I get from the minor traits is the one auto-swiftness symbol I get at low HP. (and if I'm low HP, does getting an extra stack of Vulnerability on the enemy really help me? :S The third minor trait doesn't affect me at ALL)

So I'm encouraged to stay away from Zeal specifically because of my weapon choice, even though the weapons I picked are certainly offensive in nature and I want to build for damage (Sword/Torch + Scepter/Focus), even if they do have a light touch of Support.

The weird thing is that the Sword has an Immobilizing skill, so there's a third major trait I could make use of, but since I have no symbols, again, I'm encouraged to stay away.

In other words, a lot of the major traits benefit weapons that don't have symbols/seals, which is confusing. Even MORE so... all the MAJOR traits having to do with symbols are in Honor?


My other complaint is that Guardians don't get a lot of crit synergy. Sure, I can get 15% crit chance with 1-handed weapons, but all I get out of that is more crits. My crits won't proc anything!

Everything else about the Radiance line works for me. Blind Exposure has great synergy with Blind Justice, for example, and coincidentally with Radiant Power.
Though I agree it's odd to have Signet traits in Radiance...

---------- Post added 2012-04-16 at 05:14 PM ----------

[*]The traits that influence meditations currently only affect two spells, one of which is an Elite. It seems like a waste, compared what can be in its place.

Wrong, btw.

Check the Guardians Skill list and you will see that there's four Meditations, two of which are about teleporting. The wiki doesn't list the skills on the Meditations page correctly.

[vicious796]

Well, you know, we'll have a better idea of how these trees breathe once the BWE starts. As ANet has said a few times, people will be surprised how some of the things work together despite how they look in theory.

***EDIT***

I wish I had it in me to double post since this is special but I can't. Here's part 4 of "A Guardian's Tale"

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/a-g...ale-part-four/

[Loaf Lord]

I find it funny staff is considered a two handed yet I don't see a single animation with them holding it with two hands.

[DrakeWurrum]

I wish I had it in me to double post since this is special but I can't.

Double posts are automatically merged together on this forum.

[vicious796]

Double posts are automatically merged together on this forum.

Does it bump the thread or just act as though I modified it?

OT: I like the way that the story-line is still a regular, structured quest line. I don't think it would have worked any other way.

[Fencers]

Acts as if you modified the initial post.

[Cassandrea]

Back on topic though...

My friend was able to play the BETA before they changed the zeal trait line to what it is now (I believe it was blind on crits, blind = vulnerability, and something else) - the problem here was that if you got your crit quite high... your blind rate was wtfbbqsauce level of evil. I believe for every 100 crits I got about 70-75 blinds out + vulnerability... so it was a bit overpowered.

I did like though that there was synergy with the old line and not so much with this line. The heavy reliance on symbols for the zeal trait line is a bit clunky to use, and in my opinion, kind of weird. I would really like to see applications of conditions or some other sort of direct damage traits rather then the symbols. As for the radiance trait line... maybe just tone down the proc rate of the old one, but this new one is fun too!

[DrakeWurrum]

My main problem with the Zeal traits, is that you don't really get full effectiveness out of Zeal's minor traits without grabbing specific major traits from Honor. I like synergy, but that seems a little forced.

[Cassandrea]

Oh by the way, not sure if this was known before - spirit weapons, when they autoattack, have passive abilities besides the activation abilities... and not nessecarily put on the tooltip :P

Hammer Spirit Weapon passive: every strike has a minor knockdown(1 second) and pushback. Activation: knockdown for about 3 seconds

Sword: every strike is aoe and will cleave. Activation: sword strikes ground and leaves a permanent damage symbol aoe on the ground (it will burn if traited)

didn't get to bow or shield yet... apologies...

and I am sorry if this is repetitious information :P

[DrakeWurrum]

I wonder if the trait Inner Fire activates when you use Zealot's Flame, or if only when somebody applies Burning to you. I hate such situational traits. :S

---------- Post added 2012-04-17 at 02:54 PM ----------

(I believe it was blind on crits, blind = vulnerability, and something else) - the problem here was that if you got your crit quite high... your blind rate was wtfbbqsauce level of evil. I believe for every 100 crits I got about 70-75 blinds out + vulnerability... so it was a bit overpowered.

Then why couldn't they just have it do something other than Blind? ><

[Cassandrea]

I wonder if the trait Inner Fire activates when you use Zealot's Flame, or if only when somebody applies Burning to you. I hate such situational traits. :S

---------- Post added 2012-04-17 at 02:54 PM ----------


Then why couldn't they just have it do something other than Blind? ><

Bah the blind was fine... just lower the crit proc rate... Honestly my sword crit a crap ton so to have it blind at a lower rate I would have been fine...

I actually wish burn stacked in intensity of damage, not time - that way the traits could say crits = burning o0o0o0o0o0o

[DrakeWurrum]

I actually wish burn stacked in intensity of damage, not time - that way the traits could say crits = burning o0o0o0o0o0o

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding

Bleeding is a stackable condition that deals damage over time. Bleeding can stack an unknown number of times and it stacks in intensity.

There's already a condition that does that!

[Cassandrea]

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleeding

There's already a condition that does that!

I know I know.... but I totally wanted fire to do that as well... But now that I think about it... fire did about as much damage as bleeding did at full stacks... so... interesting :P Bleeding up to its total stacks will do about 1400 damage, and fire does roughly the same amount... only difference is fire can be stacked for longer duration for more burny burny...

hmmm never mind... i like this way better!

still amazed at the passive spirit weapon thing though... which is why the hammer has such a slow swing time :P but you can adjust its activation so you swing, activate, swing swing, activate, ect >:P THE EVILLLLLL!

[Ynna]

Well, you know, we'll have a better idea of how these trees breathe once the BWE starts. As ANet has said a few times, people will be surprised how some of the things work together despite how they look in theory.

As soon as I can play a Guardian, I will. I thought about not playing a Guardian in beta, to keep the experience fresh, but decided that it would be worth more of I could comment on the class before the game comes out.
Expect an in-depth critique of the Guardian (better than what I did now) as soon as I played one.

Until then, I'll have to critique the theoretical.

[Cassandrea]

As much as I will critique the theoretical though... dear god nothing is cooler then teleporting to someone and catching everyone around you on fire.... EEEEEEEEEKKKKK...

Arenanet has made a fanboi of me... ugh....

[Deleted]

I'd like to state that while it's perfectly fun to speculate the usefulness of certain major and minor traits in their allocated trees and the way they synergize, there is no way to know for sure how they play out yet. Also, the traits are still constantly changed, especially the guardian one. As far as I could tell, so far, the trees have been changed over a dozen times since I played it in Germany at Gamescom. Which was a few months ago. Considering we still have 2-3 months to go until release (rough estimation), I wouldn't worry too much about the current state of major/minor traits and their usefulness/synergies with playstyles.

[vicious796]

I'd like to state that while it's perfectly fun to speculate the usefulness of certain major and minor traits in their allocated trees and the way they synergize, there is no way to know for sure how they play out yet. Also, the traits are still constantly changed, especially the guardian one. As far as I could tell, so far, the trees have been changed over a dozen times since I played it in Germany at Gamescom. Which was a few months ago. Considering we still have 2-3 months to go until release (rough estimation), I wouldn't worry too much about the current state of major/minor traits and their usefulness/synergies with playstyles.

While there have been changes, I don't know if you can call any "major" (not that you did, just saying in general). All-in-all, the Guardian looks to be a very versatile class. Not only do we have the choice of being offensive or defensive but we have a variety of ways to play in each style. There's burning, blinding (though this is "nerfed"), signets, ground effects, "healing", boons, regular weapons, spirit weapons - the list goes on and on. Beyond that, each playstyle can be further defined by focusing on crit, health, armor, precision - once again, the list goes on.

I really do think mastering all the weapons and playstyles for the Guardian will be a great challenge that isn't just time consuming but entertaining.

[Ynna]

@TheJeckyll: If all minor traits in a line are about Symbols, and it's perfectly possible to want the stats even with a build that uses no Symbols, I don't need to play the game to know that's bad. Same with traits that only boost on weapon. I'm the first to say that you can't judge something without experiencing it for yourself first, but there are things that are just about good design which can be seen on paper as well.

[Deleted]

@TheJeckyll: If all minor traits in a line are about Symbols, and it's perfectly possible to want the stats even with a build that uses no Symbols, I don't need to play the game to know that's bad. Same with traits that only boost on weapon. I'm the first to say that you can't judge something without experiencing it for yourself first, but there are things that are just about good design which can be seen on paper as well.

Yes, but we don't know how good those stat increases are. For all we know, the boosts in raw power you get for going into that tree is only marginal.