I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[Meledelion]

Who said you're "sacrificing" a weaponset for it on the Guardian either? You're dwindling down the Sword/Shield combo to specifically the #2 ability now? Apparently #3 through 5, despite not having parallels on the Greatsword at all, is not part of Sword/Shield?

By your logic, you shouldn't go Greatsword/Hammer either, because Greatsword #5's Pull ability is too similar to the Hammer's ranged immobilize.
Oh, and you shouldn't go Greatsword/Mace+Shield either, since both put down Light combo fields.

The point in going Greatsword/Sword+Shield is so you gain something without giving up mobility. To instead go Hammer/Sword+Shield or whatever build you were talking about, you give up mobility for to gain yet more somewhere else. If you want to maintain mobility at all times, and truly be impossible to pin down/avoid, Greatsword/Sword+X is the best way to go.

We've been over the skills already, I've already broken the sets down before if you won't bother reading it and commenting on that there's no point to discuss this.

And you don't give up mobility at all, the idea is if you need mobility you use your s+sh to get in range and then switch to your hammer to stay in range (so you can keep on doing damage/presure) instead of hobbling after a target. If the 10sec cd on s+sh isn't enough just back out since you won't stick on them with your gs either...

My point isn't that you need to be unkitable my point is that if you're in a situation where you're being kited like mad you'll lose anyways. You can have all the shadowsteps in the world if you don't get the time to atack you will lose.

[Rooflesstoofless]

Did the stress test today...

...did anyone else get the feeling that hammers weren't doing the same kind of damage they were in the past? I was mostly happy with hammers in the BWE's but as of today's stress test I definitely felt like they were doing paltry damage and I was killing mobs far faster with less damage taken running a sword and board. I love hammers so its kind of a bummer.

[Ynna]

Why are you so hell-bent on "proving" that Hammer/Greatsword is not the superior option?
edit: (I'm not calling you out, I mean to say that this is a silly question which results in a yes no debate)

Because I explicitly am not doing that. I already acknowledged (multiple times) that Hammer/Greatsword is a fine build with a different focus than the one I was talking about. At this point I'm only trying to show that Sword+Shield/Greatsword is a fine (and fun) build.

My point isn't that you need to be unkitable my point is that if you're in a situation where you're being kited like mad you'll lose anyways. You can have all the shadowsteps in the world if you don't get the time to attack you will lose.

And yet my experience learns that the build I posted did do great damage, regardless of the build or profession I was fighting. There was plenty of time to attack.

Anyway, we're not going to get anywhere. I can post all the theoretics and my actual experience with the build, but you're not going to accept that a mobile build with nice damage is something that can work.

[Exedore]

My point isn't that you need to be unkitable my point is that if you're in a situation where you're being kited like mad you'll lose anyways. You can have all the shadowsteps in the world if you don't get the time to atack you will lose.

You're missing a key difference between hammer and sword and greatsword. Hammer attacks slowly. Sword and Greatsword both attack faster and have a skill for multiple attacks in a short period. A few seconds in range or with your opponent locked in place via immobilize or knockdown is good enough. Especially with sword where Zealot's Defense has some decent range to it.

It's not like hammer and scepter don't have their share of problems either. Hammer only works if you can get ring of warding around your target. And unless you combo it with the immobilize ability, that's damn hard. Scepter is ranged, but outside of mid-range, it's damage is very unreliable.

The point is, both have their pros and cons. You can't look at the negatives of one set while only looking at the positives of the other.

[Meledelion]

You're missing a key difference between hammer and sword and greatsword. Hammer attacks slowly. Sword and Greatsword both attack faster and have a skill for multiple attacks in a short period. A few seconds in range or with your opponent locked in place via immobilize or knockdown is good enough. Especially with sword where Zealot's Defense has some decent range to it.

It's not like hammer and scepter don't have their share of problems either. Hammer only works if you can get ring of warding around your target. And unless you combo it with the immobilize ability, that's damn hard. Scepter is ranged, but outside of mid-range, it's damage is very unreliable.

The point is, both have their pros and cons. You can't look at the negatives of one set while only looking at the positives of the other.

Again I'm not saying sword+sh or gs are bad, (Zealot's defense indeed is pretty damn strong) what I'm saying is that the toolsets of both don't complement eachother (and that I don't like that). The issue I have with GS/s+sh is that they're weak and strong vs pretty much the same things.
I also agree that a few seconds in range is enough (just like the war GS build) thing is good players will make you waste that window (as you can see in the SS vs paradigm vid regarding GS war).
Also I find it a lot easier to stick on a target if I grab a hammer in one of the sets, getting up ring of warding is easy if you use an immobilize or stun (after which you get a 5second window instead of a 2.5 sec window) and you even get a window in between to do some damage with your hammer.

Yes both hammer and gs and s+sh have their pros and cons, my issue is that the pros and cons of gs and s+sh are very similar whilst the pros and cons of the hammer would 'fill up' the gap better.

If you need flashing blade and leap of faith to get to your target you're better off sticking with flashing blade since the cd is only 10sec vs 20sec on leap (granted if you run around with gs use your 4-5-5-3 and switch you could get decent uptime if you weaponswap and reswap but then my previous point of being forced to switch just to stick on target still stands)

@ynna a mobile build with nice damage can work really well (I run one on my ranger http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fMAQ...VV2FWeVsWogNRA and thief http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYAQRAoa6YlUmKO3eS0E+JA and warrior http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fIAQJARUjkOxuJPOP4QA) the issue I have is that inorder to be mobile with s+sh/gs you need to sacrifce quite a lot of utility skills (like the build I linked) on both the guardian and the warrior(less so since you can get out of immobilizes just from 2 gs skills and one trait).

the only 'issue' we're having is our viewpoints. As drake said I find overlapping tools to be a waste, if you don't that's the end of the discussion.

[mafao]

Did anyone else notice that casting symbols or using slow attacks does not root you anymore? I was able to use the third chain attack of the Hammer while running around. Makes things much more mobile

[Deleted]

Did anyone else notice that casting symbols or using slow attacks does not root you anymore? I was able to use the third chain attack of the Hammer while running around. Makes things much more mobile

2nd hammer attack still requires you to stand still though. Which makes it annoying. They made the cast time on the symbol attack (#2) with the greatsword a tad faster, so it's less annoying.

[Deleted]

Did anyone else notice that casting symbols or using slow attacks does not root you anymore? I was able to use the third chain attack of the Hammer while running around. Makes things much more mobile

yeah, you dont need to hit to activate weapon chains anymore, i think its great, though could be slightly abused, but not too much.

glad mobility has improved since BWE1, that was painful, being so static and mainly melee...

[Ynna]

the only 'issue' we're having is our viewpoints. As drake said I find overlapping tools to be a waste, if you don't that's the end of the discussion.

Closing statement: You can build for versatility or opt for a more focused build. There's nothing wrong with focus, and there's also nothing wrong with being versatile. Both option have their purpose and their advantages and disadvantages.

And I still don't feel I have to sacrifice anything. The point of the build is to do damage and kill people. My two utility signets help that goal and the third (which in my case is Judge's Intervention) can as well. Apart from damage I have good control from both my utilities and weapons and I can survive rather okay, since I'm traiting Signets anyway, so my heal's cooldown is pretty low. (And I get Toughness from traits since I want Prowess). What I'm not good at, is support, but, since that's not the point of my build, I find that trade-off do-able (in part because Guardians have build-in support with the Virtues and our weapons all have some kind of support), just as I find it okay that I do no damage if I'm going for a support-build.

I don't call it a sacrifice, I call it a trade-off and you have to make that for every build you create.

[Deleted]

Closing statement: You can build for versatility or opt for a more focused build. There's nothing wrong with focus, and there's also nothing wrong with being versatile. Both option have their purpose and their advantages and disadvantages.

And I still don't feel I have to sacrifice anything. The point of the build is to do damage and kill people. My two utility signets help that goal and the third (which in my case is Judge's Intervention) can as well. Apart from damage I have good control from both my utilities and weapons and I can survive rather okay, since I'm traiting Signets anyway, so my heal's cooldown is pretty low. (And I get Toughness from traits since I want Prowess). What I'm not good at, is support, but, since that's not the point of my build, I find that trade-off do-able (in part because Guardians have build-in support with the Virtues and our weapons all have some kind of support), just as I find it okay that I do no damage if I'm going for a support-build.

I don't call it a sacrifice, I call it a trade-off and you have to make that for every build you create.

I think trade-off is the right word for it.

[DrakeWurrum]

So. I've been wishing lately for the Longbow Spirit Weapon to be in the healing slot. Am I nuts?

[Zilong]

I dont think so, on the stress test I played with it and did very good xD, plus its fun.

[DrakeWurrum]

Well the main reason I found myself thinking it is that it's basically a utility that heals. I mean, it's not the only one to do that, but it's the kind of healing utility I'd expect to see in a heal slot. It's a shame there's already 3 heals to pick from.

The Bow of Truth has a 60 second CD, 20 second duration, and the activated heal itself has a 20 second CD. The only downside I can see is that it applies AoE healing specifically at the bow's location, which may or may not be your location. (I've noticed Spirit Weapons tend to react a bit slowly)

[Meledelion]

Well the main reason I found myself thinking it is that it's basically a utility that heals. I mean, it's not the only one to do that, but it's the kind of healing utility I'd expect to see in a heal slot. It's a shame there's already 3 heals to pick from.

The Bow of Truth has a 60 second CD, 20 second duration, and the activated heal itself has a 20 second CD. The only downside I can see is that it applies AoE healing specifically at the bow's location, which may or may not be your location. (I've noticed Spirit Weapons tend to react a bit slowly)

Yes the weapons are kind of sluggish (especially the shield seemed to suffer from that). Also I think you could create a really good 'healing' build using bow and +healing

[DrakeWurrum]

Probably. The main thing that I was looking at is that, if I want to go full-on with Spirit Weapons, I'd probably have to take the Bow of Truth to make it work in PvP - not for the healing, but for the condition removal. Sword + Shield + Hammer all together can be fun and powerful, but opens you up to being controlled by the enemy. Either that, or I'd desperately hope to have a team mate that can handle allied cleansing (which basically means Elementalist, Guardian, a Wells Necro (not ideal), or a Ranger with a properly traited pet).

And even then, the Bow's condition removal is automatic, which may not necessarily work out well.

[Migrin]

Hi Guys,

I have played a Warrior/Monk in GW as a main and enjoyed it very much. What I appreciated was the capability of having both, very supportive or aggresive builds. Also I like the theme a lot. Still, I am not sure whether to go Warrior or Guardian with GW2. My main concern is that, according to the class description I read on GW2 wiki, the Warrior is over all more beefy than the Guardian. I assume that the Guardian is using spells instead of raw HP to achieve a certain tankyness but did the Guardian feel squishy for you? I really don't want to play a glass canon or anything the like.

Many thanks in advance.

[zeelic]

Defense does not affect conditions but is still a amazing stat and easy to cap at 1211. I recommend any hardcore pvper to cap it or get as close as possible as it does help out a lot for raw damage. Even when going against heavy condition builds your still taking raw damage from base attacks and other sources more often then not.

[Ynna]

Hi Guys,

I have played a Warrior/Monk in GW as a main and enjoyed it very much. What I appreciated was the capability of having both, very supportive or aggresive builds. Also I like the theme a lot. Still, I am not sure whether to go Warrior or Guardian with GW2. My main concern is that, according to the class description I read on GW2 wiki, the Warrior is over all more beefy than the Guardian. I assume that the Guardian is using spells instead of raw HP to achieve a certain tankyness but did the Guardian feel squishy for you? I really don't want to play a glass canon or anything the like.

Many thanks in advance.

With the right build, and playing properly, you hardly go down in one-on-one fights, and you can do well against up to three players. You don't do a lot of damage with such a build, but you're sturdy as a rock.

And more aggressive builds are certainly possible.

[Migrin]

Thank you so much for the response. So glad to hear that. I was playing around with a build editor and totaly fell in love with this profession. The versatility and range of talents is just great. Can't wait to try out the builds in game. Most probably I will run around burning stuff, leaving an utmost devestation and a lot of smacked people behind, before I calm down and start to use more support oriented decks to backup my collegues ;-)

[zeelive]

Hey guys, I have been playing like 3-4 class this weekend and I really enjoyed the guardian and I think my build was running good so I am going to link it here.

This build has a really good offensive like a good deffensive. But you can’t survive to 5 peoples on you (maybe if played at the best but I don’t think so)

So the point I really liked with this build is that it is versatile. You can go full damage, like you can stay a bit more back ans support with your scepter focur and bubble.

The points I like this build is that you have 2 Teleport. You can teleport with “Flashing Blade” (Sword) to a short distanced ennemy, and you can teleport with “Judge’s Intervention” (Utility Skill) to a long distanced ennemy.
Those 2 teleport really help you to get close to the ennemy. Normally when a caster is getting burn down by someone else they are only trying to run away, stun you, slow, everything they can to get to the long range and now damage you down. So while they run you recieve almost no damage. If they manage to get away you just use your second teleport. and since they don’t have a big CD you can use 7 teleport under 1 minute. (6 of them are “Flashing Blade” (Sword) 10 sec CD and the “Judge’s Intervention” (Utility Skill) 45 sec CD).
After all those teleport if you are in deep trouble you have 2 more alternative. “Bane Signet” (Utility Skill) that Stun and Damage an ennemy (Range 1200) or swich to your Scepter/Focus and use “Chains of Light” that lock down your openent in place and making them vulnerable.

On top of that if you have multiple people on you, you just use “Shield of Absorption” to get them away and have an open area to flee, or to fight heh.

A good way to flee is when you have “Shield of Absorption”(Shield) up and “Judge’s Intervention” (Utility Skill) up.
Ex.: You have 4 ennemies on you trying to get you down, and you see another ennemy far away.
You can use your “Shield of Absorption”(Shield) to knock the ennemy back so they don’t stun/slow you and then you use your “Judge’s Intervention” (Utility Skill) on the ennemy that is far. There you can have a relatively easy escape

So normally with those 5 things you can get far into a fight.

Heres the build:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simul...0.0.30.30.10.0

____________________________________________________________________________
Amulet + Jewel: Soldier’s + Berserker’s: 923 power | 569 toughness | 514 vitality | 75 precision | 5% critical damage

Defensive Runes: 6 x Rune of the Forge: 165 toughness | at 50% health you gain protection for 10s and burn all nearby foes. (cooldown: 60s) | +20% protection duration | +15% burning duration

OR

Offensive Runes: 6 x Rune of the Divinity: +60 All Stats | +12% Crit Damage

Sigil (Sword and Sceptre mainhand): Sigil of Superior Blood: 30% chance to life steal on critical

Sigil (Shield and Focus offhand): Sigil of Superior Earth: 60% chance to do a 5s bleed on critical
____________________________________________________________________________

The most important think to not forget is the Amulet. Those thing are changing everything. Maybe you got the best badass build in the world, but if you don’t have the right amulet that’s fuking up everything!

If you want to see this build in action check this out !