I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[grandpab]

"L2dodge! " - But really, it's about dodging and counter them with your abilities You'll learn in time, it's hard:P

In previous tests my guardian was always the profession I had the most fun with in spvp...but today...this whole test I was just pissed off the entire time basically. I don't know what it was, but I swear people had it out for me and they wanted me to be perma crippled.

[DrakeWurrum]

I had signet of resolve, Smite condition, and purging flames (was a build built for burning), but it just wasn't enough. I swapped one ability out for contemplation of purity, but still not enough.

I kept running in to this earth elementalist...He was the one that was pissing me off the most. Fighting him was just stupid and the way he could kite me and mitigate my damage made it a losing battle no matter how hard I tried.

Hrm. Maybe a burning build is just bad for it? It's also worth noting that you should maybe avoid going double melee weps, to avoid exactly that situation.

I have noticed that the Guardian's primary weakness is, basically... mobility. They're kinda like actual army tanks. They can take a beating and can hit pretty hard, but they ain't too mobile.
Obviously, there's some mobility improvements you can get, but I mean relative to other professions - especially Warrior and Thief.

[Valeron]

So I did end up playing today for a bit. Played Guardian, quite liked it. I went with a staff/greatsword combo, thought it worked out pretty well.

[DrakeWurrum]

Something I just realized with the Mace/Shield weapon set up.

Shield of Absorption applies a Light Field. Protector's Strike is a Whirl combo finisher. I think the most skilled players in this game will be able to take advantage of combos like that... although more specifically combo fields from other players.

[Arkenaw]

Something I just realized with the Mace/Shield weapon set up.

Shield of Absorption applies a Light Field. Protector's Strike is a Whirl combo finisher. I think the most skilled players in this game will be able to take advantage of combos like that... although more specifically combo fields from other players.

I don't know if you can do that since you kneel for the duration of SoA, but with a greatsword you can apply the symbol of wrath and send cleansing bolts everywhere with whirling wrath!

[Deleted]

^Same can be said with Greatsword - Auto-attack full chain... until reset... stacking up might.. put down symbol spin around... and mobs basicly lay dead before you...

[DrakeWurrum]

I don't know if you can do that since you kneel for the duration of SoA, but with a greatsword you can apply the symbol of wrath and send cleansing bolts everywhere with whirling wrath!

Ah, was not aware of the kneeling. Hopefully other players take advantage of the combo field then.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 08:35 PM ----------

I've actually been wondering, as it doesn't say on the wiki, and I haven't had the chance to test before since I don't have a level 30+ Guardian....

If I use Tome of Wrath/Courage, am I locked out of my utilities?

[Zilong]

Right now, after pvping for 5 hours haha. I would like to add that to my previous statements about guardian.

Wow, necros are freaking immortal lol xD. Not really but, they seem to be very good at the soaking damage and running away alive.

Faced alot of guardians, most of the times after a few 1v1 and other encounters that I just focus on other people. Too much to handle.

And one thing about the thiefs, whenever I was about to Finish Them, they would ALWAYS dissapear. Idk if it was a bug, but right when I started F he would (100% of th time) just vanish just to appear seconds later somewhere else. I just had to finish them by damage, not Finish. I hope its a bug.

But back to guardian. I still feel like they are too forgiving :O, I`ve met at least 10, all of 10 kept an awesome fight with me, killing me, surviving or anything else.
Kinda disappointed, not sure what I need to kill one of you guys?

[DrakeWurrum]

And one thing about the thiefs, whenever I was about to Finish Them, they would ALWAYS dissapear. Idk if it was a bug, but right when I started F he would (100% of th time) just vanish just to appear seconds later somewhere else. I just had to finish them by damage, not Finish. I hope its a bug.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Bomb_%28thief%29

[Zilong]

Wow, 10 seconds cd seems so short for this skill, even tho it felt ALOT less than 10 secs! No lie. It doesnt take 10 seconds to get to where he vanished + Finish him. o.0

[DrakeWurrum]

Wow, 10 seconds cd seems so short for this skill, even tho it felt ALOT less than 10 secs! No lie. It doesnt take 10 seconds to get to where he vanished + Finish him. o.0

You just really shouldn't use the finishing move to finish anybody. Most of the time I found it was actually more effective to just hit them and actually keep attacking them as if they were alive. Even for non-thieves.

It's probably the case that they need to do something about that, but I frankly believe they should completely remove that F interaction.

[Zilong]

You mean remove the F interaction for Pvp or for all of it?

Yeah, I finish mostly because I seem to be the only one that tries to Defend and make some strategy out of the game, so usually 1 of them comes to defend what I'm attacking, or a smarty pants come where Im defending. So when its 1v1 Finish works (Besides that thief ).

But when its alot of people just doesnt work.

[DrakeWurrum]

You mean remove the F interaction for Pvp or for all of it?

Talking for pvp, obviously. I just don't honestly see the point to it.

People see the Thief's ability to vanish as broken because it's probably the only reliable way to "interrupt" that finish mechanic (aside from I suppose, Vengeance) and have a chance to survive - nobody else really has a counter to it. So, in a way, used on anybody except a Thief, I actually feel that the F interaction is overpowered. Blind doesn't affect it anymore, last I checked.

[Exedore]

Killing blow is better than straight damage for builds that aren't glass cannons.

[DrakeWurrum]

Actually, now that I look around at some other skills... I can't see why people call it OP. Rangers can command their pet to revive them. Warriors can literally rise back up from the downed state. Elementalists get Mist Form. Guardians have a knock-back skill, but no self-rezzing ability when Downed.

The only way it could be seen as OP is that, according to the wiki, it's got a 10 second CD... but I don't think 10 seconds is right. It feels much longer than that. I will admit that when the 3rd skill becomes available, I certainly don't feel excited the way I do for Vengeance. I don't find my thoughts going "Come on already, I need to use that skill before I die!"
And hell, even then... every time I've used it, I would teleport just slightly away from them. Like, I could still hit them with melee attacks if I wasn't downed kind of distance. People don't seem to understand just how ridiculously short it's range is.

[Zilong]

But dont you guys think that the downed state is something that can be helped by team play? I mean, If you are in the heat of the war, you will try to interrupt a "F" on a team mate. Making the downed state something to a "maybe comeback", but that in reality you should actually be dead when down haha.

Not sure if that made much sense lol

[Larynx]

Actually, now that I look around at some other skills... I can't see why people call it OP. Rangers can command their pet to revive them. Warriors can literally rise back up from the downed state. Elementalists get Mist Form. Guardians have a knock-back skill, but no self-rezzing ability when Downed.

The only way it could be seen as OP is that, according to the wiki, it's got a 10 second CD... but I don't think 10 seconds is right. It feels much longer than that. I will admit that when the 3rd skill becomes available, I certainly don't feel excited the way I do for Vengeance. I don't find my thoughts going "Come on already, I need to use that skill before I die!"
And hell, even then... every time I've used it, I would teleport just slightly away from them. Like, I could still hit them with melee attacks if I wasn't downed kind of distance. People don't seem to understand just how ridiculously short it's range is.

Because the cooldown is short enough to prolong your death by 30+ seconds. That's just annoying as fuck for the other players, and it's incredibly unbalanced compared to the other abilities.

A warrior? He dies at the end of the effect, and the actual cooldown is long enough that most of the time you can't actually use it.
Ranger? Healing is irrelevant when all it takes is someone to press F. Other classes can heal already, rangers can just get up faster if left alone.
Mist Form has a long enough cooldown as well, and don't even try to argue about guardians.

The way it currently is, it's not worth trying to finish a thief unless you have quickness. But if you need to use one of the most powerful abilities in the game in order to finish a downed thief... there's some serious balance issues that need to be worked out. Right now it's more viable to just switch to a ranged weapon and shoot the thief whenever they get out of stealth so they can't bandage. Provided RNG doesn't teleport them somewhere ridiculous like the top of the clocktower, you'll eventually kill them.

My suggestion: 25 second cooldown. Or, 10 second cooldown, but it doesn't teleport you.

While we're on the subject of downed states, lets nerf necro as well. Remove the current 2 ability and replace it with the current 1 ability, but with a 4/5/6 second cooldown. Make the one ability some sort of generic low damage shadow bolt thingy.

[DrakeWurrum]

A warrior? He dies at the end of the effect

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sweet_Revenge

Guarantee you: it will be required by competitive PvP teams if you're a Warrior.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 11:19 PM ----------

Ranger? Healing is irrelevant when all it takes is someone to press F.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Call_Companion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lick_Wounds

[Exedore]

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sweet_Revenge

Guarantee you: it will be required by competitive PvP teams if you're a Warrior.

Guarantee you competitive warriors won't go near that trait in its current state. That's why it's rumored to be getting buffed such that the chance is innate and the trait makes it 100%. You're better off rallying for real or just taking the death then. Against skilled opponents in a team setting, the chance that you'd beat them within vengeance is small and then you only have a chance to not die anyway. If you could beat them with vengeance, chances are that you could also do that with downed 1 and 2 or an ally would come along and help you. Both of those are a 100% chance.

[Larynx]

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sweet_Revenge

Guarantee you: it will be required by competitive PvP teams if you're a Warrior.

---------- Post added 2012-06-27 at 11:19 PM ----------


http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Call_Companion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lick_Wounds

Congratulations, you've successfully refuted nothing.

Firstly, the chance of rally is unknown. Secondly, the point still stands again that the ability is balanced by the fact of its longer cooldown. As for the ranger stuff, that shows nothing I haven't already stated. Again, it is only useful if the player is left alone.

Additionally, you should not cherry pick a single piece of my post. Argue against all of it, or argue against none of it. The point still stands for why I believe that Smoke Bomb is imbalanced.