Loot mechanics in Operations, dumb

[Alcan]

Personally I hate the way loot is divided up in operations. There are a few reasons why I hate it so ill list them and explain.
1) There really isn't a social feel to the looting. What I mean by this is perhaps <<player X>> needs an item for 4pce and for <<player y>> the same item is just a slight upgrade because he already has his 4pce.<< PLayer y>> could pass on the item for<< player X>>, however this can't happen with the current loot system
2) Guilds are also prevented from gearing up people with specific roles first, perhaps tanks, healers.
3)IF people think that the loot systems stops ninja looters it really doesn't due the the fact loot restrictions are only on class items. People can still need on crafting materials and mounts, ect.
4) IT gives items to people that already have that item is it will now either be useless to them or it will go to their offspec where another person could have really used the item.
5) mainly though in general it just restricts the groups freedom with the loot which I think is stupid.

[bobsmith06]

I think its smart it gives it more of a random feel and there is enough items for everyone to gear up equally, and the items dont get wasted in the least you can use the mods for your other items

[Deleted]

Alright..

1) Social feel to looting? While I can understand that you might feel that the looting system is annoying the way that there's no need/greed on class items, it still means that people will get loot, maybe not on every boss - sometimes you might get a crap ton of loot, but you will eventually get something and the way that "everyone" gets loot every operation is so much better than praying to the RNG gods that a very specific piece of loot you want drops.

2) Gearing up specific people isn't hard. Do hardmodes, there's 7 of them and running them regulary, clearing them and getting the daily and weekly done should help both healers and tanks gear up in absolutely no time, even faster if you get a little help from the columi and tionese tokens from hardmodes.

3) So it doesn't stop ninja looting with mounts, biometric alloy and the epic cells and epic schematics, big whoop. I'm sorry, but since when did people start pugging operations? I sure haven't seen that done, even though it's rather easy on normal. I doubt the system is in place to stop ninja looting, but rather give more people the chance at loot, no matter if they can use it or not.

4) Again a very understandable point, but you forget something - RNG - It exists in every game. Haven't you ever played in a 10 man guild in WoW? You know how annoying it is to get a drop of mail agility bracers when nobody in your group needs it, both for main and offspec? It happens, this is just another way of coping with it. I'll give you an example. Yesterday evening I had an operation run with my guild and we managed to kill 5/5 EV and 3/5 KP - None of us had ever been there before. I managed to get my hands on 2 pieces of loot I could use and 2 pieces I already had or tokens I could turn in for offspec gear. I was the only operative and I was the only imperial agent. I realize how this could be an issue with people of the same class, but if you balance your operations group with mixed classes you would ever have that problem, so it's just a matter of sorting things out properly.

5) Not really a reason why the loot is dumb, just a recap.

TL;DR: Overall, I would give you the response of, if you don't like it, don't bother playing. It's such a tiny tiny part of the game you're annoyed about that it seems you're trying to go down to the most minimal detail you don't like - Which indicates you don't enjoy yourself and in that case, you shouldn't be paying to play the game. Don't worry. Be happy mate.

[Jamber]

I think its smart it gives it more of a random feel and there is enough items for everyone to gear up equally, and the items dont get wasted in the least you can use the mods for your other items

Oh, I assure you, it is definitely not smart. It is darn random though.

[Maes]

Loot is only automatically assigned in normal mode, which is designed for pugs to go through (think lfr)

On Hard and Nightmare loot is done in standard mmo fashion and can be rolled on or master looted as your group sees fit.

TLDR: Do hard modes.

[obdigore]

Loot is only automatically assigned in normal mode, which is designed for pugs to go through (think lfr)

On Hard and Nightmare loot is done in standard mmo fashion and can be rolled on or master looted as your group sees fit.

TLDR: Do hard modes.

This is the correct response. My server is pugging HM EV at the moment, so...

[BeingRepressed]

Every one of your problems stems from the fact that you're running "normal" mode operations, which are ridiculously easy. Normal operations are tuned for PUGs and thus loot is automatically randomly distributed to prevent a dishonest leader from screwing over the rest of the group.

If you're in a competent guild you should be raiding Hard/Nightmare mode raiding where you can actually distribute loot as you see fit. The hard difficulty of the current raiding tier is actually fairly easy; if you have experience in WoW it's roughly equivalent to WotLK Naxxramas.

[obdigore]

Every one of your problems stems from the fact that you're running "normal" mode operations, which are ridiculously easy. Normal operations are tuned for PUGs and thus loot is automatically randomly distributed to prevent a dishonest leader from screwing over the rest of the group.

If you're in a competent guild you should be raiding Hard/Nightmare mode raiding where you can actually distribute loot as you see fit. The hard difficulty of the current raiding tier is actually fairly easy; if you have experience in WoW it's roughly equivalent to WotLK Naxxramas.

I found HM Soa harder than anything in Naxx. Of course the 'hardest' boss in Naxx was doing the dance

[Sangomah]

I found HM Soa harder than anything in Naxx. Of course the 'hardest' boss in Naxx was doing the dance

Just means you did Wrath of the Lich King Naxxramas and not the original one ^^

Anyway

We did normal EV 8 man last night and it was a cakewalk. Some people got upgrades, but its basically the 8 man version of D7, Kaon, False Emp and Battle for Illum so its not like most people actually need gear if you didnt hit it from the start. It just removes some of the rng as its 8 people so easier to fill out the different classes than in a 4 man.

its a good way to gear and its not so bad rng that you dont get ANY useful gear along the way. Think we got about 8 decent upgrades yday alone and that was our first raid with a pretty good geared group from before.

We didnt do hardmode simply because we wanted to see how it was an only had 1.5 hours to do it in ^^

[gualdhar]

I found HM Soa harder than anything in Naxx. Of course the 'hardest' boss in Naxx was doing the dance

Soa isn't hard. Soa's bugs are hard.

[obdigore]

Just means you did Wrath of the Lich King Naxxramas and not the original one ^^

Anyway

We did normal EV 8 man last night and it was a cakewalk. Some people got upgrades, but its basically the 8 man version of D7, Kaon, False Emp and Battle for Illum so its not like most people actually need gear if you didnt hit it from the start. It just removes some of the rng as its 8 people so easier to fill out the different classes than in a 4 man.

its a good way to gear and its not so bad rng that you dont get ANY useful gear along the way. Think we got about 8 decent upgrades yday alone and that was our first raid with a pretty good geared group from before.

We didnt do hardmode simply because we wanted to see how it was an only had 1.5 hours to do it in ^^

This is true, I started leveling in Vanilla and made Cap about a week before BC was released.

And yes, Normal EV/KP can be done with just oranges you used while leveling, and it isn't as if Tionese is much better, and don't get me started on what the devs were smoking when they put the mods into the Rakata gear

[Sangomah]

This is true, I started leveling in Vanilla and made Cap about a week before BC was released.

And yes, Normal EV/KP can be done with just oranges you used while leveling, and it isn't as if Tionese is much better, and don't get me started on what the devs were smoking when they put the mods into the Rakata gear

My fav part is that the mods from the imperial agent is the best mods/enhance for sorcs :P

[obdigore]

Soa isn't hard. Soa's bugs are hard.

Meh. We had more trouble controlling his balls (of lightning) on hard mode than I ever had in Naxx, not that it was much trouble. That is really the only difficult thing about the entire place. And the sad thing is, Soa, even bug free, is more difficult than Karugga. (I want his hat)

---------- Post added 2012-02-28 at 02:46 AM ----------

My fav part is that the mods from the imperial agent is the best mods/enhance for sorcs :P

Just the helmet though, iirc.

all my Tanking gear has Accuracy on it in Rakata, so apparently I'm supposed to have slightly more health, but less defense/shield, and so become more of a mana sponge for the healers as my gear improves

[Raeli]

As others have said, I think the best thing to do is just go to Hardmodes, assuming you have any sort of raid experience from Wow, particularly if you ever managed to at least clear all the normal modes, and get started on at least some level of wow hardmodes, then you should just go straight into Hardmode raids to be honest.

Other than Soa, they are all very easy, in some cases even easier than the normal mode (G4-B3 for instance is WAY easier in Hardmode), and you can assign loot however you please. However, as Master Looter is currently bugged (Although I think it is fixed in the next patch?) you should use the default loot system.

Soa requires a bit of co-ordination, and learning, primarily because there are some really nasty RNG things (and bugs) that can happen that until you're really comfortable with the fight, will wipe you a fair bit - of course, you could be lucky with RNG and those things not happen, thus killing it very quickly, but things like the platforms not properly spawning, the boss randomly despawning, a healer being trapped and one being thrown, a player getting an orb then instantly being thrown (and thus killed through no fault of their own, with no way to save them), and various other things can really slow down your progress on him. Mechanically, he's not hard to learn, just as I say, there are so many bugs that can occur and then some really nasty RNG that doesn't help.

Still, you should be able to easily farm 9/10 Hardmode bosses without any issue compared to the Normal mode, and you'll be earning yourself a big chunk of Rakata level gear too.

[Sangomah]

Thats actually a very unrelated question to gearing. I tank for my group and p3 of Soa is scetchy at best. We wiped due to me dying to the stuff thats supposed to knock his shield off hit me instead. There is literally no indication of where its landing. Anyone got any tips and tricks for that?

[Alvito]

Loot is only automatically assigned in normal mode, which is designed for pugs to go through (think lfr)

On Hard and Nightmare loot is done in standard mmo fashion and can be rolled on or master looted as your group sees fit.

TLDR: Do hard modes.

I know most groups wont ML because it still bugs out. I know from personal experience and have heard from others BW gives the same crap we found no evidence of the loot not being handed out correctly or some twist on that. So if ML bugs then you just lost that item.

---------- Post added 2012-02-28 at 08:14 AM ----------

I found HM Soa harder than anything in Naxx. Of course the 'hardest' boss in Naxx was doing the dance

If ppl struggled on the dance then they shouldnt have kept raiding. Crap shoots up from the floor in 4 set areas in a set order thats not hard at all. The only way it maybe was hard is if some ranged picked up aggro dpsing during the dance so she charged the stage afterwards screwing up the desease.

OT If you guys are in a point where you still need loot to move to harder modes then yeah the loot system you will face for a bit sucks, luckily you should be past it soon.

[obdigore]

Thats actually a very unrelated question to gearing. I tank for my group and p3 of Soa is scetchy at best. We wiped due to me dying to the stuff thats supposed to knock his shield off hit me instead. There is literally no indication of where its landing. Anyone got any tips and tricks for that?

I believe it is technically P5, but :P

Yes you should be fully healed up and you should be able to survive it. It isn't as if Soa actually hits hard or there is a lot of damage going about in that phase. If DPS is breaking mind traps as they should, your healers have no excuse for you not to be topped off. Get under it, wait a couple seconds after it stops moving, then pop a CD if you feel you need to.

We have even kept it going for 2 of those after enrage because only once he is enraged should it kill you in one shot, and if you have two tanks...

[Raeli]

Thats actually a very unrelated question to gearing. I tank for my group and p3 of Soa is scetchy at best. We wiped due to me dying to the stuff thats supposed to knock his shield off hit me instead. There is literally no indication of where its landing. Anyone got any tips and tricks for that?

I usually position so I'm looking up, and the bottom is just above his head. It will hit both me and him, but unless he's enraged, it won't kill me - it does 50% of my hp. On my Shadow I usually pop Resilience if we hit the enrage, which will make me immune to the damage from it. I don't think you can reduce damage enough though on the others to survive it if it hits you while he's enraged - it's always one shot me on my Vanguard, with everything up.

As for when it's going to land, I usually count down 25 seconds in my head from when I see it coming off of the side of the room. It's somewhere around that. You will notice, however, about 3-4 seconds before it will land, the yellow circles around it will get slightly brighter, and then a second or two before it will land, the whole thing glows yellow. As I say, I usually make a best guess and "feel" it, some times it seems to be faster, but I'm sure that's just me as I get distracted by other things as I'm also leading the raid, and so focusing on the orbs, mind traps, and making sure everyone is doing their job properly.

[Sangomah]

I raid lead too. Would just be nice to get a shadow spot on the floor indicating. Atm I am looking up, but I will try to see if I can do it from the top and look straight down instead. I gues if not I gotta rotate cd's I guess

[Raeli]

Yes you should be fully healed up and you should be able to survive it. It isn't as if Soa actually hits hard or there is a lot of damage going about in that phase. If DPS is breaking mind traps as they should, your healers have no excuse for you not to be topped off. Get under it, wait a couple seconds after it stops moving, then pop a CD if you feel you need to.

We have even kept it going for 2 of those after enrage because only once he is enraged should it kill you in one shot, and if you have two tanks...

Pretty much this.

Damage going out is very low, so you should never be one shot until he enraged, and your healers should also be DPSing the boss when his shield is down too. The healing requirement is very light in this phase, and having some extra burst is always nice.

---------- Post added 2012-02-28 at 08:23 AM ----------

I raid lead too. Would just be nice to get a shadow spot on the floor indicating. Atm I am looking up, but I will try to see if I can do it from the top and look straight down instead. I gues if not I gotta rotate cd's I guess

I haven't tried looking down, only looking up - certainly you must have camera pivot on though, without it, it's much harder. Certainly it would be nicer if there was some on ground indicator. In Esseles the last boss puts purple marks on the floor, in the normal mode, they start spinning, slowly at first, and speed up, and then after about 2 seconds, the lightning fires - it would be cool if a similar thing happened here, some animation on the ground, that started stationary, and started spinning at an ever increasing rate until it would land.