LFR isn't and never was about "seeing the content."

[Danur]

Whether Blizzard intended it or not, to the vast majority of the playerbase, LFR has always been about being a big juicy loot piñata for them to whack at once a week. Proof of this statement you ask? Imagine if the gear it dropped was below Heroic dungeon level gear ilvl, or if it didn't drop loot at all? Who would be in there just to gear up for heroics or for the lore experience of seeing the end-boss go down? Most of the players that clamor for this type of crap saying couldn't care less about that.

Really, all this has been about, is just the new mentality of the playerbase finally feeling that Blizzard should be responsible for making sure those that put in the work, maximize their performance, and earn hard-to-complete feats in the game, never have anything that they can't have for practically free, with no effort whatsoever. Proof of that? Look how we now have gradual nerfs over normal and heroic modes, giving those same players access to not the content, but the GEAR that comes from clearing that content. They already got to kill all of the bosses, they have the aesthetic look of all of the weapons and tier that comes with LFR, why do they need to clear through harder content made easier, thus negating the point of 3 difficulty levels? It's no longer harder, so you mighta as well have just stuck to the freebie mode.

But why do they want to clear it so bad? It's not about the lore, and it's not about the progression. It's about the loot

[bcbully]

Whether Blizzard intended it or not, to the vast majority of the playerbase, LFR has always been about being a big juicy loot piñata for them to whack at once a week. Proof of this statement you ask? Imagine if the gear it dropped was below Heroic dungeon level gear ilvl, or if it didn't drop loot at all? Who would be in there just to gear up for heroics or for the lore experience of seeing the end-boss go down? Most of the players that clamor for this type of crap saying couldn't care less about that.

Really, all this has been about, is just the new mentality of the playerbase finally feeling that Blizzard should be responsible for making sure those that put in the work, maximize their performance, and earn hard-to-complete feats in the game, never have anything that they can't have for practically free, with no effort whatsoever. Proof of that? Look how we now have gradual nerfs over normal and heroic modes, giving those same players access to not the content, but the GEAR that comes from clearing that content. They already got to kill all of the bosses, they have the aesthetic look of all of the weapons and tier that comes with LFR, why do they need to clear through harder content made easier, thus negating the point of 3 difficulty levels? It's no longer harder, so you mighta as well have just stuck to the freebie mode.

But why do they want to clear it so bad? It's not about the lore, and it's not about the progression. It's about the loot

I always loved the cry of the bad and or the timeless "we want to SEE the content too!"

[eErike]

Thread number 99 about LFR this week, lets se if we can hit 100!

And yes, LFR is for seeing the content but it still needs to be rewarding or many would not do it.

And I've never understood why you don't want people who can't raid to get any loot at all? It's nice for them to look cool to.
Besides, the uppgrade from LFR to normal in the gear is sick, it's just so anoing to see players yell "I want to be the special someone and I can dedicate 120+ hours a week on a game so it should take atleast that time to kill stuff or it's not good enough, but remember that 130 hours would be to much, because I can't raid that much"

[Deleted]

You know, when I started caring about raiding at the release of TBC, people said what you are saying in this thread. Even back then.

Old wine in new bottles...

[Deleted]

Loot indeed
And the joke is, the more stuff blizzard gives me the less interest i have in the game

I have been both casual and hardcore raider/arena player and when everyone else was decked in purples and i was getting roflstomped across the yard in heroics and bgs the more i played and fun i had
Now i have it all, damn near top of the line pve and pvp gear and i just dont care
Sometimes i do some bgs but since everyone has near top of the line gear i soon alt f4

[Danur]

I always loved the cry of the bad and or the timeless "we want to SEE the content too!"

I loved the other thread yesterday where people were raging at how they can't collect a free Naxx achievement black proto drake, while in the final tier of the next expansions gear. Hilarious how far the playerbase has fallen in this game.

[eErike]

I loved the other thread yesterday where people were raging at how they can't collect a free Naxx achievement black proto drake, while in the final tier of the next expansions gear. Hilarious how far the playerbase has fallen in this game.

I'm a 100% sure that you would not buy a Ferrari if everyone could afford it, even if it was your favourite car just "cuzz you wouldn't be special".

[Martinussen]

Yes. lots of lootwhores only want loot.
They believe that because they pay the same money as me every month, they should get the same rewards as me every month. They dont(often) give a fuck about me clearing hc DS because me and my group got skills. They dont care that they cant even push 20k dps with full LFR gear. They still want loot as good as mine when im many times better.

But just to clarify, the nerf on hc and normal isn't to let LFR noobs clear it. 10% nerf wont pull them through normal. It is for guilds like the one im in to clear bosses a little easier.

[IronRabbit]

You are half right, but only half right.

For players that raid, it is the loot piñata as you described. It's a way to add on decent gear until the rolls/DKP/loot council/whatever come your way in the "real" version.

However, you are forgetting the large portion of the player base that does not do regular raids for whatever reason. I have two friends who are like this. They play the game and enjoy it but don't have the time or skill to raid any kind of progression content. Up until now, they have always felt like they were missing something. The current content was always locked out to them. If they got in a raid at all, it was a pug/alt affair that rarely got far. RF gives people like this (who I remind you are paying the same monthly fee to play as you) a feeling that no part of the game is completely closed to them. That isn't a bad thing.

Now an argument could be made that 384 is too high an ilvl for RF loot. It seems to me to strike a good balance that ensures that raiding players still want to do RF and keep the numbers participating up.

[Puri]

And? Do you think that's news? The whole game is about progressing your character by acquiring better equipment, that's the only motivation in MMOPGs.

[Mican17]

Casual players love LFR -- it gives them something to do when there isn't much to do nowadays. You need the satisfaction of casual players, otherwise, player subscription numbers will continue to falter. If that happens, the quality of the game will suffer accordingly.

TLDR: stop whining; LFR is beneficial for the game no matter how you look at it.

[Shrouded]

It's about the loot. And yes, the more easily I was able to attain loot, the less I found myself caring about it. Upgrades mean nothing to me now.

[Deleted]

I loved the other thread yesterday where people were raging at how they can't collect a free Naxx achievement black proto drake, while in the final tier of the next expansions gear. Hilarious how far the playerbase has fallen in this game.

I loved blizzards response that "In some cases, we like to keep the mounts for those that managed to complete the content when it was at its peak. I think of it as a nod to the effort that went into achieving the task. Isn't it a good thing that, as Kazera said, some things can stay rare?" When naxx is pretty much THE only case of this bar the scarab lord / immortal / HOTT. I wish they'd either do this with all of their content or not use an excuse that literally only applies in this case.

I'd be happy to see all the meta achievements changed to a "challenge" mode where you're scaled down in level and gear for the raid.

[Labz]

Honestly if the LFR gear was sub-heroic I believe that I would still do it once just for the experience.

[Musta Kyy]

Imo LFR (maybe HoT heroics too) should drop lower ilvl gear, so that people would actually have to go from farming heroics to FL and then to DS, and could use LFR just to get somekind of idea of basic tactics in Normal DS.
Part of the 'epic raiding feel' that WoW had back in Vanilla, BC and early WotLK came from progressing from raid instance to another.

[MestHoop]

Whether Blizzard intended it or not, to the vast majority of the playerbase, LFR has always been about being a big juicy loot piñata for them to whack at once a week. Proof of this statement you ask? Imagine if the gear it dropped was below Heroic dungeon level gear ilvl, or if it didn't drop loot at all? Who would be in there just to gear up for heroics or for the lore experience of seeing the end-boss go down? Most of the players that clamor for this type of crap saying couldn't care less about that.

Really, all this has been about, is just the new mentality of the playerbase finally feeling that Blizzard should be responsible for making sure those that put in the work, maximize their performance, and earn hard-to-complete feats in the game, never have anything that they can't have for practically free, with no effort whatsoever. Proof of that? Look how we now have gradual nerfs over normal and heroic modes, giving those same players access to not the content, but the GEAR that comes from clearing that content. They already got to kill all of the bosses, they have the aesthetic look of all of the weapons and tier that comes with LFR, why do they need to clear through harder content made easier, thus negating the point of 3 difficulty levels? It's no longer harder, so you mighta as well have just stuck to the freebie mode.

But why do they want to clear it so bad? It's not about the lore, and it's not about the progression. It's about the loot

LFR is aimed at players who do not have a guild (or at least a guild interested in raiding), but who want to get into raiding (MAINLY! There's other people obviously who use this feature, but this was the main reason it was implemented as joining a PuG as a completely new player would be like asking to join the army at the age of 9: Fat chance you'll get in, and if you do you will perform worse than the other people and get yelled at).

The nerfs to normal and heroic content are aimed at people who DO raid with a guild, but either are not hardcore enough (don't raid often, not as disciplined, the list goes on...) or just simply hit a brick wall after a while. Now obviously there's a TON of different people who fall into this category, however the general consensus is this: They were raiding before the nerfs, but did not clear content before nerfs hit. The nerfs are there to speed up progression a bit. They might not want it (often seen as QQ on forums such as these), but most of the time blizz just wants people to be done with content before they release new shit (for example, Ulduar and ToC had a lot of overlap, even though ToC gave superior loot by far).

Blizz HAS nerfed content in the past to make it "puggable". T11 normal modes was a good example of this, where they nerfed it by 30% (iirc) over the board. Not just health and damage, but duration before abilities went off and cast time of interruptible spells as well. Everything just became 30% easier, making t11 normal modes puggable. Why did they do this? Because there was no max level puggable raid content out in cata at that time (aside from 1 BH boss), so hopefully we will not see these kinds of nerfs from now on, as they have LFR for this group of people.

Anyway, I hope this clarifies a few things on the matter and I'd like to hear your feedback (not just the OP, but anyones of course ). I have always had a mindset like this and I'd like to see if other people agree or not (as I tend to find people to be too negative about things, mostly because to me they don't look at things in the bigger picture).



Edit:

I'd be happy to see all the meta achievements changed to a "challenge" mode where you're scaled down in level and gear for the raid.

I've thought about this and it brings up a very big problem: Those instances were designed with certain things in mind, like resist gear in vanilla/TBC, tank healing just being "spam biggest spell" in WotLK and "interrupt this or you wipe" in t11 of cata (the list goes on, but I think most raiders can think of enough other examples).
Say MoP releases and I want to do SSC again with some friends, do we need to farm up lvl 90 frost and nature resist gear to do Hydros? Seems a little bit excessive for me, plus an impossible feat for blizz to rebalance every single raid encounter they've made so far every time an expansion releases.

[MasterHamster]

Whether Blizzard intended it or not, to the vast majority of the playerbase, LFR has always been about being a big juicy loot piñata for them to whack at once a week. Proof of this statement you ask? Imagine if the gear it dropped was below Heroic dungeon level gear ilvl, or if it didn't drop loot at all? Who would be in there just to gear up for heroics or for the lore experience of seeing the end-boss go down? Most of the players that clamor for this type of crap saying couldn't care less about that.

Really, all this has been about, is just the new mentality of the playerbase finally feeling that Blizzard should be responsible for making sure those that put in the work, maximize their performance, and earn hard-to-complete feats in the game, never have anything that they can't have for practically free, with no effort whatsoever. Proof of that? Look how we now have gradual nerfs over normal and heroic modes, giving those same players access to not the content, but the GEAR that comes from clearing that content. They already got to kill all of the bosses, they have the aesthetic look of all of the weapons and tier that comes with LFR, why do they need to clear through harder content made easier, thus negating the point of 3 difficulty levels? It's no longer harder, so you mighta as well have just stuck to the freebie mode.

But why do they want to clear it so bad? It's not about the lore, and it's not about the progression. It's about the loot

Since I don't play in a raiding guild, I'll just say that you're wrong. Without LFR I'd never see DS.

[Seasqwaa]

I loved the other thread yesterday where people were raging at how they can't collect a free Naxx achievement black proto drake, while in the final tier of the next expansions gear. Hilarious how far the playerbase has fallen in this game.

Part of the playerbase has ALWAYS been like that.
It didn't come just now.
People have been complaining forever. They're still a vocal minority though.
I've been playing since vanilla, and the community on my server is pretty much.... exactly the same as it was back then.
It's what you pay attention to or disregard; that's what makes it seem like a change.

[BatteredSausage]

Whether Blizzard intended it or not, to the vast majority of the playerbase, LFR has always been about being a big juicy loot piñata for them to whack at once a week. Proof of this statement you ask? Imagine if the gear it dropped was below Heroic dungeon level gear ilvl, or if it didn't drop loot at all? Who would be in there just to gear up for heroics or for the lore experience of seeing the end-boss go down? Most of the players that clamor for this type of crap saying couldn't care less about that.

Really, all this has been about, is just the new mentality of the playerbase finally feeling that Blizzard should be responsible for making sure those that put in the work, maximize their performance, and earn hard-to-complete feats in the game, never have anything that they can't have for practically free, with no effort whatsoever. Proof of that? Look how we now have gradual nerfs over normal and heroic modes, giving those same players access to not the content, but the GEAR that comes from clearing that content. They already got to kill all of the bosses, they have the aesthetic look of all of the weapons and tier that comes with LFR, why do they need to clear through harder content made easier, thus negating the point of 3 difficulty levels? It's no longer harder, so you mighta as well have just stuck to the freebie mode.

But why do they want to clear it so bad? It's not about the lore, and it's not about the progression. It's about the loot

Every Arena season Blizzard awards the rank 1 teams with a special non-expiring Gladiator title. They get to have these titles, and the rest of us never have access to it, and it's just not fair. After a season is over, why don't they nerf the requirement to get say, "Vicious Gladiator" since it's no longer current? I propose they allow everyone who can get at least 2000 to have the previous seasons Gladiator Title, and getting to 1800 will let you have all of the older Glad titles. This would be great for me, because I like to RP and it really sucks that I can't have that title just because I'm not a hardcore PvPer, and given how much dedication and skill it takes to get rank 1, I will likely never have a shot at getting it. It's only fair that when the title becomes old, that others can have a chance at getting it, and it's not like it'll be free, you'd still need to do arena to get it!

We also don't want PvPers resting on their laurels, being content with their old accomplishments and not pushing through in the latest season. I know this is going to cause a lot of QQ, but really why is Blizzard developing titles that only 5-8 people on every battlegroup can attain!? If these PvPers want to keep feeling like a 'special snowflake' with their fancy title, then they can go into the current season and do it again, so they can go and e-peen by the AH about how cool they think they are.

Why should some guy get to sit around wearing a 2year old title that doesn't mean anything anymore? If he really cares that much, there's always a timestamp on the achievement anyway! He shouldn't care what other people are wearing anyway. If you're the kind of person who gets mad because other people in a game have the same thing that you have, then you really need to re-evaluate your priorities in life. Who cares if you were rank 1 two seasons ago and people now have the same title as you? If you're really that good, you should be getting the latest title anyway.

and then there is this thread....http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...9#post15164229

Whether its ach's titles mounts gear etc its all the same 'reward'
Not sure what your getting at OP i just think your a confused soul that likes to contradict himself on forums trying to start some sort of flamwar between 2 groups of people.

[Deleted]

LFR from a perspective of a casual player

It is about seeing stuff, new raid... If there were no LFR I would never step up in DS raid... and getting a piece or two of some new gear is sweet too - I really don't see why ppl are whining about it since normal DS gear is way better than LFR and you get achievements, titles and whatnot.

I raided whole TBC and I simply don't want to put that much time and effort into raiding, I'm a big casual now and enjoy a few heroics/bg's runs with my RL mates and simply don't understand why there are some ppl that are so oppossed at me getting shitty gear?