[MoP Balance] MoP Balance Discussion Thread

[kendro1200]

Someone explain why this is good? Astral Communion while moving seems pointless for PvP, if anything it's something I'd do before engaging in battle, and I'd much prefer a 4 set that provides an incentive while in combat. I never really liked the "crit = energy" thing, either.

Because balance druid damage spikes up when they enter eclipse, and being able to control exactly when you go into eclipse is super helpful for applying pressure in a pvp setting. Imagine you're in a 3v3 team with another dps and a healer, as it currently stands you basically have to wait for the druid to start an eclipse in order to even begin considering making a target call and even then, you have a very short window to make a target call. Now you can plan a target call, the druid can be ready for it in 4 seconds max, and get into position while getting prep'ed. If the druid needs to try to keep pressure up a bit longer than the length of one eclipse, they can do a four second rests between and get back into eclipse, such as starting in solar, then when solar ends AC to lunar and pop starfall. Maybe toss in a cyclone or solar beam somewhere in there to slow heals down.

Granted AC on the move isn't a strong button, but it's something that is needed kinda button. A button that many raiding moonkin would actually love to have, so we don't lose eclipsed dots in order to use our "movement dps mechanic".

[Rodpad]

Oh thank god they took out Fae Empowerment!

If this is the final pass then I'm actually really happy (on paper) with how we've ended up overall.

[Deleted]

How to apply sunfire with this changes??

Celestial Alignment - In addition, casting Moonfire also applies the the periodic damage effect of Sunfire to your target.
Eclipse effect for Solar Eclipse no longer transforms your Moonfire spell into Sunfire, and causing Wrath and Starsurge damage to refresh Sunfire's duration. Lunar Eclipse effect no longer causes Starfire and Starsurge damage to refresh Moonfire's duration.

Do we get a 2nd dot back or is sunfire only able to be cast while Celestial Alignment is up?

[artem123]

How to apply sunfire with this changes??

Do we get a 2nd dot back or is sunfire only able to be cast while Celestial Alignment is up?

Im curious about this portion also. guess we might have to wait

[Sinzaram]

How to apply sunfire with this changes??

Do we get a 2nd dot back or is sunfire only able to be cast while Celestial Alignment is up?

Celestial Alignment sounds like a rewording, so its clear you only get one direct damage, but two damage over time effects.
Presumably to prevent double sun/moonfire spam damage.

I don't know but its my guess.

[Venteus]

Oh god, I hope it's a second dot permanently...

[Rodpad]

Perhaps we might get Sunfire to use whenever we like, thus replacing Insect Swarm maybe and making us juggle refreshing (due to the unpredictability of Wrath and Starfire crits extending their respecting dot), rather than the current model of refreshing Moonfire straight after Insect Swarm due to the same durations.

I believe Celestial Alignment is a nerf intended for PvP, since combined with Lunar Shower it would be far too lethal while on the move (double direct dot damage x 3 stacks x spam spam spam)

[artem123]

Perhaps we might get Sunfire to use whenever we like, thus replacing Insect Swarm maybe and making us juggle refreshing (due to the unpredictability of Wrath and Starfire crits extending their respecting dot), rather than the current model of refreshing Moonfire straight after Insect Swarm due to the same durations.

I believe Celestial Alignment is a nerf intended for PvP, since combined with Lunar Shower it would be far too lethal while on the move (double direct dot damage x 3 stacks x spam spam spam)

cause we needed a nerf when were on the move. cause we already can do SO! much dmg while were moving.

[Rodpad]

We have an abundance of new helpful ways to keep melee away from clobbering us in MoP if you're talking PvP.

We've always wanted more utility, not damage. You saw how badly overpowered Sunfire spam was before Lunar Shower was nerfed (broken Sunfire rotation anyone?).

The other alternative is to screw over Moonfire and Sunfire's initial damage, which will impede stationary and multi-dot DPS to a degree.

The PvP 4-Set will also allow us to run behind cover whilst casting Astral Communion at the same time to get us into an Eclipse of our choosing.

On the PvE side of things we're already one of the best classes for movement DPS on multi target fights.

I'm not sure what else you want. There's no ranged class that can spam literally a single button forever on the move to kill someone, and neither should there be.

[artem123]

I'm not sure what else you want. There's no ranged class that can spam literally a single button continuously on the move to kill someone, and neither should there be.

Mages say hello to you.
Ice lance, Even after nerf due to fact it can still do silly dmg.
Also fire mages, you could scorch spam and then youd either kill em, Or pyro procs and you'd kill em.
Almost the same way as moonfire spam, except hope a starsurge procs.

[huth]

Ice Lance only deals worthwile damage against Frozen targets and usually causes them to become unfrozen while doing so. Scorch does significantly less damage than Fireball.
Both require other buttons to do what you're proposing, as does your Balance suggestion.

The quote isn't about being able to spam a spell or kill somebody while moving, but about killing somebody while moving by spamming a single spell. Not the same thing.

I agree, fae empowerment felt more like something forced rather than a fluid part of the rotation. If they want to add complexity back, I say bring back insect swarm.

Actually, it seems that they decided to use Astral Communion for that. It now grants 100 energy in 4 seconds, allowing us to completely swap our Eclipse in 8 if we for some reason need to, so we can adjust our current Eclipse state quite quickly even when a fight interruption leaves us with nothing to hit. Since they've decided to intentionally design Solar to be better at AE and Lunar for single target, that might offer interesting options.
Incidentally, it also makes for a nice mana regen tool.

[Rodpad]

Mages say hello to you.
Ice lance, Even after nerf due to fact it can still do silly dmg.
Also fire mages, you could scorch spam and then youd either kill em, Or pyro procs and you'd kill em.
Almost the same way as moonfire spam, except hope a starsurge procs.

Ice Lance requires targets to be frozen to do optimal damage. Being frozen lasts a finite amount of time, or is broken via CC breakers.
Scorch doesn't ramp up like Lunar Shower does, plus adding Pyro is not one button.

You didn't even need Starsurge procs before they nerfed Sunfire and Shooting Stars. We don't want to get into that mess again.

[artem123]

Actually, it seems that they decided to use Astral Communion for that. It now grants 100 energy in 4 seconds, allowing us to completely swap our Eclipse in 8 if we for some reason need to, so we can adjust our current Eclipse state quite quickly even when a fight interruption leaves us with nothing to hit. Since they've decided to intentionally design Solar to be better at AE and Lunar for single target, that might offer interesting options.
Incidentally, it also makes for a nice mana regen tool.

Ugh that means there'll be OH BOOMIES DONT GO OOM AND THEY HEAL SO MUCH WHAT THE HELL BLIZZ.
anyway thats sorta true about the other parts i guess.

[Exoblade]

67% nerf to mushrooms just makes me die a little inside...

[Venteus]

67% nerf to mushrooms just makes me die a little inside...

I think it's a typo, bloom is the healing version, detonate is the damaging one.

[kendro1200]

I think it's a typo, bloom is the healing version, detonate is the damaging one.

^this
There are a handful of typos in this build, for instance the drain soul tooltip is missing the double damage portion thingy under 20% (blue confirmed the tooltip error).

[Exoblade]

I think it's a typo, bloom is the healing version, detonate is the damaging one.

Ok if thats the case then i might actually continue my boomkin as my main.

[Juvencus]

Not sure how this'll fare in PvP, once again we've lost some of the proc chance on instant SS, but dot damage has gone up substantially. It definitely seems they want us casting more this expansion as opposed to hopping around waiting for procs.

We didn't really lose any SS uptime, since now we have both Moonfire and Sunfire available which are both able to run simultaneously on target but obviously each benefit from each eclipse separately.

[Venteus]

We didn't really lose any SS uptime, since now we have both Moonfire and Sunfire available which are both able to run simultaneously on target but obviously each benefit from each eclipse separately.

Has this finally been confirmed? We'll have access to both dots at all time?

[huth]

I don't even get a download for the next build yet.