Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[Paranoid Android]

They can do more damage, you are more likely to die driving to work, from cancer, or be the victim of malpractice.

If knowing vs not-knowing makes you act any differently than I don't know(if they are armed).

Can't compare apples to oranges. More people drive to work, run greater risk of cancer the heredity, diet, environment, etc. and go to the doctor than carry guns. So again gun advocate you give more guns out they will rise. Now I'll admit they would probably never get to same deaths as say auto accidents but people who carry more guns will inflict more damage.

[Xuvial]

Black adolescent walking harmlessly down the street?

SHOOT HIM IN SELF DEFENSE.

^ Someone please make that into a meme pic.

[Deleted]

I wish people would stop calling Zimmerman a Neighbourhood Watch Captain, especially with caps. He's not in charge of anyone else, so he's not a captain. He's not a registered Neighbourhood Watch person at all. His was a totally unofficial role, that he took up because the residents association wanted someone to do some sort of anti-crime patrol and he was the only one who volunteered.

[Primaliron]

Yes but I think in this day and age people shouldn't behave in such a way. It's a disgrace. I even find the fact that you call people "African Americans" strange tbh, aren't they just Americans? Although in Ireland we don't have very many first or second generation Irish born to parents from Africa, India, China, wherever, the number is growing and we wouldn't call them "African Irish" or "Chinese Irish". Seems odd to me.

And while I do appriciate the history is a touch subject, Ireland has some pretty bad history with England. You know cause they invaded our country, took our land, food, language and rights, these days there's basically no racism whatso ever against the English. Sure the queen came to visit last year. Ofc there is still some, and we still have issues with the IRA, but it's nothing compaired to America.

It really baffles me how racism can still be such a big issue, and how gun crime is such a big issue, when you're such an advanced country in other ways. Things like what happened to this child shouldn't happen.

America is a large place, and with many different subcultures. African-Americans have been effectively a separate subculture since they were brought here on slave ships (ironically people who came here as non-slaves from Africa are not generally called African-Americans). Due to violence and general oppressive political tactics they formed a mostly separate society. It has really only been 50 years since integration began and it is still a work in progress. By contrast my Cherokee ancestors have been integrating since early on. Unfortunately most Cherokee living traditionally suffered greatly (ie Trail of Tears) but there was a path by which they could assimilate into American culture. African-Americans did not have that until relatively recently.

Even amongst white people there are lots of major cultural differences though. I live in Florida today, but I am from the Midwest and it's like living in a different country. My mother is from the Carolinas which despite proximity is still different from here. In both the Carolinas and Florida African-Americans live separately from whites to a much larger degree than they do back home. Here in Florida the local "Crackers" (I had no idea there were people who self-identified with that term until I lived here) tend to self-segregate from northerners who move here. The northerners often do the same. heck I don't even understand the New Yorkers who live here. They are extremely strange to me, in fact I felt more at home in Scotland than New York.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there are a lot of folks here from different backgrounds. Some have historically had greater opportunity to integrate into the larger shared culture, and even amongst those some choose not to. The term American is really more like saying European. Ireland is slightly less than half the size of Florida for instance. And being populated by mainly by immigrants within the last 500 years (and continuing immigration from other states), they haven't even got a unified culture here.

I hope that sheds a little light on the scope of American culture.

[braeldiil]

Really?

Because that is some huge assumptions on your part, regarding what the cops have decided.

The country, state, and feds have opened investigations soley because of the cry of racism. That is it.

And as for the girl, the phone shut off before there was even any fight. How did she 'hear her friend get killed'?

I get it, you hate the police. I mean, you could try to look at the facts in the story instead of reading all the what-ifs and bullshit that everyone is spouting.

Edit: Also, why was this 'kind and loving boy' suspended from school for 10 days, and why did his mother force him to go live with his father for that time? His father had no custodial rights.

I've provided links, in this thread, for everything I said. I have been following the facts. You might try doing the same.

Even ignoring everything else, the cops have to explain how the 911 calls (released by the cops, mind you) match up with Zimmerman's story (he got out of his car to look at a street sign and was jumped from behind). That's the story they uncritically believe.

I'm glad you admit he was talking to the girl (I guess you had to, since we have the phone records an all). Please explain how the police missed that he was talking to her. And she certainly heard the start of the confrontation that left her friend dead - he was probably dead within a minute or two of her losing the connection. Considering how shook up I was when a guy I was working with died pretty suddenly, I'm not going to judge her response.

He was suspended from school for ttardiness. Most school systems have an automatic suspension after you've been late to enough classes. My school's was five days, but that was a different state and decades ago. He has no violent incidents in his record, per the school system. Why was he with his dad? Maybe mom had to work late. Maybe mom thought dad could "encourage" him not to be tardy anymore. Maybe dad just wanted some time with his kid. Who knows, and really, who besides you cares?

[Ausr]

Lemme guess, the only reason why this is getting national attention is because the kid was black and the neighborhood watch commander (come on now. Really, commander?) is a white guy.

I'm saying this before I even read about this, that's how I can tell this is only getting exposure from when I first heard about it on the radio this morning and said the exact same thing I'm typing now.

Well, least Kony died out. Now we have to listen to this.

[Deleted]

Lemme guess, the only reason why this is getting national attention is because the kid was black and the neighborhood watch commander (come on now. Really, commander?) is a white guy.

I'm sure if you scoured the news you could find lots of stories about adults shooting unarmed teenagers and making dubious claims about self-defence. Or maybe not?

[Silentpariah]

the wonderful thing is a hispanic man shot a black teenager and its till whiteys fault for being a buncha racists YAAAAAAY always on the hook no matter what

[braeldiil]

the wonderful thing is a hispanic man shot a black teenager and its till whiteys fault for being a buncha racists YAAAAAAY always on the hook no matter what

Glad to see that you, like Sheriff Lee, are the real victims here.

[Deleted]

the wonderful thing is a hispanic man shot a black teenager and its till whiteys fault for being a buncha racists YAAAAAAY always on the hook no matter what

its the context, the murderer called the police before approaching the child and told them that there was a "criminal" in the area and he was going to stop him, his own world views made him see the kid as a criminal, because he was black, had it been a white kid walking down the street eating candy, he wouldnt have even approached him, thats why its racist,
these things need to be looked at on a case by case thing, if a white guy kills a black guy, it doesnt automatically mean that it was racially motivated, but if there is evidence that it was , in my eyes it makes the crime worse, its one thing to shoot a black guy that calls your mom a whore, its another to shoot him just because of the color of his skin

[ati87]

Lemme guess, the only reason why this is getting national attention is because the kid was black and the neighborhood watch commander (come on now. Really, commander?) is a white guy.

I'm saying this before I even read about this, that's how I can tell this is only getting exposure from when I first heard about it on the radio this morning and said the exact same thing I'm typing now.

Well, least Kony died out. Now we have to listen to this.

It wouldn't get half as much attention if the killer actually got arrested

[Elbruho]

Only in amerika can something like this happen.. That country is filled up with morons and racists with guns (yeah bring the hate to me now)... This just makes me so fucking sad that something like this can happen.. and I've just read that some douchebag is now trying to make Trayvon the bad guy, calling him a dangerous criminal.. WTF IS THAT!!? CMON

<Infracted>

[Todgruppe]

Only in amerika can something like this happen.. That country is filled up with morons and racists with guns (yeah bring the hate to me now)... This just makes me so fucking sad that something like this can happen.. and I've just read that some douchebag is now trying to make Trayvon the bad guy, calling him a dangerous criminal.. WTF IS THAT!!? CMON

el oh el, most racist people I have encountered where British. Well a lot of Europe's way of dealing with immigration could be perceived, but shhh don't talk about it. Only America can be racist.....

[Isotope]

A few things people seem to forget:

1. The police that questioned everybody at the scene that talked to them and they all gave the same story that Zimmerman gave. So when you have 5+ people giving a story of self defense and the person claiming it busted up, what are you going to think?

2. The people CHANGED their stories after they found out that it was a black teenager and who they thought was a white male. The police came right out and said that the interviews these people gave DO NOT match what they gave police. If you have ever been a witness to anything you know that you write down or they write down but you MUST sign your name to it.

3. If you're claiming that he was suspended for tardiness please provide a link. Every article I read the family refused to comment on his 10 day suspension.

4. Police can't just go through your things even if your dead. Yes they can look at your wallet because it is on your person but they can't go through your phone and other things. This is why they didn't just open his phone and call that girl and say "hey whose phone is this?" After they got the phone records request and everything that's when this girl came public with her "story."


That's why a lot of people raise doubt about this. I mean really who do you believe. A police officer who took peoples statements that night when they didn't know that it was a Hispanic man shooting a black teen, or the people who changed their stories and are screaming this is racism?

It's a sad story but in the end you have to look at facts, and the facts are he DIDN'T break the law. At the end of the day the laws of Florida are worth more than OUR OWN set of moral laws that WE think everybody should live by.

[braeldiil]

A few things people seem to forget:

1. The police that questioned everybody at the scene that talked to them and they all gave the same story that Zimmerman gave. So when you have 5+ people giving a story of self defense and the person claiming it busted up, what are you going to think?

2. The people CHANGED their stories after they found out that it was a black teenager and who they thought was a white male. The police came right out and said that the interviews these people gave DO NOT match what they gave police. If you have ever been a witness to anything you know that you write down or they write down but you MUST sign your name to it.

3. If you're claiming that he was suspended for tardiness please provide a link. Every article I read the family refused to comment on his 10 day suspension.

4. Police can't just go through your things even if your dead. Yes they can look at your wallet because it is on your person but they can't go through your phone and other things. This is why they didn't just open his phone and call that girl and say "hey whose phone is this?" After they got the phone records request and everything that's when this girl came public with her "story."


That's why a lot of people raise doubt about this. I mean really who do you believe. A police officer who took peoples statements that night when they didn't know that it was a Hispanic man shooting a black teen, or the people who changed their stories and are screaming this is racism?

It's a sad story but in the end you have to look at facts, and the facts are he DIDN'T break the law. At the end of the day the laws of Florida are worth more than OUR OWN set of moral laws that WE think everybody should live by.

1/2) I'm amused that you're willing to believe that all the witnesses are racists who changed their stories to screw the white man, but you're completely unable to conceive that the cops are covering their asses because they couldn't be bothered to investigate the case.

Remember, the story the police uncritically bought and defended was that Zimmerman got out of his car to look at a street sign and was jumped from behind. That's the story that all the witness statements supposedly matched.

I'm also amused that, since you love cops so much, that you're ignoring the cop who reported the narcotics detective who did the initial investigation appeared to be leading Zimmerman through his questioning.

So, to sum up: We have a fairy tale from the shooter. 2 of the 6 eyewitnesses have repeatedly stated that the cops did a cursory investigation, no follow up, and have repeatedly twisted their statements. We have a cop saying the questioning of Zimmerman was fishy. And all of this is, in your mind, a plot to screw the white man. By two white women and a cop.

3) I googled "Trayvon Martin tardy" and this was the first link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...837,full.story

In that link, his English teacher states, on the record, that the suspension was for being late. It was also a 5 day suspension, not 10. From the article:

Trayvon was under a five-day suspension when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior.

"Trayvon was not a violent or dangerous child. He was not known for misbehaving," the teacher said. "He was suspended because he was late too many times."

4) The police had every (legal) right to search his phone. It's actually a civil liberties point, because as soon as they take you into custody they can search your phone - no warrent or official arrest required. In fact, they probably had a duty to search his phone to try and identify him and notify his next of kin. Much more importantly, they never requested his phone records. ABC news did that. If we had waited for the Sanford police, they never would have found the young lady he was talking to.

And again, I'm struck by the fact that you would accuse a young lady of lying about talking to him and/or creating a story about the attack, but you can't possibly conceive the notion that the cops failed to investigate this obvious lead. In fact, the negligence of the police department becomes evidence against the girl., at least in your mind.

At the end of the day, Zimmerman will probably walk. Part of it is the insane Florida law that states you can start a fight and then claim self defense when you kill the person you attacked, but part of it is that the police department screwed up the investigation.

But hey, you and Sherriff Lee are the real victims here.

[Purlina]

A few things people seem to forget:

1. The police that questioned everybody at the scene that talked to them and they all gave the same story that Zimmerman gave.So when you have 5+ people giving a story of self defense and the person claiming it busted up, what are you going to think?

Ummm are you sure? Citation?

[Failhance]

A few things people seem to forget:

1. The police that questioned everybody at the scene that talked to them and they all gave the same story that Zimmerman gave. So when you have 5+ people giving a story of self defense and the person claiming it busted up, what are you going to think?

Really? The exact same story eh? Even though that all physical evidence proves otherwise.... your full of #$#%

2. The people CHANGED their stories after they found out that it was a black teenager and who they thought was a white male. The police came right out and said that the interviews these people gave DO NOT match what they gave police. If you have ever been a witness to anything you know that you write down or they write down but you MUST sign your name to it.

Oh yea, because miraculously everyone changed there story only after they found out he was black....... again your full of $#%#

3. If you're claiming that he was suspended for tardiness please provide a link. Every article I read the family refused to comment on his 10 day suspension.

Irrelevant. Now your just arguing for the sake of arguing. more bull$^#@

4. Police can't just go through your things even if your dead. Yes they can look at your wallet because it is on your person but they can't go through your phone and other things. This is why they didn't just open his phone and call that girl and say "hey whose phone is this?" After they got the phone records request and everything that's when this girl came public with her "story."

What planet do you live on? A child is murdered and you don't think that warrant's a complete and thorough investigation? Your honestly going to try and tube feed absolute garbage about proper procedure on a possible murder investigation? Another load of bull$#%#

That's why a lot of people raise doubt about this. I mean really who do you believe. A police officer who took peoples statements that night when they didn't know that it was a Hispanic man shooting a black teen, or the people who changed their stories and are screaming this is racism?

It's a sad story but in the end you have to look at facts, and the facts are he DIDN'T break the law. At the end of the day the laws of Florida are worth more than OUR OWN set of moral laws that WE think everybody should live by.

Besides your obvious insanity, you honestly expect people to believe that there is no fault the police completely botched this investigation? Even when ANOTHER police officer reported that the initial questioning was bizarre enough he felt the need to report it to the general media? There's so many bull$#%@ assumptions in this post that I honestly am starting to suspect you must have some direct ties with Zimmerman himself. I hope there's a special place in hell for people like you

Infracted: play nice

[Isotope]

1/2) I'm amused that you're willing to believe that all the witnesses are racists who changed their stories to screw the white man, but you're completely unable to conceive that the cops are covering their asses because they couldn't be bothered to investigate the case.

Remember, the story the police uncritically bought and defended was that Zimmerman got out of his car to look at a street sign and was jumped from behind. That's the story that all the witness statements supposedly matched.

I'm also amused that, since you love cops so much, that you're ignoring the cop who reported the narcotics detective who did the initial investigation appeared to be leading Zimmerman through his questioning.

So, to sum up: We have a fairy tale from the shooter. 2 of the 6 eyewitnesses have repeatedly stated that the cops did a cursory investigation, no follow up, and have repeatedly twisted their statements. We have a cop saying the questioning of Zimmerman was fishy. And all of this is, in your mind, a plot to screw the white man. By two white women and a cop.

So never in your life have you seen people jump on the racism bandwagon and change their story because of race? See the Duke Lacross case and all the African American leaders that came out and defended her and claimed racism even though her story didn't match with what happen. So yes people do change their stories and stances on things just because of the race of a accuser/victim.

And again, I'm struck by the fact that you would accuse a young lady of lying about talking to him and/or creating a story about the attack, but you can't possibly conceive the notion that the cops failed to investigate this obvious lead. In fact, the negligence of the police department becomes evidence against the girl., at least in your mind.

I never once said that she wasn't on the phone with him. I simply said that the whole conversation they had seems suspect. I mean ask yourself this question. If you were on the phone with somebody who was murdered as everybody claims. Would you wait a month to come forward with what you two talked about and come forward through the attorney of the "murdered" boys family? Personally I would be at the police station ASAP talking about what happened.

Ummm are you sure? Citation?

The Police Chief came right out and said what the people are telling media isn't what they told the police on the night of the shooting at all.

Really? The exact same story eh? Even though that all physical evidence proves otherwise.... your full of #$#%

So a person getting shot in the chest means they were facing them. You have Zimmerman with a busted face and the back of his head is bleeding. So what physical evidence do you have that isn't out there.

What planet do you live on? A child is murdered and you don't think that warrant's a complete and thorough investigation? Your honestly going to try and tube feed absolute garbage about proper procedure on a possible murder investigation?

Guess what you need a warrant to search things even if the person is dead. You still have to subpoena phone records even if a person is dead. Just because a person is dead doesn't mean that the police are allowed to go through all their things. If they did and didn't get a warrant for it during evidentiary hearings the defense could raise that as a motion that was obtained with out a warrant and a judge could through that out. If that's how you think the judicial system should work then write to your local people and get them to change the laws.

Besides your obvious insanity, you honestly expect people to believe that there is no fault the police completely botched this investigation?

Where in any of my posts did I say that the police did a 100% perfect job? I simply point out facts and don't have emotion behind them. Do I think the guy did something wrong, of course. However is he guilty of a crime....not according to Florida law. It doesn't matter what you think the law is. The police followed what they have to do by the law. For that you can't be upset he isn't in jail.

Take the emotions out of it and look at the law and facts and you see why he is free. There is no online poll or petition that will arrest him. Make the online poll and petition to change the law so that the NEXT time, cause there will be one, this happens there can be an arrest.

[Jodah]

Not sure if this has been posted yet. If so feel free to ignore.

Response from the police on the whole thing: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...n_shooting.pdf

[Deleted]

Not sure if this has been posted yet. If so feel free to ignore.

Response from the police on the whole thing: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...n_shooting.pdf

If the police were really prohibited by law from arresting Zimmerman and treating him as a murder suspect based on the initial witness testimony, the law is weird.
And the law certainly shouldn't have prevented them conducting basic detective and forensic work. And it doesn't address any of the complaints of badgering and ignoring witnesses, poor questioning of Zimmerman, the inconsistent story of how he was attacked, the phonecall to Martin's girlfriend.