[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

I'm genuinely not sure how Liquid justifies constantly 1st-picking Invoker for FATA in what seems like every game. It has to be because they don't want to spend a ban on it; he simply has zero game impact on the hero compared to actual good Invoker players.

With regards to EG I really wish PPD would do a draft vlog of some sort because I need to know exactly what was going through his head when he 4th-picked Sven into an NP with absolutely no other damage on the team. It was almost as nuts as picking a Zeus into an absurdly greedy draft so Liquid could just dive him with impunity.

I honestly think EG massively overvalues the Enigma - not only do they tend to spend 2-3 bans just to make sure their Enigma can actually have game impact, but it also means that Sumail has to lane with basically zero help. It just doesn't seem like it's worth it against the top teams to me.

[Sarevokcz]

then they should draft sumail something more selfsufficient, not, as Lysah said, basically support heroes that lose impact after the 30 minute mark, pocket strat with nyx mid once is nice and all, but sumail just doesnt have the impact with this kind of heroes and they dont execute the 4 protect 1 that well, with sven no less...

[PizzaSHARK]

I'm genuinely not sure how Liquid justifies constantly 1st-picking Invoker for FATA in what seems like every game. It has to be because they don't want to spend a ban on it; he simply has zero game impact on the hero compared to actual good Invoker players.

With regards to EG I really wish PPD would do a draft vlog of some sort because I need to know exactly what was going through his head when he 4th-picked Sven into an NP with absolutely no other damage on the team. It was almost as nuts as picking a Zeus into an absurdly greedy draft so Liquid could just dive him with impunity.

I honestly think EG massively overvalues the Enigma - not only do they tend to spend 2-3 bans just to make sure their Enigma can actually have game impact, but it also means that Sumail has to lane with basically zero help. It just doesn't seem like it's worth it against the top teams to me.

I was frankly amazed at how many times Silencer wasn't picked considering how popular Enigma was, and how hard Silencer shuts him down. If Silencer has Global Silence, and isn't caught in the Black Hole, you simply do not get to ever use Black Hole.

[Roshar]

w33 and pld were fucking beasts in the grand finals.

[Lysah]

I was frankly amazed at how many times Silencer wasn't picked considering how popular Enigma was, and how hard Silencer shuts him down. If Silencer has Global Silence, and isn't caught in the Black Hole, you simply do not get to ever use Black Hole.

Problem with that is that you're basically using a hero pick just because of Enigma, Silencer isn't that good otherwise, and Enigma can farm and Silencer can't, which means you lose out on that trade. Enigma will farm a mek and Silencer will be crying in the back with brown boots. A carry Silencer might work but you would really have to set that up properly.

[Deleted]

What Lysah said, basically. Silencer is a "trap" counter to Enigma in the sense that in the current meta, Enigma isn't actually picked for Black Hole at all - it's just a neat bonus that he has it. You pick him primarily for his guaranteed 8-minute Mek, for Eidolon push power, and to some extent for Midnight Pulse. He's like a greedier Chen, but the overall idea with the hero is much the same. If anything, I found it more surprising that BH and Riki weren't really picked to fuck with Enigma's jungle, but to some extent I guess that's because with the new jungle layouts doing so is incredibly difficult.

If Enigma were picked for Black Hole (in the sense that it would logically follow that people placed a large premium on AoE, BKB-piercing lockdown) you'd be seeing a lot more Magnus in this meta, but that hero basically isn't picked at all despite the offlane being a complete joke and Magnus being guaranteed a 15-minute Arcanes Blink so long as he gets Iron Talon.

[Drunkenvalley]

If you're firstpicking in a game, what do you pick? I'm curious how people view the pickstage overall in allpick.

[Kralljin]

If you're firstpicking in a game, what do you pick? I'm curious how people view the pickstage overall in allpick.

Usually i go for some foolproof heroes like Ogre Magi, Abaddon or something like that.

I avoid Heroes with obvious counter picks, if you pick Phoenix, the enemy Support will insta lock Silencer.

Similiar thing goes for Enchantress, if you first pick Enchantress, people pick Ursa + Veno / Tusk and you're officially fucked on Offlane.

Aside from that, the first pick phase is usually dominated with people fighting over Mid / Pos 1.

[Drunkenvalley]

Yeah, I was just curious, because I can't seem to have a game of Dota 2 without this shitfest of 4 people hovering Abaddon because they don't even want to show what hero they want to play. So just thought I'd hear how people deal with those situations, because you already hate your team at that point.

[Deleted]

Oh man I love ability draft. Play more of it god damn it! And enable more heroes in it with, even with alterrations (Invoker, Rubick)

[StrawberryZebra]

Yeah, I was just curious, because I can't seem to have a game of Dota 2 without this shitfest of 4 people hovering Abaddon because they don't even want to show what hero they want to play. So just thought I'd hear how people deal with those situations, because you already hate your team at that point.

Picking in Dota is something thats bothered me for a while now. Its not that the system is bad as such, just that it could be so much better. Even hiding the other teams picks from you would stop everyone waiting around for the last second in the hopes of counterpicking the other team, and is something that could be fixed quickly with the addition of nothing more than a black square covering it up. At the very least it gives you a fighting chance of getting a workable team comp without worrying about anything else.

When it happens to me I just usually pick whatever the hell I feel like and let everyone else sort themselves out however they like. There isn't really much else you can do.

Oh man I love ability draft. Play more of it god damn it! And enable more heroes in it with, even with alterrations (Invoker, Rubick)

The problem isn't with Invoker and Rubick as such, its what happens when the ability pool contains their abilities. Spell Steal isn't worth much without anything to steal, and you need all of Invokers abilities to make anything work out. If you had to alter them just to fit that game mode you're going to end up with something that isn't Invoker anyway, its easier just to remove them at that point rather than have two completely different versions of the same Hero just to accomodate one game mode.

[Longview]

If you're firstpicking in a game, what do you pick? I'm curious how people view the pickstage overall in allpick.

random first

every single game

[Sarevokcz]

Picking in Dota is something thats bothered me for a while now. Its not that the system is bad as such, just that it could be so much better. Even hiding the other teams picks from you would stop everyone waiting around for the last second in the hopes of counterpicking the other team, and is something that could be fixed quickly with the addition of nothing more than a black square covering it up. At the very least it gives you a fighting chance of getting a workable team comp without worrying about anything else.

yeah? and how do you work around the fact, that picked heroes arent available anymore? you dont gray them out and when someone pick him, it just gives him "already picked, chose another one" window? That still would have some level of info available. I suppose you could make a new "blind pick" mode, where that happens but stay with BS like that away from the modes we have, the QQ would be ridiculous, its bad enough you dont get enough supports, now you want them to pick one, that might be randomly useless against enemy team comp? no thanks

[StrawberryZebra]

I suppose the best solution would be to allow the same hero to be on both teams. The idea would be that you could build a team that would function with a specific goal and lane setup in mind, without having to rush everything together at the last second. If you do end up with one of your heroes getting counter picked, its just bad luck and nothing intentional.

I realise its far from a perfect system, but at the very least it would prevent everyone scrambling to pick in the last 5 seconds and hoping you get a workable team out of it.

[Deleted]

I tend to play a lot of hard 5, so if I have to first-pick I usually pick heroes that can play hard 5 in any lineup. Bane, WD, VS, etc. I'd love to be able to pick Lion or Ebola first, but both are greedy in their own way (Lion dual lanes get run over by aggro dual lanes if the core isn't a Gyro or similarly strong early core and ES needs to be able to roam), whereas it literally doesn't matter what your team picks if you pick Bane or WD.

[Lysah]

If we're talking about solo queue ranked AP, the picks should basically always be in reverse order of position. Your first hero should be some generic support that can't really be countered, VS WD ogre etc. Only exceptions to this I would make are when you want to instant lock in the broken hero of the patch like OSfrog Destroyer.

[Deleted]

Eh, OSfrog Destroyer is only really broken when paired with Omni and when nobody counterpicks him. The hero still just falls over to Nyx.

Don't get me wrong, he's strong and will probably get some minor nerfs, but he's no 6.83 Sniper or 6.84 Storm/Lesh.

[Kralljin]

I like to pick Brew to counter Omni, Brewling Dispel is so fucking strong vs. his Ult.

The Brew Dispel however seems not to work with Repel, which seems to be bugged.

[Lysah]

I don't think I have ever seen a Nyx beat an OD in this patch. He absolutely shits on OD in lane if he tries to lane against him, and by the time Nyx has the levels/items to 1v1 OD, OD will have a BKB already anyway.

Nyx USED to counter OD, back when OD would have 800 health at level 12 and would have just started leveling his Q to do decent right click. Now OD rushes str treads drums atos, he has 1600 health at level 12, and he is hitting for 400 damage Qs already while Nyx has 800 life. Nyx just doesn't have the damage to kill OD in one combo anymore, and after his stuns are over he's dead in two hits. Once OD's BKB is up Nyx is 100% useless.

I have a friend who keeps picking nyx into OD and we lose every single game because he can't ever actually kill him. Nyx is honestly such a bad hero if he can't farm a squishy support for gold. He does NOT perform well when playing from behind (see: sumail nyx mid)

[PizzaSHARK]

What Lysah said, basically. Silencer is a "trap" counter to Enigma in the sense that in the current meta, Enigma isn't actually picked for Black Hole at all - it's just a neat bonus that he has it. You pick him primarily for his guaranteed 8-minute Mek, for Eidolon push power, and to some extent for Midnight Pulse. He's like a greedier Chen, but the overall idea with the hero is much the same. If anything, I found it more surprising that BH and Riki weren't really picked to fuck with Enigma's jungle, but to some extent I guess that's because with the new jungle layouts doing so is incredibly difficult.

If Enigma were picked for Black Hole (in the sense that it would logically follow that people placed a large premium on AoE, BKB-piercing lockdown) you'd be seeing a lot more Magnus in this meta, but that hero basically isn't picked at all despite the offlane being a complete joke and Magnus being guaranteed a 15-minute Arcanes Blink so long as he gets Iron Talon.

Riki wasn't picked because he still sucks ass. He still needs some kind of regen bonus and a reason to put more than 1 point into his ultimate. Just giving him like +3 HP/sec base regen and changing his ulti to be 4/5/6 hits over the same 4 sec duration (so every 1 sec, every 0.80 sec, every 0.67 sec) would probably be enough to at least warrant picking him.

Eh, OSfrog Destroyer is only really broken when paired with Omni and when nobody counterpicks him. The hero still just falls over to Nyx.

Don't get me wrong, he's strong and will probably get some minor nerfs, but he's no 6.83 Sniper or 6.84 Storm/Lesh.

OD is ten different kinds of bullshit but isn't particularly OP, not at the pub level. Omni is OP at pretty much all levels of play, honestly. Cutting Purification time in half was a ridiculous buff.