[Megathread] DotA 2

[Charge me Doctor]

Ugh, no. I think people should just get into the game and learn it the intuitive way. And that'll be through playing versus people. The bots are grossly incompetent and won't take 100 games for someone to systematically pummel, I think.

As for what to play for heroes, I think a healthy mix is good. Playing fragile heroes like CM will hopefully teach you to not feed. Playing heroes like Spectre will teach you how to get good at last-hitting versus contesting lanes (especially with her low base damage). Playing heroes that farm well will teach you what shittons of gold will do you when you get it early. Etc.

Overall, I don't really care what hero you're playing as long as you're pushing your limit with it.

There is no need for new players to learn their heroes in intuitive way in games with other players. Zero. They can get familiar with hero in solo game. Bots are very competent, unless you make them incompetent via difficulty options. 100 games is enough games to get grip on 10-30 heroes, then you go and play with other players to get grip on the game itself.

Playing fragile heroes doesn't teach you how to not feed. Keeping your eyes on situation does. You can get good with last hitting vs bots, it's one of the mechanics where you don't need interaction with other players (even experienced players tend to miss last hits on uncontested lane, as long as you hit 6/6 on uncontested lane - you are good at last hitting, people smacking you on the head is next step at getting good, not the first one).

Learning the game in "intuitive" way works only with experienced players, new players are not experienced players. And even experienced players tend to not learn the game in "intuitive" way, they tend to do calculations on how they should play and where they can get benefit, so they don't end up in situations like "but TP scroll costs money i'll better walk by foot" or "i didn't buyback because i save it for Mystic staff"

[Sorcereria]

Damn, this Immortals are really bad/boring imo. Especially heroes -_^
AM double immortal please...

Got some SF for NS/rare III to trade when III releases.

God I fell asleep on mouse game. Dammit, doubt I will have such huge bet returns this Ti5 like last time with liquid giving me so much $$$.

[Drunkenvalley]

And quite frankly I disagree with you, Doc.

Playing CM won't teach you how to avoid feeding? Then you go on to literally state why playing CM will teach you not to feed, because it's one of the skills you'll just have to pick up if you decide to play CM. Good job.

And new players don't need to learn how to last-hit. The problem for new players isn't last-hitting. It is the fact that they won't approach the creeps at all. The fundamental problem for games at that stage is that people are terrified of absolutely everything. They'll barely touch the creeps because they think they'll die. Hell, most of the matches are won not because of farm, but because someone decided to right-click a different hero. And then they won, because the person realizes briefly that they're actually strong and can kill them.

Until the new players actually dare to do stuff the idea of being good at last-hitting is pretty moot.

And lol. "Learning intuitively only works with experienced players". Yeah, no, that's not how it works. Ultimately, if someone wants to learn the ropes they're going to have to do that outside of bot matches, because bot matches stop being useful very fast.

[Deleted]

I agree stacking is a huge risk in pubs below the top tier level, I would never stack if enemy team has cleave or Axe etc. But I'm not really talking about new players when I complain about nobody stacking in my pub games, 5k is supposed to be good according to Valve

People at TI get 5 man black holed, echo slammed and taunted - pubs have no chance,

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And quite frankly I disagree with you, Doc.

Playing CM won't teach you how to avoid feeding? Then you go on to literally state why playing CM will teach you not to feed, because it's one of the skills you'll just have to pick up if you decide to play CM. Good job.

And new players don't need to learn how to last-hit. The problem for new players isn't last-hitting. It is the fact that they won't approach the creeps at all. The fundamental problem for games at that stage is that people are terrified of absolutely everything. They'll barely touch the creeps because they think they'll die. Hell, most of the matches are won not because of farm, but because someone decided to right-click a different hero. And then they won, because the person realizes briefly that they're actually strong and can kill them.

Until the new players actually dare to do stuff the idea of being good at last-hitting is pretty moot.

And lol. "Learning intuitively only works with experienced players". Yeah, no, that's not how it works. Ultimately, if someone wants to learn the ropes they're going to have to do that outside of bot matches, because bot matches stop being useful very fast.

Your actually 100% right, i've taught 2 people how to play dota and the words i found myself saying most were "Don't stand so far back, you are useless there"

[Charge me Doctor]

People at TI get 5 man black holed, echo slammed and taunted - pubs have no chance,

People at TI get lagged and games are paused for 2 hours, hurp derp

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And quite frankly I disagree with you, Doc.

Playing CM won't teach you how to avoid feeding? Then you go on to literally state why playing CM will teach you not to feed, because it's one of the skills you'll just have to pick up if you decide to play CM. Good job.

And new players don't need to learn how to last-hit. The problem for new players isn't last-hitting. It is the fact that they won't approach the creeps at all. The fundamental problem for games at that stage is that people are terrified of absolutely everything. They'll barely touch the creeps because they think they'll die. Hell, most of the matches are won not because of farm, but because someone decided to right-click a different hero. And then they won, because the person realizes briefly that they're actually strong and can kill them.

Until the new players actually dare to do stuff the idea of being good at last-hitting is pretty moot.

And lol. "Learning intuitively only works with experienced players". Yeah, no, that's not how it works. Ultimately, if someone wants to learn the ropes they're going to have to do that outside of bot matches, because bot matches stop being useful very fast.

Playing anyone will teach you how to avoid feeding, even if you play AM it's quite hard to escape enemy if you have to clue what you are doing. Being 600 health level 7 support doesn't really help the issue, you end up with newbie supports hugging someone and losing whole map control "cuz i die in two hits".

Main thing to remember to avoid feeding - don't overextend, like, ever. It's better to let enemy run away with just 1 health than dive tower at level 4 and feed the enemy. Everything else comes to you while playing dota, not while playing specific hero/role.

Any player should learn how to last hit and faster he learns it - better for him. So many AFK farming cores even in mid-tier games who get about 3 last hits per uncontested wave. From my experience - new players are the ones who charge in combat first and die because "why creeps hit me all of the sudden?!". Most low-tier matches are won because of almost 15k gold lead, not because of players prioritizing someone.

Bot matches are always useful to get handle on controls (keybinds), simple mechanics (last hitting, creep equilibrium), timings. You don't want to pick Puck and suck on mid because you learn him "intuitively", you want at least to try him couple of times on bots to get the sharp idea of how this hero handles. And most important thing to practice in bot/single games after last hitting is how to connect pulled creeps. It's just super important, because its better to not pull at all if you think that you can fuck it up

[Sorcereria]

Than there is also an issue of people NOT knowing hero limits - both allies and enemy!
-too agressive plays
-dumb plays, going for a kill on a hero they or team CANT kill (ex. due to blink, evasion of some sort), while that CM runs away safely.
-too passive plays, scared to go for solo kills, scared to innitate or be front load hero (tide, WK/SK, bristle)

Worst part many players WILL NOT try to extend their limits even if you communicate.
God knows how often I see 2-3 people innitiate on AM/QoP without a single stun. They would probably succeed if they thought 3 times and positioned corectly to catch him after blink.

Than from my experience, some heroes early on, when you learn dota are just a no go. Now I can laugh that some heroes are not that hard to play or understand them but after 500hours into dota some heroes was being useless, stupid, worthless only due to my inability and understanding.

[Charge me Doctor]

I want to confess that i often missmanage my mana and blink into 5 people without being able to ult as CM.

Also back in times when i used to build helm of dominator on Zeus, i spew gems like "omg Pudge is useless if he misses the hook"

[Sorcereria]

Dota2lounge is off to maintanance, bots are offline, bots are busy...

There goes my bet on 4ASC vs Alliance (13% vs 87% ) - I guess I wont get a chance for a 600$ return...

[Deleted]

Holy shit, those Loda plays at the end... Normally i defend loda when people say he plays like shit, but this game...
That was some classic Jimmy shit.

[Sorcereria]

If 4ASC wins I am gonna cut D2L sleets or whatever its called. Fix the damn site and bots to actually WORK. 600$ value bet lost.

[Deleted]

lol @ this gem

I got wards placed! not much better but damm, couriers :P

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Yeah I like them quite a bit, somewhat jealous
Much, much better than golden Luna shield

really not. The Golden AM weapons look pretty blocky and badly textured when you see them, probably because they are so damm big.

The Luna one looks much higher quality imo.
Lesh staff is very nice!

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I want to confess that i often missmanage my mana and blink into 5 people without being able to ult as CM.

Also back in times when i used to build helm of dominator on Zeus, i spew gems like "omg Pudge is useless if he misses the hook"

yeah well, CM mana sucks early on.

You buy glimmer so you can ult, use glimmer....have no mana for ult! we've all been there

[Lysah]

really not. The Golden AM weapons look pretty blocky and badly textured when you see them, probably because they are so damm big.

Super flashy though! I do find it funny that they feel so unpolished for three weeks of extra polish. I still think they look great, though. To me, it feels like Valve's mistake with the golden version is they didn't put enough colors in it. The red in the center looks kind of SNES and the gold is all mostly one solid shade of yellow, too. Should've added extra shades just to smooth out the texture. Luna shield looks okay, but the model is too small to notice much in game, imo, and golden beams look ridiculous.

[Jester Joe]

I want to confess that i often missmanage my mana and blink into 5 people without being able to ult as CM.

Also back in times when i used to build helm of dominator on Zeus, i spew gems like "omg Pudge is useless if he misses the hook"

I ult and don't have enough mana to glimmer cape sometimes!

Also speaking of CM, I played literally the most annoying line up to deal with so far in my history of CM.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1506732585

Two blade mails if I ulted, Spiked carapace too if I ulted...and then two invisible surprise dagons, with Dooms. I spent literally half the team fights at that point running away.

Probably should of bought a BKB for blademails/spiked.

Super flashy though! I do find it funny that they feel so unpolished for three weeks of extra polish. I still think they look great, though. To me, it feels like Valve's mistake with the golden version is they didn't put enough colors in it. The red in the center looks kind of SNES and the gold is all mostly one solid shade of yellow, too. Should've added extra shades just to smooth out the texture. Luna shield looks okay, but the model is too small to notice much in game, imo, and golden beams look ridiculous.

Honestly I'm already sad I got the AM immortals, I like my Arcs of Manta too much...but immortals always have extra effects.

[Deleted]

As with the Luna Shield, i vastly prefer the regular over the golden one. The purple animations look really sick!

[PizzaSHARK]

Bot matches are always useful to get handle on controls (keybinds), simple mechanics (last hitting, creep equilibrium), timings. You don't want to pick Puck and suck on mid because you learn him "intuitively", you want at least to try him couple of times on bots to get the sharp idea of how this hero handles. And most important thing to practice in bot/single games after last hitting is how to connect pulled creeps. It's just super important, because its better to not pull at all if you think that you can fuck it up

Yes! I refuse to play a hero I don't know well, or try a new way of playing them (jungle WR which is pretty legit, jungle Sniper which is... well, you can do anything in pubs) until I've tested it in a few bot games, or at least some empty games to hammer out timings and proper movement patterns.

I feel like there should be some pretty stringent requirements to be able to queue for ranked - like X number of wins with a minimum of Y different heroes in either regular games or botmatches with bot AI being at least so high, etc. I really don't think you should have to worry about people clearly having no idea how to play with or against a given hero in ranked, but I see it all the time in my shitty 3k games and 3k is allegedly "above average."

[Sorcereria]

I am about to reimburse all my cash on credit card I used on dota after being put in LPQ for no reason with all people muted in my games for past 100 or so games.
Naturally cash in all my stock first . I am seriously pissed.

[PizzaSHARK]

I am about to reimburse all my cash on credit card I used on dota after being put in LPQ for no reason with all people muted in my games for past 100 or so games.
Naturally cash in all my stock first . I am seriously pissed.

Pretty sure Valve will take all your items if you do that. And maybe ban your account.

[Sorcereria]

If I cash in properly they cant do shit. Ban is fine, had new acc in plans anyway, 3.3k mmr ranked and 4.2k unranked is a great way to play.

[PizzaSHARK]

If I cash in properly they cant do shit. Ban is fine, had new acc in plans anyway, 3.3k mmr ranked and 4.2k unranked is a great way to play.

You don't own any other games?

[Sorcereria]

Fortunately not. This was already my 3nd acc. On main ones I have only Half life 1, 2 and thats all... Havent played much beside CS, WoW and Dota for past 20years. Ye I know, but thats how it is in competitive