WoW as Free to Play in the model of Hearthstone

[Relapses]

Nice Hypocrisy. If I have no supporting evidence you have no supporting evidence multiple times more; that's because WoW is multiple times less popular[and less profitable] on a subscription; F2P games are often multiple times more popular[and more profitable] nowadays.
I ignore the petty witch hunt on the rest of your "message".

What? My supporting evidence is the fact that we have 20 years of Blizzard using a subscription model for WoW. Hello?

[Delekii]

It works like this:

A) You can login normally and do EVERYTHING in the game with the current classes and specs and pets and whatever else you have collected already in the game

B) You are BARRED from playing 1 entire new class per expansion unless you buy the Expansion and perhaps barred from other options (e.g. the newest pets)

C) That means you can continue raiding with your friends on your old class without any handicap but your rich friends will have more options

A win win; Blizzard gets their money; paying-customers have more power and poor customers still play at a respectable level.

You have to be a literal fucking nutjob to think this is good for the game.

F2P models are almost universally parasitic and terrible. Hell, hearthstone just on the last week is going through massive drama as they tripled the requirements for gold quests while increasing rewards by 20%.

F2P is essentially a synonym with "employ any and all dirty, manipulative tactics to milk as much money from wealth inequality as possible".

We should be aiming and REDUCING this behaviour as consumers, rewarding companies that make good games first and monetise them second, instead of making products designed to make money first that happen to be games.

[epigramx]

synonym with "employ any and all dirty, manipulative tactics to milk as much money from wealth inequality as possible".

As opposed to having the worst of both worlds now?

You pay for "deluxe epic special" 3 day early pass.

You pay2win with buying gold to pay boosts.

[MrLachyG]

What? My supporting evidence is the fact that we have 20 years of Blizzard using a subscription model for WoW. Hello?

hey give him some credit. He swapped "straw man" for "witch hunt"

[Cynical Asshole]

Hearthstone has 0 content added to it over the years. Maybe not 0 but the content is extremely shallow and easy to make, so it may as well be nothing. So of course the game may as well be free since the costs of production are nearly 0.

[LightskyGG]

A) You can login normally and do EVERYTHING in the game with the current classes and specs and pets and whatever else you have collected already in the game

This is the only statement that can be made in relation to the game being free to play. In the traditional sense, a free-to-play game is any game that doesn't require payment to access the game or any of its content (current or future).

What you're describing in your post is a freemium game. The base game is free, but all future content is locked behind payment. It doesn't matter what is locked behind payment, if it's new and I can't access it for free, then it's not a free-to-play game. Does this make sense?

The Hearthstone model is free to play because we can install the game and play it without any initial cost. All the cards released with an expansion in Hearthstone can be obtained without spending a single dollar, albeit you'll obtain all the cards at a much slower rate than someone who bought them outright.

B) You are BARRED from playing 1 entire new class per expansion unless you buy the Expansion and perhaps barred from other options (e.g. the newest pets)

You say we're barred from playing the new class unless we fork over the cash. That's not free to play.

You also mention that the player is barred from using any of the "new pets". That's not free to play.

C) That means you can continue raiding with your friends on your old class without any handicap but your rich friends will have more options

This doesn't work in World of Warcraft; none of my "rich friends" are raiding Uldir as if it's current content. They all left me once The War Within launched. This is not free to play.

A win win; Blizzard gets their money; paying-customers have more power and poor customers still play at a respectable level.

The game being free to play will only make sense when the subscriptions are no longer paying the bills. If they went free to play tomorrow, there would be hype and I bet at least a million new people would play the game, or a mix of new and returning players. However, like every free-to-play game out there, how long does that hype last? How long do you retain that new million and your existing population?

Right now, financially speaking, it doesn't make sense for Blizzard to go free to play in World of Warcraft. They have oodles of other problems to solve before that would ever make sense, such as making the New Player Experience (NPE) significantly more inviting, interesting, and engaging. Blizzard's incentive is to make that experience for new players, and even veteran players, more engaging, so we spend more hours playing and they turn an even larger profit.

A win-win situation is they spend more time making the world, story, and systems more engaging, and we in turn pay them more for cosmetics in the shop, upgrade to a bigger subscription payment, etc. Who doesn't win there?

Unfortunately, your post just doesn't shout a "win-win" situation to me, nor does it describe a proper free-to-play model.

[Delekii]

As opposed to having the worst of both worlds now?

You pay for "deluxe epic special" 3 day early pass.

You pay2win with buying gold to pay boosts.

3 day early pass sucks and pay to win gold sucks, but the answer is not "full commit to enshittification". Those two things existing are fram from the worst of the MTX world, and more recently with things like the pirate event, mop event and such, they seem more interested in creating more value in the subscription rather than less (whatever your opinion on those things specifically is).

[Flaim]

None of that is an argument. Just a petty witch hunt. Do you have arguments on this specific topic?

Quod erat demonstrandum

[epigramx]

all future content is locked behind payment

No. I meant it would be temporarily limited at content; the future expansions could unlock a current expansion's locked features; e.g. you could play dracthyr only on the next expansion.

Notice there's strong support for competitive free to play here which is not exactly freemium; that's because the premium features would not be overpowered; it would be an option only.

[Mysterymask]

Quod erat demonstrandum

shhh you can't expect him to understand that

[Haruhime]

Pointless idea that will never happen anyways.

Once CN comes back online WoW will be over 10m subs again and only a fool would make such a risky move to switch one of the most profitable games from subscription to a f2p model.

[Lodreh]

Nice strawman. I know it's easy to "win" an argument if you talk to imaginary people.

I said even in the OP itself they could sell exclusive features like a new class.

They do this with new expansions that are bought on top of a sub

As opposed to having the worst of both worlds now?

You pay for "deluxe epic special" 3 day early pass.

You pay2win with buying gold to pay boosts.

3 day head start is paying to be part of the 11th hour beta test... no thanks.

Who the hell buys a boost? Just do the content with friends.

[Delekii]

No. I meant it would be temporarily limited at content; the future expansions could unlock a current expansion's locked features; e.g. you could play dracthyr only on the next expansion.

Notice there's strong support for competitive free to play here which is not exactly freemium; that's because the premium features would not be overpowered; it would be an option only.

Strong support.. by yourself and you?

Which thread are you reading?

Nobody wants this; it's amazing we're 350 posts in and you still think it's worth discussing. If this thread's posters were a microcosm of the population of WoW, they'd lose 80%+ of their players the day f2p was announced.

[Karreck]

shhh you can't expect him to understand that

He doesn't even understand what a Strawman is, so Latin is right out the window for him.

[Mysterymask]

He doesn't even understand what a Strawman is, so Latin is right out the window for him.

But perfect for him to start using randomly and inappropriately

[Khaza-R]

As opposed to having the worst of both worlds now?

You pay for "deluxe epic special" 3 day early pass.

You pay2win with buying gold to pay boosts.

You realize that Hearthstone has removed all content that doesn't make them money?

There hasn't been a new solo adventure in years.

Duels were removed because they couldn't monetize it.

Hell, they don't even do high budget trailers for their expansions anymore.

That's the design direction you're asking for in WoW. Anything that doesn't directly contribute to increasing profits would be abandoned as a waste of resources. If you think that's better than what you currently have in WoW then you're delusional.

[vashe9]

"Free" to play is is most deceiving word ever used. Most "F2P" games cost WAY (WAY!) more if you want to stay competitive with other players. I play some gacha "F2P" and they cost me more than any "Deluxe version " AAA I've bought full price, even at my "small plankton" level. Thank goodness WoW is one of the last non-F2P MMO with FF14

- - - Updated - - -

As opposed to having the worst of both worlds now?

You pay for "deluxe epic special" 3 day early pass.

You pay2win with buying gold to pay boosts.

These 3 days are absolutely nothing, except maybe if you want to try world first (lolz). You'll get an edge maybe one week max. If you're so bad at the game that you have to pay for boosts, you'll NEVER clear hard content anyway. You can smell boosted players MILES away. I never group boosted players on my PUG M+, even if it's a low 20 key. I'm sure I can outdps any boosted player any day with 30 less ilvl and I'm not an "elite player" at all

It's not P2W at all, a bad player with max ilvl stuff will still be bad, it's not a gacha where you can buy the best stuff and stomp "poor" players easily. Are you even playing this game ?!

I buy one token max every season to save time so I dont have to farm anything, I dont consider it pay2win at all

[epigramx]

You realize that Hearthstone has removed all content that doesn't make them money?

You assume they are good at making money. The game is less than 10% popular than its peak, in a world of 10X more players.

[Flaim]

You assume they are good at making money. The game is less than 10% popular than its peak, in a world of 10X more players.

here's some more of your beloved debate bro lingo:
false dichotomy.

removing stuff does not equate to increasing the income. at best, they are spending less, which may or may not lead to higher profits, depending on the circumstances.

even more of your debate bro lingo:
strawman argument.

you're putting words into his mouth without him saying anything relating to increasing their income. he only stated that they axed unmonetizable content.

[epigramx]

If you're so bad at the game that you have to pay for boosts, you'll NEVER clear hard content anyway

That's a funny argument. The literal World First guild literally pays2win in part; they have entire hordes of people they pay to get their drops from heroic runs; since gold can be purchased with real money and since those heavily sponsored guilds are often given gold they are obviously getting an advantage that way.

Side note: that's part of the reason the World First guild is probably not the best players in the world at an individual level; that's because it's more impressive to me to see a 3-day/4-hours guild be early than those professionals who play 24/7; be careful next time when you try to use a "me pro VS you noob" card.