[Megathread] DotA 2

[Charge me Doctor]

When the hero practically plays the game for you, why would you get bragging rights? You're gonna tell me Silencer is hard to play? Sven? Profit? Storm Spirit?

I don't have a problem with people picking heroes, I have a problem with people picking overpowered heroes and then acting like they're somehow skilled when the hero plays the game for them.

AR would be the only game mode worth playing if there was a reason to repick at all.

The only hero i can say that is hard to play is meepo, because if you fuck up your micro you lose the game. No hero is hard to play, it's all about clicking buttons.

I wan't to ask you, how is landing Svens' gauntlet is harder than landing Tides' gush, or CKs' bolt, or Tinkers' laser? I guess you just love to hug your teammates when laning against Sven.
Or, for example, how it's harder to farm wood camps by Ursa or Axe or Syla than Prophet? The only reason to rage on Prophet is his split-pushing capabilities and you can easily deny them by bringing dust/smoke to gank him when he pushes.

I understand your point, and these heroes are annoying when you can't handle them properly, but hating people for picking their favorite heroes and enjoying the game? Really?

For fuck sake, storm spirit is a garbage hero who countered by a freaking silence or mana drain. Buy an Orchid or Necro and get over it.

[Deleted]

I think you're confusing "winrate" with "balance."

I'm not one to claim pros play the game perfectly but.
For the most part, they correlate.

[Deleted]

Happens in nearly every AP game I see, someone picks a blatantly overpowered hero like Silencer or Storm Spirit and then acts like they're really good because they can "own" with them. Or you'll see stacks pick a bunch of tryhard shit, playing AP because they know they can't win CM games where they might not get all their favorite heroes.

It's fucking boring. I just wish the tryhards would be banned and have to go play League of Losers or something, games stop being fun when you see Profit or Silencer or Storm Spirit or fucking Sven every game because people know how broken they are.

No, they don't. Sure, there are some trends in AP games that follow the pro meta scene but the most OP of those aren't usually picked, for example Batrider, Wisp or Gyrocopter.

I can't see how you say Silencer or Sven are OP heroes or that they are getting picked often in AP games, they aren't. They aren't hard to deal with and certainly aren't overpowered. Storm Spirit is hard to deal with but I wouldn't say OP.

[Lysah]

.....pretty sure the tryhards pick Tree because it doesn't matter what 4 other heroes they pick they already won the game at this point.

@Doctor
You spend all your gold on Orchid, which gives zero survivability stats, and SS buys BKB. Now what?

Also, Furion has been commonly regarded as one of the strongest heroes in the game by a huge part of the high tier community for years *in the right hands.* Nobody cares about his ability to split push, Tinker can do that too and Tinker brings a lot more to his team late game with endless sheeps and blinds (and march of victory). Yet, people consider Furion more of a threat than Tinker because Furion means that every single time you try to start a 2v2 skirmish with the enemy team at 7 minutes it will actually end up 2v3 and you will die. Just by existing Furion makes every fight you get in unfair until you start 5 manning. And, of course, once you start 5 manning he can punish you by simply farming the other two lanes until you crack.

Only bad players farm jungle for 20 minutes, Furion's strength is in constantly ganking all 3 lanes. Personally, I rage on Profit pickers because when they're on my team I know they're going to rush midas, then shadow blade, then desolator, and then just AFK push all game and never once help in team fights or skirmishes, which pretty much means the game is lost.

[Deleted]

Only bad players farm jungle for 20 minutes, Furion's strength is in constantly ganking all 3 lanes. Personally, I rage on Profit pickers because when they're on my team I know they're going to rush midas, then shadow blade, then desolator, and then just AFK push all game and never once help in team fights or skirmishes, which pretty much means the game is lost.

Easy on the hate. You cannot constantly gank all 3 lanes at least not in very high, you're just wasting time. Until level 6 you're just an autoattack(they can cut through sprout), and if you invest points into teleport, you're making jungling a lot slower then it needs to be. Going Midas->Shadowblade is a very good build because it allows you to stay on par with carries and to force enemies into buying dusts/sentries.

[Hermanni]

Easy on the hate. You cannot constantly gank all 3 lanes at least not in very high, you're just wasting time. Until level 6 you're just an autoattack(they can cut through sprout), and if you invest points into teleport, you're making jungling a lot slower then it needs to be. Going Midas->Shadowblade is a very good build because it allows you to stay on par with carries and to force enemies into buying dusts/sentries.

You can actually constantly gank if your lineup allows it, I have something like 75% winrate rushing Urn > Medallion in the jungle. Midas > Shadowblade is maybe the shittiest build for a jungle Furion, 25 minutes in and you're next to no use for your team and your fear of dying rivals only that of being useful. And most of the time I see no reason to put more than 2-3 points into Treants before maxing TP, Furion is a seriously bad jungler and more Treants only makes it marginally better.

[Tiev]

Seems spirit breakers replaced Drow as the pub stomp hero recently, i get him in atleast 90% of my games on one side or the other. I agree its annoying to see the same shit in all pick over and over but All random can be just as annoying if the enemy gets a phantom lancer or someone equally op and you have no counters. I hope one day they make a mode like all pick but where each person gets to ban one hero.

Have someone pick Omni. Fixed him for you.

[hiragana]

Have someone pick Omni. Fixed him for you.

I usually just pick tree, armor them before he hits and it usually works out ok. Still boring as fuck to see the same hero over and over.

[Tiev]

Yeah, I agree. I call it easy lanes though since he's easily countered if you have the reflexes and the right hero to do so.

[Tiev]

What problem? Dota is built around heroes having their period of peaking. If you have a snowballed late game hero then the team didn't do what it had to do to prevent it.

Void for instance is only megapowerful late game so your job in a team with more mid-game oriented heroes is to shut him down early. Prevent his farm and force fights mid-game where you have the advantage.

Also, there are some int carries in the game that can own hard as well if free-farmed like OD. Besides most int heroes' strength does not come through damage. It's their utility that's so important and keeps important late-game as well such as Warlock, lich, enigma, silencer, AP, etc.

I don't see that as a problem at all.

[Hermanni]

How do people feel about items like Spellshards from HoN?

http://newerth.wikia.com/wiki/Spellshards


Basically allows int heroes to scale a bit more like a carry does with items boosting their auto attack damage.

It can lead to some nasty nukes though and Ogre multicasts are really rough. It does solve the problem of sometimes having unkillable tanks late game where int heroes can't even put a dint in them.

Opinions? No place in Dota?

Spellshards was an awful item because buying it for many heroes was such a no-brainer, and it made heroes that have a tendency to snowball early snowball even harder, and the item itself was just a very strong, boring passive effect. Veil of Discord does most of what Spellshards did while being more demanding to use and, most importantly, a team item.

Spellshards also obsoleted some items or put them way lower in the priority list, like Scepter for Zeus (or Thunderbringer.) Not only was Spellshards cheaper and easier to build than Scepter, it made you do more damage with your ultimate than Scepter while also upgrading all your other spell damage too. Maybe you had less HP than with Scepter but you in return you got more mana, mana regen and reduced cooldowns.

[PapaBoss]

Hey guys, noob here

I picked up this game with no experience in DOTA (or LoL [I know right]) and I don't quite know how to do well. I pick Sven as he is the most aesthetically pleasing hero to me but I just can't kill any other heroes and just end up getting rolled over later in the fight. Any help is appreciated.

[Longview]

Hey guys, noob here

I picked up this game with no experience in DOTA (or LoL [I know right]) and I don't quite know how to do well. I pick Sven as he is the most aesthetically pleasing hero to me but I just can't kill any other heroes and just end up getting rolled over later in the fight. Any help is appreciated.

kill creeps

buy items

kill heroes

buy more items

kill base

[kronpas]

How do people feel about items like Spellshards from HoN?

http://newerth.wikia.com/wiki/Spellshards


Basically allows int heroes to scale a bit more like a carry does with items boosting their auto attack damage.

It can lead to some nasty nukes though and Ogre multicasts are really rough. It does solve the problem of sometimes having unkillable tanks late game where int heroes can't even put a dint in them.

Opinions? No place in Dota?

duplicated usage from orchid and veil and various other regernating items. Also the whole game is evolved around the concept of reverse scaling for int heroes, any universal, no-brainer straight upgrade for them risks throwing balance out of the window.

[Charge me Doctor]

How do people feel about items like Spellshards from HoN?

http://newerth.wikia.com/wiki/Spellshards


Basically allows int heroes to scale a bit more like a carry does with items boosting their auto attack damage.

It can lead to some nasty nukes though and Ogre multicasts are really rough. It does solve the problem of sometimes having unkillable tanks late game where int heroes can't even put a dint in them.

Opinions? No place in Dota?

Int heroes already scales into a carry by buying int. You can land more spells, you hit harder, what else you want? You want to ignore magic resistance? Build Veil of Discord. And honestly, passive items that allows you to ignore enemy defense are not fun.

[PizzaSHARK]

I wan't to ask you, how is landing Svens' gauntlet is harder than landing Tides' gush, or CKs' bolt, or Tinkers' laser? I guess you just love to hug your teammates when laning against Sven.

Because Sven's stun does 325 damage in an AOE larger than Split Earth, LSA, etc and doesn't require prediction or aiming - click, click, instant 325 damage and a 2 second stun. Sven also buffs his creeps with +16 armor, making him extremely good for early pushing, and later on he gets both tons of damage and cleave for free, making him a reasonably effective carry. All Sven needs to start chopping people in half is a BKB and maybe Mask of Madness (if he's his team's carry), or Armlet and maybe a Cuirass or something (if he isn't his team's carry.) Out of all the possible STR carries, I'd say Sven is probably the best with only Leoric (and only if your team doesn't pick a mana burn hero like Anti-Mage, PL, or Naga) giving him a real run for his money.

He can be run as a carry, as a DK-esque fatass (seriously, armlet+cuirass+war cry = immune to physical), and he's even a pretty effective support. That's a ton of versatility for a hero that does all three roles very well, and isn't especially difficult to play. Hell, get a Soul Ring and you can pretty quickly force people out of lane simply by stun spamming them, and it also boosts your farm substantially as well.

Or, for example, how it's harder to farm wood camps by Ursa or Axe or Syla than Prophet? The only reason to rage on Prophet is his split-pushing capabilities and you can easily deny them by bringing dust/smoke to gank him when he pushes.

The "afk farm in jungle for 20 mins and then never participate in teamfights," Profit is really easy to deal with; Spirit Breaker in particular just shits all over that kind of Profit. The kind of Profit that I feel breaks the game is the kind that's participating in teamfights and skirmishes from the word go; Meka, Medallion, Urn, and all kinds of other shit. You start a skirmish somewhere, Profit TPs in and suddenly you just fed 2 kills when it was a sure thing, and now they're taking a tower with trees tanking for the creeps. Or you start a fight elsewhere, Profit participates and then once you lose the fight TPs to a different lane and now you lose two towers instead of one.

Essentially it's not Profit that's bullshit, it's Teleport, and how incredibly gross that skill is when used smartly.

For fuck sake, storm spirit is a garbage hero who countered by a freaking silence or mana drain. Buy an Orchid or Necro and get over it.

Orchid costs 4125, BKB costs 3900. SS is a good farmer in addition to being a strong ganker, and your Orchid is rendered irrelevant once he has a BKB. Even if you have Orchid before he has BKB, he'll just avoid teamfights while quickly finishing his BKB, and given how powerful SS is early on (especially for ganking/counter-ganking), it's not really likely you can get Orchid before his BKB unless your Orchid guy is AFK farming and avoids getting ganked.

The only way to really handle SS is to pick a hero that can deal with him, but near as I can tell, every hero with a good silence to use against him has their own drawbacks. I'd say Bloodseeker would be good against him, but Rupture deals no damage while he's zipping around, so unless he's already OOM, he can just zap himself to safety.

Have someone pick Omni. Fixed him for you.

Omni would only really counter him in teamfights, but SB doesn't usually do a lot of teamfighting early on since he's typically used as a ganker. SB's stuns all ignore Repel, and Purification will only go so far when SB tends to have a commanding HP lead over basically every hero for most of the early game (he has something like 925 EHP at lvl 1.)

The only situation in which Omni would effectively counter an SB pick is if Omni's team went for an aggressive, all-in pushing strategy, since SB is pretty bad at teamfighting without BKB.

[Longview]

Out of all the possible STR carries, I'd say Sven is probably the best with only Leoric (and only if your team doesn't pick a mana burn hero like Anti-Mage, PL, or Naga) giving him a real run for his money.

no tiny? lifestealer? alchemist? DK?

are we even playing the same game?

[Lysah]

Tiny is average carry, N'aix is average hero. Alch and DK are good tho
Also Batrider is a much harder counters to the AFK shadow blade furion, he can just blink ult him anywhere he goes and a few stacks of oil means furion isn't going anywhere even with Shadow Blade. Just carry a stack of dust and furion is a free kill any time he leaves his fountain.

[Longview]

Tiny is average carry

yeah but he was raving about how amazing his carry was a while ago

i don't get this guy at all

[Lysah]

yeah but he was raving about how amazing his carry was a while ago

i don't get this guy at all

Maybe if you skip scepter and just punch people to death the classic way. I swear the tree slows him down even more.