[Megathread] DotA 2

[Longview]

I haven't tried Ursa myself but he looks easy as fuck to jungle with now and you can easily get a level 6 Roshan I think.

go to roshpit at around six minutes to collect your free aegis + double kill

[Drunkenvalley]

I honestly don't know yet, I've only played Zeus once, but I think I'll try him soon to get used to dewarding without having to waste gold just to get sentries and fail.

Unrelated: Got into game. Picked Zeus. Said I could mid or support. Wound up Zeus carry. My god the intensity when your team's done bad and you're the only reason the game hasn't ended already. /hyperventilate

[Jester Joe]

Unrelated: Got into game. Picked Zeus. Said I could mid or support. Wound up Zeus carry. My god the intensity when your team's done bad and you're the only reason the game hasn't ended already. /hyperventilate

The struggle is real.
Although I honestly didn't think a Zeus would be able to prevent a game from ending, that must of been a fun time!

[minteK917]

Theres no way id pull off lvl 3 roshan against the people i usually play against, i usually require smoke and a distraction from my team to even pull it off. Lvl 3 my team wont be able to do much as a distraction, supports are paranoid about the rosh pit when ursa or lycan is in the game, if im not dire side i wont even bother picking them anyway

[Keldarin]

The struggle is real.
Although I honestly didn't think a Zeus would be able to prevent a game from ending, that must of been a fun time!

Yeah, that seems impressive :P

At my skill bracket, Roshan only seems to be considered at the 30-40 min mark, and usually it ends up being wasted in a random pickoff about a min later.

#2,6k the struggle is real

[Drunkenvalley]

The struggle is real.
Although I honestly didn't think a Zeus would be able to prevent a game from ending, that must of been a fun time!

I didn't think so either, but it was a bit of everyone showing we're a little bad I think lol. http://dotabuff.com/matches/637989911

[Deleted]

Theres no way id pull off lvl 3 roshan against the people i usually play against, i usually require smoke and a distraction from my team to even pull it off. Lvl 3 my team wont be able to do much as a distraction, supports are paranoid about the rosh pit when ursa or lycan is in the game, if im not dire side i wont even bother picking them anyway

Why not? I don't think it's feasible for people to constantly check rosh that early during laning stage but they just assume that you are jungling. They certainly don't do at my MMR. Maybe you're higher.

People are also used at checking Roshan as soon as Ursa is gone from the map for more than 20 seconds, so going in at lower level doesn't really increase your chance of killing it. If nothing, it even lessens it, 'cause it takes you a lot more time to solo it at lvl 3, giving them more time to scout you out.

Same point here. You are already constantly off the map jungling so I don't see how people are consonantly checking Rosh 3-4 minutes in the game. No one does that. Maybe they will if Ursa becomes more popular but right now there is no way people are doing that. At least not at my MMR.

[veiledy0]

You are already constantly off the map jungling so I don't see how people are consonantly checking Rosh 3-4 minutes in the game.

If Ursa decides to jungle from lvl 1, even better. It costs a measly 350g to absolutely wreck him. Because Ursa is one of those heroes that can and will go straight for big camps from lvl 1, if he is, per say, Dire, assuming you gave 1 obs to your easy lane for the sake of lane warding, you can place your remaining obs to give vision of the bottom medium camp and the rune, and sentry the 2 top right camps. That leaves him with only 2 camps to work with. The small camp, which if he uses, his lane can not effectively pull, and the big camp close to the Radiant's off lane, that can be scouted for the price of 1 tango to cut you out some vision on it.

I personally do this whenever I play support against Ursa, and I pretty much play support in most games when I'm stacking with Bane and some other friends (on some occasions I go mid, but approx. 8/10 games I play the #5 position support, 'cause, both, they are all ~2k mmr above me, and Crystal Maiden is the only blonde hero in the game), and in pubs, the only way that Ursa would get a support to deward it for him would be if he's stacked with the given support, but if that was the case he wouldn't go jungle in the first place.

[Deleted]

If Ursa decides to jungle from lvl 1, even better. It costs a measly 350g to absolutely wreck him. Because Ursa is one of those heroes that can and will go straight for big camps from lvl 1, if he is, per say, Dire, assuming you gave 1 obs to your easy lane for the sake of lane warding, you can place your remaining obs to give vision of the bottom medium camp and the rune, and sentry the 2 top right camps. That leaves him with only 2 camps to work with. The small camp, which if he uses, his lane can not effectively pull, and the big camp close to the Radiant's off lane, that can be scouted for the price of 1 tango to cut you out some vision on it.

I personally do this whenever I play support against Ursa, and I pretty much play support in most games when I'm stacking with Bane and some other friends (on some occasions I go mid, but approx. 8/10 games I play the #5 position support, 'cause, both, they are all ~2k mmr above me, and Crystal Maiden is the only blonde hero in the game), and in pubs, the only way that Ursa would get a support to deward it for him would be if he's stacked with the given support, but if that was the case he wouldn't go jungle in the first place.

Just because you do it doesn't mean it's the norm. Very rarely do people ward that many camps in public games, at least in my games and it isn't that easy to just run in that deep into enemy woods alone as support especially if you are going down to safe lane again after that. We're not playing competitive here. I also don't see how you afford observers, sentries and chicken from minute 1 without gimping yourself to oblivion.

[veiledy0]

Just because you do it doesn't mean it's the norm. Very rarely do people ward that many camps in public games, at least in my games and it isn't that easy to just run in that deep into enemy woods alone as support especially if you are going down to safe lane again after that. We're not playing competitive here. I also don't see how you afford observers, sentries and chicken from minute 1 without gimping yourself to oblivion.

It's not the norm, but when I know there's a carry on my team worth supporting my ass off for, I'll do it, up to the point I'll even pick Wisp \o/. I don't buy the chicken. I buy the obs and sentries as soon as the game starts, and rush to their jungle (6.81 made it even easier, as you can drop 1 obs to the ground at your fountain, without having to wait for the other heroes to spawn in other to share it), while typing "i got double wards, someone pls get cour, I'll upgrade". If no one does it, then they're full retard, and "when game is going full retard, you can only go with it. If you start going against it, if you start going half retard, you're fucking done for".

[Deleted]

It's not the norm, but when I know there's a carry on my team worth supporting my ass off for, I'll do it, up to the point I'll even pick Wisp \o/. I don't buy the chicken. I buy the obs and sentries as soon as the game starts, and rush to their jungle (6.81 made it even easier, as you can drop 1 obs to the ground at your fountain, without having to wait for the other heroes to spawn in other to share it), while typing "i got double wards, someone pls get cour, I'll upgrade". If no one does it, then they're full retard, and "when game is going full retard, you can only go with it. If you start going against it, if you start going half retard, you're fucking done for".

But you said "people".

[veiledy0]

But you said "people".

I do hate calling it that way, but it did seem to me that "people" is the most commonly used acronym on the internet for "more than averagely interactive pixels". Fitting in done the right way, innit.

[minteK917]

To be fair if you are a bane or a cm you arent really gimping yourself buying obs, sentries and courrier at the start and if you block all camp when its assured of a jungler or at the very least when no jungler you block the easy camp. You buy them instantly at the start and rush there right away. Many spots in both jungle where you can place a sentry that will be next to impossible to deward unless they know exactly where to put the sentry down and have a quelling blade to cut a tree or two.

I often play offlane kunkka, lc, clockwork, weaver and with each of them i got enough money to have a good start and buy a stack of sentries to block the easy camp, it gives me back more gold and more experience in the long run.

[Deleted]

To be fair if you are a bane or a cm you arent really gimping yourself buying obs, sentries and courrier at the start and if you block all camp when its assured of a jungler or at the very least when no jungler you block the easy camp. You buy them instantly at the start and rush there right away. Many spots in both jungle where you can place a sentry that will be next to impossible to deward unless they know exactly where to put the sentry down and have a quelling blade to cut a tree or two.

I often play offlane kunkka, lc, clockwork, weaver and with each of them i got enough money to have a good start and buy a stack of sentries to block the easy camp, it gives me back more gold and more experience in the long run.

You really are gimping yourself. 550 gold used and you have 100 gold left. That's not even tangos and most of the time your mid ask for pooling because it's the standard nowadays. How are you ever going to trade hits or zone out the offlaner if you got no regen items? Don't you usually want a smoke on Bane or CM at the start to gank the mid? Don't you need 1-2 clarities to not have to go back to base after one gank?

As for offlaners, having to waste 200 gold on sentries that only last 4 minutes anyway is a waste in my opinion. You are gimping yourself too much and it doesn't even help you on lane. If the support is not pulling he will be more inclined to try to zone you out or roam on your mid hero and their carry has an easier time harassing you down because you either lack regeneration or stat items.

[veiledy0]

On Weaver, you're much better off with buying a Ring of Armor for those 200g, to finish off your Basi after the first creep wave, because a lot of supports are clueless about lane equilibrium and tend to pull into unstacked camps, which then causes the next creep wave to meet directly under their T1, at which point you turn your Basi aura on and make it super hard for their carry to last hit, and at the same time buy yourself time to attack their tower, with the added benefit that the creep wave after that will meet right otside the range of your T1, exactly where you want it to be. And if their support tries to zone you out while his carry is busy farming under their tower, just show him who's the Weaver in that lane and kill him.

[Lysah]

I don't think wasting 200g to block two extra camps is worth it, ever, in any game, at any MMR. Every time I get that heavily "countered" I laugh my ass off that the enemy support was dumb enough to shovel over that much gold that early to do effectively nothing. If you want to counter jungle someone, ward in a place that gives vision WITHOUT blocking camps and either steal their camps from range with spells or just gank them while their back is turned. Blocking camps does nothing because you can't possibly block all 5 and even if you try Ursa will just wait 4 minutes and then continue on the path to free gold while you're stuck at level 1 and free food.

You'd be amazed how well a level 1 earthshaker with 7 clarities can screw over a jungle just by running around and fissuring almost dead creeps.

- - - Updated - - -

As an addendum, warding certain camps CAN be great against certain junglers. You can prevent chen/enchant from getting certain creeps, which makes lanes easier to predict if you suspect the enemy is smart enough to smoke. You can screw over junglers that rely on easy camps to get started. You can also ward the "safe" camps to make it much more dangerous for quasi-junglers like CM to pull off their pulls, as it is way easier to block the far camps and check the camps closer to a lane and if the only open camps are the ones right next to the enemy offlane many slow junglers are in a bad spot to get ganked if they try it.

I still would never multi-ward against Ursa, though, just like I wouldn't bother against Axe.

[Jester Joe]

just like I wouldn't bother against Axe.

No one ever bothers against Axe.
Speaking of which, I kinda miss playing Slot Machine Axe, where sometimes you'd go up to a creep camp and destroy their hopes and dreams, or just kinda waddle in a poke them around.
Don't get me wrong, it is better for the unlucky streaks which happen more often, but man those lucky streaks.

[Drunkenvalley]

Some people deserve a special place in hell...

I have low mana, an empty bottle, and see a regen rune. However, a lich is trying to escape a QoP nearby. I decide to use the last of my mana to scare away QoP. Lich begins walking home, then TURNS BACK to take the bloody regen rune despite me running literally on his heels to get it first.

And then when I had the audacity to tell him that was bloody dumb (now two people had to go back to base, because he still had dagger DoT) I was clearly being a tryhard, and when I tell him he's being a twat you get the ol' three-man stack starting to rag on you because, well, they're a bundle of sticks... /sigh

[Deleted]

Some people deserve a special place in hell...

I have low mana, an empty bottle, and see a regen rune. However, a lich is trying to escape a QoP nearby. I decide to use the last of my mana to scare away QoP. Lich begins walking home, then TURNS BACK to take the bloody regen rune despite me running literally on his heels to get it first.

And then when I had the audacity to tell him that was bloody dumb (now two people had to go back to base, because he still had dagger DoT) I was clearly being a tryhard, and when I tell him he's being a twat you get the ol' three-man stack starting to rag on you because, well, they're a bundle of sticks... /sigh

It was the correct play by him to take the rune. You two just didn't capitalize on it.

[Drunkenvalley]

It was the correct play by him to take the rune. You two just didn't capitalize on it.

I wasn't in range to pass him the bottle, nor did I have the time to explain since he was just running straight at the rune. There were plenty ways of capitalizing on it, but not the way he went ahead and did it only to have it cancelled within moments.

Or am I missing the obvious?