[Megathread] DotA 2

[Kuntantee]

I suffer when I lose a game hard as much as when I win a game hard. Last game mortred solo top against silencer + tide hunter and dominated the lane. I tried to convince mortred to get a support in lame which was lich but he refused and I said whatever. I wasn't expecting him to dominate lane and subsequently the game. Actually mortred can not solo top and dominate that lane...it was just we were playing against hard noobs. I agree with you, forcing bot games is a good idea.

[Lysah]

Losing isn't fun, and winning isn't fun. It's the matchmaking system that's at fault, thinking it can use mathematics to balance a game of 10 human beings. Whenever I queue with a friend we get three allies who are FAR, FAR worse than our 5 enemies. The system gives us worse allies to balance out my MMR and calls it fair, but at the end of the day, this is a team game, and one good player cannot make a team.

[Lillpapps]

Two people seems to be the worst number to queue with. If you are three then you can pretty much win the game if the other team is much worse than you but with two people it doesnt really matter if you dominate your lane if you end up losing the other two. If you solo queue then you often times gets players around your skill level. Hopefully this will become a lot better when the games goes F2P and the player pool gets bigger. It doesnt have to be a huge difference between the best and worst player in a team.

[Lysah]

Yes, hopefully.

[Deleted]

So, I saw this thread and thought "Warcraft?" and then saw it's a game actually. So then I googled it, found it, looked at heroes, found tons of familiar faces, even my favourites, the huntress and the dryad and then I saw... Valve?

So then I remembered of them going to make a game and having a trial with Blizzard about the name, and thought ok, Valve made their own and wanted the name, so since there was a nice link to heroes, I thought to check it, and... most of the Warcraft 3 Dota heroes are there? What? Colour me surprised, I did not expect that, I mean ok, name, name, but having the heroes from the actual Dota, which was made using the engine of the WC3 game seems odd.
Am I missing something here?

[Hermanni]

People play badly against Nature's Prophet a lot. What you need to do is whenever you want to play 5-man dota on the enemy minimap far from your base is to make sure ALL your lanes are properly pushed out before you set out to gank/push/roshan/force teamfight. Without massive farm a Prophet won't be able to backdoor against protection and even if he neglects to fight to push your team will have time to do their thing and then react to his push.

Generally speaking Prophet might be the most badly played hero in Dota and it's pretty easy to set up a gank against a bad one, much like it is easy to establish dominance early game when enemy Prophet seems insists on sitting in the jungle for 20 minutes to get his Hand of Idiot and Scepter or whatever. One of the few good DPS items on Furion is Desolator, not only because it's generally good on any sidekick carry but because it also works on buildings. Another one would be Manta Style.

[Lysah]

So, I saw this thread and thought "Warcraft?" and then saw it's a game actually. So then I googled it, found it, looked at heroes, found tons of familiar faces, even my favourites, the huntress and the dryad and then I saw... Valve?

So then I remembered of them going to make a game and having a trial with Blizzard about the name, and thought ok, Valve made their own and wanted the name, so since there was a nice link to heroes, I thought to check it, and... most of the Warcraft 3 Dota heroes are there? What? Colour me surprised, I did not expect that, I mean ok, name, name, but having the heroes from the actual Dota, which was made using the engine of the WC3 game seems odd.
Am I missing something here?

Anything remotely blizzard copyright had to be changed. Pandaren Brewmaster is now just Brewmaster, and he's a mouse thing instead of a panda. Obsidian Destroyer is now Outland Destroyer. Heroes with names like "Furion" got changed, and heroes with models that would be obvious ripoffs got completely changed. PA, for example, uses a completely different weapon and armor, although they kept her a smallish ninja-y female so it still fits. Items like buriza-do got renamed to "deadalus." And so on.

Icefrog is the current "owner" of the DotA franchise, so to speak, and he works for Valve, so it's all legit. They can't literally copy and paste Blizzard models and names, but they do the best they can. The legal fight was over the actual keyword "DotA," Blizzard wanted to call their iteration "blizzard dota," but lost the case and had to rename "blizzard allstars." Eul is still credited in game, although Guinsoo is not, probably because he's now "the enemy" working for Riot on LoL. At the end of the day, Blizzard has no stake in DotA and has never worked on it.

[Alraml]

Anything remotely blizzard copyright had to be changed. Pandaren Brewmaster is now just Brewmaster, and he's a mouse thing instead of a panda. Obsidian Destroyer is now Outland Destroyer. Heroes with names like "Furion" got changed, and heroes with models that would be obvious ripoffs got completely changed. PA, for example, uses a completely different weapon and armor, although they kept her a smallish ninja-y female so it still fits. Items like buriza-do got renamed to "deadalus." And so on.

Icefrog is the current "owner" of the DotA franchise, so to speak, and he works for Valve, so it's all legit. They can't literally copy and paste Blizzard models and names, but they do the best they can. The legal fight was over the actual keyword "DotA," Blizzard wanted to call their iteration "blizzard dota," but lost the case and had to rename "blizzard allstars." Eul is still credited in game, although Guinsoo is not, probably because he's now "the enemy" working for Riot on LoL. At the end of the day, Blizzard has no stake in DotA and has never worked on it.

I wish they just called him Harbinger. Outworld Destroyer is such a mouthful

Generally speaking Prophet might be the most badly played hero in Dota

I'd say drow is the worst played hero in dota. Looooooooot of bad drows out there

Side Note: Does anybody give a damn about the lore of this game? I've completely ignored it entirely since I started playing like 5-6 years ago yet everytime I look at new item designs in the Steam workshop there's a lot of butthurt how it doesn't "fit in with the lore"

One of which is a very nice companion cube courier model which I love since it's a Valve game but people seem to really have a problem with that kind of stuff for some strange reason. This is literally the first time i've actually encountered these types of people and i've been playing this game for a long time

[Lysah]

I wish they just called him Harbinger. Outworld Destroyer is such a mouthful

They seem to try to keep the monikers intact. "OD" remains "OD."

Prophet is also the number one contender for average worst played hero in DotA in my opinion. A good prophet is borderline overpowered, but 99% of them are just BAAAAAAAAAAD. And his ability to push lanes with his ult can really hurt his own team if he's an idiot.

And people who take the joke side effect lore seriously make me zzzzzz

[PizzaSHARK]

I'd say drow is the worst played hero in dota. Looooooooot of bad drows out there

Bloodseeker or Riki. Both get played by bad players a lot, and in both cases bad players do nothing but feed and scream OP while playing them. Bloodseeker thinks he's immortal and Riki doesn't know what a sentry ward is.

Side Note: Does anybody give a damn about the lore of this game? I've completely ignored it entirely since I started playing like 5-6 years ago yet everytime I look at new item designs in the Steam workshop there's a lot of butthurt how it doesn't "fit in with the lore"

One of which is a very nice companion cube courier model which I love since it's a Valve game but people seem to really have a problem with that kind of stuff for some strange reason. This is literally the first time i've actually encountered these types of people and i've been playing this game for a long time

Why would you give two shits about DotA lore? No effort has ever been put into making it coherent, consistent, or even interesting.

[Deleted]

Anything remotely blizzard copyright had to be changed. Pandaren Brewmaster is now just Brewmaster, and he's a mouse thing instead of a panda. Obsidian Destroyer is now Outland Destroyer. Heroes with names like "Furion" got changed, and heroes with models that would be obvious ripoffs got completely changed. PA, for example, uses a completely different weapon and armor, although they kept her a smallish ninja-y female so it still fits. Items like buriza-do got renamed to "deadalus." And so on.

Icefrog is the current "owner" of the DotA franchise, so to speak, and he works for Valve, so it's all legit. They can't literally copy and paste Blizzard models and names, but they do the best they can. The legal fight was over the actual keyword "DotA," Blizzard wanted to call their iteration "blizzard dota," but lost the case and had to rename "blizzard allstars." Eul is still credited in game, although Guinsoo is not, probably because he's now "the enemy" working for Riot on LoL. At the end of the day, Blizzard has no stake in DotA and has never worked on it.

I understand, thank you for that information, was just surprised to see all those heroes I knew. Now it makes sense.

[PizzaSHARK]

What kind of items does a support veno usually get?

I got Arcane Boots since no one else was getting them, and because it meant I could spam wards and gales constantly, but the game suggests treads... maybe go for INT treads?

Went for magic wand and an early bracer (veno is squishy!), finished boots, made Agha's, and then the game ended not long after that. Ended up being a pretty good game, I think, though I think we lost. Gale and his ult are amazingly powerful, but because it's over time you don't notice them until people just spontaneously start dropping dead.

[Kuntantee]

What kind of items does a support veno usually get?

I got Arcane Boots since no one else was getting them, and because it meant I could spam wards and gales constantly, but the game suggests treads... maybe go for INT treads?

Went for magic wand and an early bracer (veno is squishy!), finished boots, made Agha's, and then the game ended not long after that. Ended up being a pretty good game, I think, though I think we lost. Gale and his ult are amazingly powerful, but because it's over time you don't notice them until people just spontaneously start dropping dead.

if you want to play support, you can go for support items such as pipe, mecha, wards, smoke etc. etc. it's not different and most likely build will depend to the enemy hero setup. Veno is good but gale + ulti comes with deny risk. It's hard to deny in 5v5 team fights but in small fights if enemy hero runs away with your dots, his/her team mate can easly deny him.

[PizzaSHARK]

if you want to play support, you can go for support items such as pipe, mecha, wards, smoke etc. etc. it's not different and most likely build will depend to the enemy hero setup. Veno is good but gale + ulti comes with deny risk. It's hard to deny in 5v5 team fights but in small fights if enemy hero runs away with your dots, his/her team mate can easly deny him.

Which still means they lose gold and farm/XP time. It's still a win in my opinion, just less of a win than if you got the bounty for them.

[Kuntantee]

Which still means they lose gold and farm/XP time. It's still a win in my opinion, just less of a win than if you got the bounty for them.

It's a win for sure but not that advantageous

[PizzaSHARK]

İt's a win for sure but not that advantageous

Hah, not in a major way, but an advantage is an advantage, and the little things add up over time

[Alraml]

Why would you give two shits about DotA lore? No effort has ever been put into making it coherent, consistent, or even interesting.

Have a look at the item creation pages on Steam Workshop, you'd be surprised how bad it is.

Though my suspicion is that it's a lot of bs'ing just to push their own agendas for how THEY want the game to be

What kind of items does a support veno usually get?

I got Arcane Boots since no one else was getting them, and because it meant I could spam wards and gales constantly, but the game suggests treads... maybe go for INT treads?

Went for magic wand and an early bracer (veno is squishy!), finished boots, made Agha's, and then the game ended not long after that. Ended up being a pretty good game, I think, though I think we lost. Gale and his ult are amazingly powerful, but because it's over time you don't notice them until people just spontaneously start dropping dead.

Your core usually as a support is magic wand, arcane boots, courier and wards.

Items you should try to get would be meka, force staff and aghanim's scepter since you're relying on being good teamfight damage output for your team rather than being a carry

Pipe is a situational thing, sometimes the other team just won't have much magic damage and pipe is really expensive and time consuming to make if the other team isn't rocking some serious nukes considering you get little other benefit out of it.

[PizzaSHARK]

I generally favor Eul's over Force Staff... I love the move speed boost and cyclone can be really nice to have, but both are good. Would you recommend rushing the scepter to maximize the ult's damage early, or hold off on it in favor of a faster Mek/staff?

[Alraml]

I generally favor Eul's over Force Staff... I love the move speed boost and cyclone can be really nice to have, but both are good. Would you recommend rushing the scepter to maximize the ult's damage early, or hold off on it in favor of a faster Mek/staff?

I'd say go for mek/staff (Favouring mek for early pushing power) first because they're much easier to make and give you the necessary boosts to things such as mana you need early game

Agh is just generally good as it's a big mana and health boost and makes your ulti a lot more frightening but unless you're in 5on5 situations you won't get that much benefit out of it in the early stages of the game.

[Lashmoo]

Have a look at the item creation pages on Steam Workshop, you'd be surprised how bad it is.

Though my suspicion is that it's a lot of bs'ing just to push their own agendas for how THEY want the game to be.

I always viewed those commentaries more along the lines of, "This doesn't fit in with the art style/setting." vs actual concern over 'Lore'. That said, that's something the creators monitor and approve themselves, so there's no reason for anyone to get gung-ho about it.