[Megathread] DotA 2

[Hermanni]

You have to be literally retarded if you think Storm Spirit is okay. If you think he's okay, provide some useful, intelligent rebuttal or go back to hiding under your fucking bridge.

Go back 500 posts and I used to do this, but it get's tiring to write essays just so you can shut up for a week and and then come back talking the exact same shit.

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Fine, Pizza. Only for you will I type out a lengthy reverse summary of my comment.

Due to the constant storm complaining, I finally decided to look up one of these lysah storm complaint games out of curiosity. In this particular game, it seems like 99% of what lysah said was over exaggerated by quite a bit.

If this is the game from 2 days ago it's not really something worth talking about as we were grouped with 3 friends of mine of which 2 are something like 3k MMR. Storm is obviously hard to stop when most of your team randoms and the enemy player lastpicks him after he sees 0 instant stuns/silences.

[LiiLoSNK]

I was just saying!

I didn't even wanna bring it up, but I got called out on being a "pathetic cop-out artist" because I didn't fully put everyone on blast in a well formatted forum post after watching the match.

You guys did well with what you had. I just didn't think storm was the deciding factor, over the roaming bh who was carrying their team.

[Drunkenvalley]

On a completely different note, is there any particular reason Dragon Knight players don't do Deso builds? I was just in a game where I had the casual idea that, well, I wanted damage. And I want to punch tower. Is there something I'm missing in this? Off the top of my head, people don't build much UAMs on him at all.

[Deleted]

I think its because they rather get a Helm of the Dominator early and turn it into a satanic later on. Atleast thats what i do, Dominator + Maelstrom into AC. Works well in most of my games.

[EqualWin]

I still think that tiny+techies combo much better

that's so dota 1 dude, now its tusk + techies.

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On a completely different note, is there any particular reason Dragon Knight players don't do Deso builds? I was just in a game where I had the casual idea that, well, I wanted damage. And I want to punch tower. Is there something I'm missing in this? Off the top of my head, people don't build much UAMs on him at all.

he needs to be tanky, his dmg to towers is already okay with his ult. getting something to initiate (sb/blink) plus bkb, if u want dmg early u can go for armlet. AC to be even more tanky and then CRIT/MKB-Satanic.

[Drunkenvalley]

@Comburo: Getting Helm for Satanic later I understand, but all in all I just flat out don't think I've seen Desolator at all. Mostly all DK builds seem to be Shadowblade -> BKB as well.

@EqualWin: I know these things, albeit the concept of building DK to be even tankier seems semi-redundant. You want BKB, most cores of that caliber do, but from my perspective with his 2.8 strength per level, the huge armor gain and health regen from his passive he's already pretty solid. BKB doesn't come across as "first item" exactly.

From where I stand it makes sense to build some amount of damage early, because there's no real point in being tanky if you're not hurting anyone. And while his tower damage is okay versus towers, I don't see why this should stop you from considering an item that gives a pretty significant boost to that tower-murder rate.

Armlet makes sense though, I'll admit. That's a neat alternative. Crystalys might also be neat if you mean to build a Daedalus anyway.

On AC, mkb, satanic... most of those aren't exactly items you rush. An AC already costs 1750 gold more than the MKB and provides attack speed and minus aura only in terms of damage it gives you. Similarly, Satanic and MKB are similarly a fair amount more expensive.

To be plain, I understand that there are some existing builds that're popular, but I'm just not very compelled to say they're such a go-to that a Deso build shouldn't exist out there.

[EqualWin]

deso is good, but i think there are better items for him, like armlet.. a common build is treads sb armlet bkb. ac + crit late game. glimmer cape instead of sb is also good, you dont need to get bkb that fast.



anyway I've never tried deso on him, plus anything can work like bigdaddy said. heh

[Drunkenvalley]

I'm well aware of it. Mostly my point is not so much "why is deso not picked up all the time," but rather "why isn't there a deso build," because the stats on DK's page has Deso picked up 15k times in all recorded games, which is about the same as number of times someone purchased Tranquil Boots on him.

I tried Deso on him on a whim, and it's still a pretty hefty amount of damage. I picked it up at the time in that game because nothing was seriously killing me as it was, I had a midas, my attack speed was pretty fair, but my damage was low. And I was mostly spending time punching towers and stuff.

[PizzaSHARK]

If I did know anything about dota, I'd say that drunkenvalleys statement about shutting down his potential before he reaches it is the exact mindset you need to have to stop heroes like storm. It's what people do when I storm mid. The same thing is required for SF, tinker, etc. They have no escapes, but are incredibly strong if they are left unchecked.

And they spring right back up the second you stop sitting on them, as we've witnessed in dozens of pro games in 6.84. You can't sit on them all game - you have to push towers, you have to contest Roshan, your own cores need to be farming to keep up with their cores, your supports need to be stacking camps and trying to find time to get their lvl 6 and their bits of gold in unoccupied lanes so they can keep up with enemy supports or get the item they need to not feed aggressively.

You can spend 15 minutes shitting on SS and when you stop so you can focus on catching up with the rest of the enemy team, SS is running around with core items 5 mins later like nothing happened. Same with SF. Same with Lesh. Same with QoP. Same with Lina. The only difference is that SS has a guaranteed escape button, the rest can actually be ganked.

not even close. Yes exactly!!! you shut down storm, you shut down the game. that's why lysah went orchid first weaver. she assumed she'd have competent initiation/play from either axe or tide.

sup eul's

[Drunkenvalley]

Ludicrous exaggeration at the very minimum here, Pizza. He farms fast, but you don't shit on storm all morning then find him suddenly having 800 GPM for the next 5 minutes.

If you want to suggest people are trolling, you should at least be vaguely anchored to the ground when you whine about something being OP. This just reminds me of people talking about PL as if he was literally sitting in base while illusions are farming all corners of the map.

But like I mentioned, the biggest problem for Storm is that without mana he is essentially a sort of okay right-clicker. Force him to spend mana unnecessarily a lot and you're already shutting him down pretty fucking hard for most of the game.

[Lysah]

AM has very little ability to recover from a bad start.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1679770404
pfff
AM is one of the best heroes in dota atm
His ult is always godly against the current meta of mana hog heroes

that's why lysah went orchid first weaver. she assumed she'd have competent initiation/play from either axe or tide.

I don't really take into account my team when I see heroes like Storm, I just assume "go orchid/sheep or lose the game." Orchid worked, too, from the posts it sounds like you watched the replay, so I'm sure you can see how many times I stopped SF ult with it, and I did get a kill on Storm once or twice with it, but it's just way too easy for him to jump on heroes like CM and instakill them and then zip away. The only way you can really "counter" this is, like I said, never leave towers unless you're in a group of 5. Storm's ability to exert that much global presence simply by being in the game is the issue.

Everyone's answer to Storm is "just play around him lel." That's exactly the problem, enemy picks Storm and now you have to play a very, very specific game of DotA to even have a chance at beating him, and meanwhile they still have 4 more picks.

Track gold is definitely a big reason we lost that game, I knew the game was probably over when I saw my team get 4 wiped bot while I was farming top. Can't stop feeders
Even still, it's absurd that Storm can jump on the most farmed hero on the team and kill them before his stun wears off, and you can't react in time to stop it because he Orchid's while he's mid ult. If they removed his ability to use items while invulnerable he would probably instantly be balanced, that's the worst offender of them all. Of course, a lot of very small tweaks would fundamentally fix him, but that's right up there on the list of things that really piss me off.

[Longview]

just jungle his lane ward..

[EqualWin]

just ward his lane!

[Drunkenvalley]

Etc

Err, are either of those quotes actually mine or what? I'm fairly sure the second one is Hermani, and I don't even remember seeing the first.

[Lysah]

Err, are either of those quotes actually mine or what? I'm fairly sure the second one is Hermani, and I don't even remember seeing the first.

First is Pizza second is lilo or whatever his name is. Weird that they both showed up as you. Probably some bug with quote+

[Drunkenvalley]

Everyone's answer to Storm is "just play around him lel." That's exactly the problem, enemy picks Storm and now you have to play a very, very specific game of DotA to even have a chance at beating him, and meanwhile they still have 4 more picks.

Do you really? You mind the gap, and that's about it, isn't it? Like if we're talking about an Orchid-first Storm, he can't really go much further than two-three screens from full to zero mana at that point from what I'm aware, and even one screen is going to dramatically reduce what he can do without having to back up asap.

That's where I'm coming from. I just don't see how he's going to magically be able to zip in, kill someone and zip out without someone being pretty majorly out of position in general.

[Lysah]

Do you really? You mind the gap, and that's about it, isn't it? Like if we're talking about an Orchid-first Storm, he can't really go much further than two-three screens from full to zero mana at that point from what I'm aware, and even one screen is going to dramatically reduce what he can do without having to back up asap.

That's where I'm coming from. I just don't see how he's going to magically be able to zip in, kill someone and zip out without someone being pretty majorly out of position in general.

He doesn't need much mana to zip out, soul ring activation is usually enough mana to get away from your team. Let's not forget he only needs to go 300 units up a hill or through some trees and he's home free. You imply that it takes him more than 200 mana to escape from a bad situation, but even a 600 range blink is enough to escape most heroes.

[Deleted]

The Main Event predictions can now be filled in. They literally copy pasted the Qualifier ones, they even forgot to adjust them. It still says "In the Qualifier"

[RobertoCarlos]

how do you guys sleep at night?



I guess I'm no better.

Lol. One shoting walrus punch is so funny. That game screams pub stomp.

Storm's ult is defiantly OP, any kind of spammable blink is going to be strong. Thats the hero design. Same as it was in dota 1 and Dr Repulsor on heroes of newerth. Watching EG's sumail playing storm spirit highlights the potential of the hero when his passive is fully utilized with his ult and Q. Hes a cool hero. Just seems to be able to bounce back too well from bad starts more than heroes such as a Anti mage or shadow fiend. And thats mostly due to his ultimate and passive moving around the map collecting everything. But hey thats dota. If their carries are farming its never good. Get mana drains/hex hero/scythe/lots and lots of stuns.

[Lysah]

AM would be comparable to Storm if he started the game with battlefury and if blink had zero cooldown.