Shaman lvl 90 talents

[Sarevokcz]

so I was thinking about the Cone ability... What if it interacted with some of the spec specific mechanics? Like with LS stacks, MSW stacks and tidal waves, doing more damage, giving (longer) DoT or HoT or boosted us in another way. Because honestly, plain old Cone of Boring Waves isnt my idea of an interesting or fun ability

[Deleted]

so I was thinking about the Cone ability... What if it interacted with some of the spec specific mechanics? Like with LS stacks, MSW stacks and tidal waves, doing more damage, giving (longer) DoT or HoT or boosted us in another way. Because honestly, plain old Cone of Boring Waves isnt my idea of an interesting or fun ability

This is likely what might happen. I find it hard to believe Blizzard would give us a simple aoe cone that does nothing special as a level 90 talent.

Then again, considering warlocks aoe range increasing talent, I'm not so sure

[Riverness]

For one elementals at this point give 0 benefit to restoration
Having a simple cone attack is pretty underwhelming and by the sound of it also gives 0 benefit for restoration
The last one I could see making it -in some form- as stands it feels really weak and unrewarding for a final talent point

TLDR Every dps shaman would choose the elements no question while resto gets a buff to unleash element.

The fact that they aren't on the MOP talent calc (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...t-calculator#W!) just kind of shows that they slapped some stuff together in game.

I can see that you haven't read the thread before making a post. I understand, 14 pages it a lot..

Blizzard 'improved' talent system because they wanted to increase the power of choice and add fun talents which are all situational. They also worked the cookie cutter talents of cata talent trees in the specs. Why? To make a single talent tree for all three specs.

Now if what you said was true, wouldn't these talents contradict with the intentions of the new talent system?

Please read the quotes I'm putting here from people that posted on the thread before you did.

From page 13:

@ Resto will not get any benefit

Like I explained earlier, we really don't know the details. But I am pretty confident that they will get something out of each talent.
1. Super UE...will work with earthliving weapon, super buff and duration, bigger instant heal.
2. Ele cone....just like pally's talent, will damage enemies or heal allies....maybe bonus effect depending on your imbue like someone suggested
3. Perma Elemental.....Fire ele will do DPS, but what about Earth ele? That will most likely be defensive in nature, and maybe have new abiliites to heal or shield allies

From page 8:

Yea, pretty sure they will have some benefit for Resto.

-UE obviously will cause of the Earthliving imbue. My guess is it will give a stronger instant heal, stronger buff, and last for next 2 spells instead of just 1.
-For the cone attack, my guess is again damage on enemies infront of you, or heal allies infront of you. Like pally's light of dawn....and similar dual dmg/healing of pally talents like holy prism.
-And for ele, earth will support/heal while fire will do damage.

Also from page 8:

Well as resto goes, supercharged UE will obviously work with that; about cone we don't really know enough to speculate, could be something like Light of Dawn (..nghhh..) and as for elementals, they could maybe make 50% of damage done by Fire Ele heal an ally and have a PW: Barrier like effect that would reduce all spell damage taken by 8% for 5 seconds, while Earth Ele would have a castable (another) Earth Shield and do a PW:B version of physical damage reduction by ~8% for 5 seconds (as well as a taunt). There, now that ability is awesome for restoration too.

And some other person said something about the fire elemental healing with 'cauterize like ability'.

More and more in the pages you haven't read, my friend

People are only speculating, of course, but if Blizzard didn't have any ideas for these talents for restoration, they wouldn't have made them.

[rogas]

from a elemental pve standpoint:

If we're really gonna have this lev 90 FE option, then the lev 45 'Call of the Elements' option becomes less attractive .... Since most elementals would have used this ability to lenghten the FE uptime ...


While i would love to have a perm FE, i start to dought this is the right road ahead ...


Think it would be better if they changed this FE talent to something in the line of .... your fire elemental will do triple damage for the whole duration it's up ...


this would give us some cool gameplay; instead of a boring permanent FE-Pet; and would give us the same dps boost ...

[Riverness]

from a elemental pve standpoint:

If we're really gonna have this lev 90 FE option, then the lev 45 'Call of the Elements' option becomes less attractive .... Since most elementals would have used this ability to lenghten the FE uptime ...

There are examples where dps players contribute to the healing (with healing cooldowns, damage reduction cooldowns etc). Now that we get all these utility totems that talent can prove useful. I would understand that you want to use the powerful cooldown for all the totems, but hey, we don't get everything we want the way we want them.. Also we need to wait till beta starts for the full talents. (still subject to change..)

[Deleted]

Oh my, shamans are just too easy to please..

The elemental AI is a thing that should have been fixed ages ago anyway, now they bake it into a Lvl 90 talent and everybody is freaking out in joy.
Actually, improved elemental AI is something that shamans should have got on top of new Lvl 90 talents and not as Lvl 90 talent.
It's just too essential (for the ele spec at least) to be a talent option. It's a joke that they waste a lvl 90 talent spot for a thing that the class needed anyway...

Make elemental AI baseline and give us a new lvl 90 talent, one that's equally useful for all 3 specs.

[zulzz]

im going to call this one a hoax actually, after having read the thing a few times.

Shaman

I checked the shaman first because I play a shaman main. I wanted to check to see if the level 90 talents were in, and by golly, they were! Our premade characters were only level 85, so I couldn't test them out, but I did write 'em down for you.

One supercharges your Unleash Elements to provide a much better bonus for each imbue type.
Another removes the cooldown on your Fire and Earth Elemental Totems and allows you to control them.
And the last is a blast of elemental energy in a cone on a 15-second cooldown.

Bear in mind that talents are still being worked on, and these may not be final. I also may not have remembered the nuances of each. We couldn't take screenshots, so this is the best you'll get until Blizzard updates the talent calculator.

Also of note: Totems are no longer listed as separate spells in your spellbook. There's an expandable button for each kind of totem, and you can pull totems from there if you want to put specific ones on your bar.

I says his main is a shaman, yet the only thing he did was to write the shortest description of a spell you could ever get, that is not the detail you get from a person who is the first AND only to uncover his mains level 90 talents, even though he was lvl 85 he would still bother getting some numbers for numbercrunchers to get the theorycraft wheel running with actually numbers.

and lets face it, these 3 talents are no brainers for anyone who ever shared a thought of being a shaman in cataclysm and anyone could easily come up with those.

[Manu9]

Wouldn't making casting the Elementals put a CD for it's Duration on Wolves and vice versa juts fix the bar problem? as in, making us unable to use them together.

[Protoman]

While we're talking about resources, I think maelstrom would be a good resource for enhancement. Change maelstrom procs so that it increases damage with 20% for each application. This way you could replace the searing flames mechanic for lava lash. It could possibly be overpowered for lightning bolt, chain lightning and our heals but I still think it's something they should consider. It would also solve our problem with target switching.
I've also been thinking about lava lash's spreading of flame shock dots and I'd rather have stormstrike do this and keep lava lash as just a hard hitting attack.

Making feral spirit into permanent pets is an idea I used to be against but I've changed my mind. Balance it's abilities so that they're in line with other classes stuns etc. What I'd do about the heal they provide is to remove their taunt ability and change it into a Feral frenzy skill:
Gives Feral spirits' auto attack their heal and add in the tier 13 4-set bonus. Have it last for something like 20-45 sec.

I definitely want to see MW5 become top priority again. I'm not sure buffing it's damage is the right way to go about it. Too much increase in LB/CL damage might mean a nerf elsewhere, and more dependence on MW5 for our overall damage, which will hurt us in PVP since we use heals/hex with MW5 alot more. I think if we have a talent that reduces cds of our more powerful cds like spirit wolves, ele totems, blust, or ascendence by consuming a full MW5 stack....plus maybe a small buff in damage, like 5% for 5 stacks, that would make MW5 top priority without changing our overall damage to the point they have to nerf something else.

I am very against a perma wolf pet. I do not want to be a pet class, and it will only result in more dependence on the pet to do optimal damage, which is a hassle. We already micromanage our totems, we don't need a pet as well. Would rather see Feral spirits buffed, damage and scaling fixed, scale with haste and crit not just AP, and increase the stun duration to 4-5 sec since its on a 2 min cd.

Oh my, shamans are just too easy to please..

The elemental AI is a thing that should have been fixed ages ago anyway, now they bake it into a Lvl 90 talent and everybody is freaking out in joy.
Actually, improved elemental AI is something that shamans should have got on top of new Lvl 90 talents and not as Lvl 90 talent.
It's just too essential (for the ele spec at least) to be a talent option. It's a joke that they waste a lvl 90 talent spot for a thing that the class needed anyway...

Make elemental AI baseline and give us a new lvl 90 talent, one that's equally useful for all 3 specs.

I agree that full control over the Elementals should be something that goes baseline regardless of the talent. For the 1 min we can summon them, we should get a pet bar that at the very least gives us the standard 3 pet controls, passive defensive and offensive...even if they will autocast all their abilities in cd form. The talent should let us have them as perma pets, with no cd so we can summon at any time, and let us control their abilities or choose to autocast them, as well as maybe give them 1 or 2 extra abilities.

im going to call this one a hoax actually, after having read the thing a few times.

I says his main is a shaman, yet the only thing he did was to write the shortest description of a spell you could ever get, that is not the detail you get from a person who is the first AND only to uncover his mains level 90 talents, even though he was lvl 85 he would still bother getting some numbers for numbercrunchers to get the theorycraft wheel running with actually numbers.

and lets face it, these 3 talents are no brainers for anyone who ever shared a thought of being a shaman in cataclysm and anyone could easily come up with those.

Well, the guy that wrote the article is legit. He blogs about Shaman all the time, so I believe him when he says its his main. But I am a little annoyed at how vague the details are. Even if I had only 5 min to play the Shaman, being a Shaman myself I would have gone straight for the lvl 90 talents, and memorized them completely. He was able to recall several druid minor glyphs....but not the exact wording of the Shaman talents?

But you never know, there might not have been any more detail then that. Doesn't seem like Blizz has really finalized our Shaman talents yet. These could very well be placeholders. I think the super ULE and cone attack are probably legit, but as I explained earlier the perma Ele just sounds too good to be true. Seems like it would require alot of work on their part, and also I feel like I have read before that they didn't want to give every class a pet, would make classes too similar to each other, and the pet ele was more a signature of frost mages not Shaman, who have their totems.

We really need to see the updated calculator!!

[Radux]

I definitely want to see MW5 become top priority again. I'm not sure buffing it's damage is the right way to go about it. Too much increase in LB/CL damage might mean a nerf elsewhere, and more dependence on MW5 for our overall damage, which will hurt us in PVP since we use heals/hex with MW5 alot more. I think if we have a talent that reduces cds of our more powerful cds like spirit wolves, ele totems, blust, or ascendence by consuming a full MW5 stack....plus maybe a small buff in damage, like 5% for 5 stacks, that would make MW5 top priority without changing our overall damage to the point they have to nerf something else.

Well you could easily solve something like not changing LB base. Just have MSW in a similar fashion as the T13 2 piece bonus except benefit all things (minus Hex since that wouldn't really work). For instance:

"When you deal damage with a melee weapon, you have a chance to reduce the cast time of your next Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Hex, or any healing spell, and increase its damage/healing by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 30 sec."

That basically means a base LB at 5 stacks will do 2x damage, meaning a Crit LB (yay for double crit) will do ~4x damage (modified by Mastery, of course).

So my assumption would be something like that could push LB to top priority, increase Haste scaling (due to LB being awesome at that point), Crit scaling (since ~4x LB damage would be awesome) and still have Mastery be awesome (again.. increasing base LB by a bunch).

Not only that, but it would help Enh in PvP with Healing Surge since they'll be losing GHW.

Obviously I just kinda made up the number for the increased benefit -- something like that would need to be tested/balanced accordingly. But it allows you to push LB to top priority without having to nerf it for Elemental or something like that.

[Orrion]

Oh my, shamans are just too easy to please..

The elemental AI is a thing that should have been fixed ages ago anyway, now they bake it into a Lvl 90 talent and everybody is freaking out in joy.
Actually, improved elemental AI is something that shamans should have got on top of new Lvl 90 talents and not as Lvl 90 talent.
It's just too essential (for the ele spec at least) to be a talent option. It's a joke that they waste a lvl 90 talent spot for a thing that the class needed anyway...

Make elemental AI baseline and give us a new lvl 90 talent, one that's equally useful for all 3 specs.

I already said it should be baseline. What do I win?

It's not like that's a new thing for Shaman, though. We've gotten things in the past as talents that should have been baseline. Why should Mists be any different?

[Teriz]

Let's hope that Blizzard at least puts our Level 90 talents up before BETA begins.

[Protoman]

Let's hope that Blizzard at least puts our Level 90 talents up before BETA begins.

Apparently its starting tomorrow so by the end of the day we'll have beta patch notes and an updated talent calculator.

Well you could easily solve something like not changing LB base. Just have MSW in a similar fashion as the T13 2 piece bonus except benefit all things (minus Hex since that wouldn't really work). For instance:

"When you deal damage with a melee weapon, you have a chance to reduce the cast time of your next Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Hex, or any healing spell, and increase its damage/healing by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 30 sec."

That basically means a base LB at 5 stacks will do 2x damage, meaning a Crit LB (yay for double crit) will do ~4x damage (modified by Mastery, of course).

Yea, thats basically the original idea to buff it by increasing damage with each stack, and healing of course. But will that really make it top priority over LL as well? It might but I'm worried that huge damage increase would mean a nerf somewhere else, or we rely on the damage too much and so when we heal/hex in PVP we lose a big chunk of our overall damage. The buff to healing will still be good of course, but I want most of our damage coming from our strikes and shocks.

The suggestion to have each 5stack of MW5 reduce the cd of one of our bigger cd's to me seems like it would also increase the priority without actually having to buff the damage, even above SS and LL.....because then we would want to use it asap and take advantage of every full stack so we can use our cd's faster.

Say each MW5 consumed would reduce the cd of Feral spirits by 3 sec, and Ascendance by 5 sec......we might be able to get 1 min feral spirits, and 2 min ascendance.

[Radux]

But will that really make it top priority over LL as well?

No one knows. They did some playing around with weapon damage modifiers (supposedly keeping damage roughly the same). And a similar thing could be said about LB/CL - we don't know numbers or scaling factors or whether they're the same or have been changed. Something like that could be mathed out once we see some numbers in beta.

That's the reason why I mentioned this part:

Obviously I just kinda made up the number for the increased benefit -- something like that would need to be tested/balanced accordingly. But it allows you to push LB to top priority without having to nerf it for Elemental or something like that.

That's why a % modifier for the increased damage healing is great. It plays a similar role as current things like Shamanism: a tuning knob for minor tweaks.

[Northy]

Oh my, shamans are just too easy to please..

The elemental AI is a thing that should have been fixed ages ago anyway, now they bake it into a Lvl 90 talent and everybody is freaking out in joy.
Actually, improved elemental AI is something that shamans should have got on top of new Lvl 90 talents and not as Lvl 90 talent.
It's just too essential (for the ele spec at least) to be a talent option. It's a joke that they waste a lvl 90 talent spot for a thing that the class needed anyway...

Make elemental AI baseline and give us a new lvl 90 talent, one that's equally useful for all 3 specs.

All of what you say brings Earthquake to mind. When Earthquake was plugged into our tree I was very upset, but I was the only Shaman who appeared to be, everyone else was blindly happy (derpderp finallyanAoE derpderp). You are correct, Shamans are way too easy to please.

[iadamson]

With Fire Elemental becoming pet.

If its still not totem bound.

Searing totem will be pretty lonely...

[Manu9]

Btw, Fire ele will proc searing flames, check http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...nds?p=16052074

[Northy]

Btw, Fire ele will proc searing flames, check http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...nds?p=16052074

So Ele and Resto shamans dont gain much benefit from the pet?

[Radux]

So Ele and Resto shamans dont gain much benefit from the pet?

Yeah Resto still doesn't really get anything, but Elemental has always gotten benefit from using FE. This just means that Enhancement can actually use it without gimping their damage via Searing-Totem-only-way-to-stack-Searing-Flames.

[jace5869]

What is should be is:
"removes the cooldown on your Feral Spirit, or Fire and Earth Elemental Totems and allows you to control them."* I would love to walk around with 2 wolves around me at all times, but that would be too overpowered.

Hardly. Even if we had perma wolves now we wouldnnt be op.. they just suck so bad.