The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Zaxus]

To make sure you don't forget to change your stance back you could create a Taunt macro like this:

#show Provoke
/cast [stance:2] Stance of the Sturdy Ox
/cast Provoke

Then you'd only have to worry about switching manually when other tank dies or is ported away/etc. Maybe it's not ideal but would help remove a lot of "oops" moments.

[Raider321]

It is. You must not damage Shek'Zeer too much, otherwishe phase 3 will come too soon. Most guilds may now have enough gear to be forced to stop dpsing her to give healers some time to breathe between the last dissonance field and the beginning of phase 3.

Everything a Brewmaster has to do on this fight is done better if you stack Shuffle by not switching to Tiger Stance.

You say you play better than others because you think you do something more. Actually you do something wrong. You just prove that Brewmasters have the potential to be played in a wrong way if they make mistakes when they think about how they can improve the chances of killing the boss. You focus on one (actually fictive) advantage and forget about all the downsides. You're just helping Shek'Zeer kill your raid if you switch to Tiger Stance.

Can you please go into detail and explain what's bad? not just "You helping Shek'zeer kill your raid if you switch to tiger stance" - You seem to know something I don't.

You basically switch a little survivability when already having much more than the rest of the raid for higher dps, whats bad about it? I don't have any problem switching back to Ox stance and get shuffle up before taunting.

Also we don't stop dpsing and we only do one add phase.

[Alucin]

Does ox stance give a + threat modifier? I have issues with threat after someone taunts off (regular co-tank has not shown the last few raids and the fury warrior has had to go prot with crappy gear - although it happens with a few tanks, particularly the under geared). If tiger kept vengeance and lowered threat, that may stop me using a cancel vengeance macro and only using jab/bok....

...or moving out of melee range altogether...

[Wreckage827]

Can you please go into detail and explain what's bad? not just "You helping Shek'zeer kill your raid if you switch to tiger stance" - You seem to know something I don't.

You basically switch a little survivability when already having much more than the rest of the raid for higher dps, whats bad about it? I don't have any problem switching back to Ox stance and get shuffle up before taunting.

Also we don't stop dpsing and we only do one add phase.

I find all of your posts to be lacking in hard evidence. Provide a character or guild name, or logs otherwise I find everything you are saying to be utter nonsense. Looking at your past posts you have a history of causing issues in threads with nothing backing up your claims.

So for now everyone shouldn't even pay attention to you until you can provide solid evidence.

I think I found you: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n/Larra/simple

You have "pretty" good logs, but you are also in full heroic gear and I am about 2k dps under you on some fights using a normal 2 hander.

Your empress dps is lacking if you indeed are this person, but this could also be based on your strat and the sheer fact you are swapping to tiger stance.

20% increased damage, but you lose Keg Smash I don't buy 20% increased damage is better than Keg Smash.

[Raider321]

I find all of your posts to be lacking in hard evidence. Provide a character or guild name, or logs otherwise I find everything you are saying to be utter nonsense. Looking at your past posts you have a history of causing issues in threads with nothing backing up your claims.

So for now everyone shouldn't even pay attention to you until you can provide solid evidence.

I'm not sure what the rules are with copy and pasting whole posts but if you head over to Elitistjerk's thread and look at post #10 and you'll see calculations from another player saying the exact same thing. It's a dps increase switching to Tiger stance while solo target dpsing.

How much of an increase is most likely different depending on gear etc but it is definitely a dps boost.


edit: yes

Check the logs and youll see that I go into the fields and use crackling jade lightning to speed it up. I don't know why you're stuck at Empress so much. I am simply trying to explain that at all encounters when you're not tanking you will increase your damage done when solo targetting by switching stances.

Weapon hardly matters when coming to dps. what matters the most is tactics and cheesy stuff. The best encounter to really check these things would be Will of Emperor if anything but I don't do that on my main anymore so I can't prove it there.

[Wreckage827]

I'm not sure what the rules are with copy and pasting whole posts but if you head over to Elitistjerk's thread and look at post #10 and you'll see calculations from another player saying the exact same thing. It's a dps increase switching to Tiger stance while solo target dpsing.

How much of an increase is most likely different depending on gear etc but it is definitely a dps boost.


edit: yes

Check the logs and youll see that I go into the fields and use crackling jade lightning to speed it up. I don't know why you're stuck at Empress so much. I am simply trying to explain that at all encounters when you're not tanking you will increase your damage done when solo targetting by switching stances.

Weapon hardly matters when coming to dps. what matters the most is tactics and cheesy stuff. The best encounter to really check these things would be Will of Emperor if anything but I don't do that on my main anymore so I can't prove it there.

Will of The Emperor would be a bad choice because your dps is based on how long the fight goes. The longer the fight the more Opportunistic Strikes the tanks get.

Weapons have a huge factor on dps as long as you are doing the priority/rotation list correctly.

You have a prot paladin who tanks with you, and pulls twice the threat of my Warrior. If I swapped to tiger stance I would easily pull off of my warrior, even now I have to declick vengeance and stop attacking for 8 seconds once he taunts.

Edit: I would love to target dummy dps race against you for a 10 million damage in the same gear. You in Tiger and me in Ox.

[Raider321]

Will of The Emperor would be a bad choice because your dps is based on how long the fight goes. The longer the fight the more Opportunistic Strikes the tanks get.

Weapons have a huge factor on dps as long as you are doing the priority/rotation list correctly.

You have a prot paladin who tanks with you, and pulls twice the threat of my Warrior. If I swapped to tiger stance I would easily pull off of my warrior, even now I have to declick vengeance and stop attacking for 8 seconds once he taunts.

True, didn't think about the strikes - Really what would be the best is Will of Emperor without using the strike!

Honestly, you should never be removing vengeance, that's just terrible, sorry. If anything when switching to Tiger stance you will be making less threat because Keg smash is really what does all of it. Jab+BoK in tiger stance and you will never get aggro, guaranteed.

---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 12:08 AM ----------

Edit: I would love to target dummy dps race against you for a 10 million damage in the same gear. You in Tiger and me in Ox.

Try it yourself, just stand correctly so that Keg smash only hits 1 dummy

Tiger will be higher dps, guaranteed!

I don't think my gear is that great for ranking either. I should be more orientated towards crit instead of all the haste I've got atm

[Asmalya]

20% increased damage, but you lose Keg Smash I don't buy 20% increased damage is better than Keg Smash.

You lose Keg Smash and Energy Reg from Ox Stance too in trade for 20% straight dmg.
Not sure if its really worth the trouble...

[Wreckage827]

True, didn't think about the strikes - Really what would be the best is Will of Emperor without using the strike!

Honestly, you should never be removing vengeance, that's just terrible, sorry. If anything when switching to Tiger stance you will be making less threat because Keg smash is really what does all of it. Jab+BoK in tiger stance and you will never get aggro, guaranteed.

---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 12:08 AM ----------



Try it yourself, just stand correctly so that Keg smash only hits 1 dummy

Tiger will be higher dps, guaranteed!

I don't think my gear is that great for ranking either. I should be more orientated towards crit instead of all the haste I've got atm

It really isn't Keg Smash all the time. It is a mixture of damage and healing that goes out. If I run over my GoTO orbs and have a chi wave out while white swinging I can pull the boss back.

Edit: Paladins are a better offtank for me while I am tanking bcause they too can heal while dealing damage. Warriors damage on many of their abilities are being buffed in 5.2 so I doubt I will have any major issues when that patch hits in terms of threat.

[Deleted]

Weapons have a huge factor on dps as long as you are doing the priority/rotation list correctly.

No, weapon dps is a minor part of your dps in raids, because you have quite a lot of Vengeance, and the AP scaling of Brewmaster abilities make weapon dps a nearly negligible factor. As i wrote earlier, switching from a 463 polearm to 517 Gao Rei is an 8% damage increase if you have 100k Vengeance and 30k Attack Power.

[siccora]

Did somebody here already tanked the windlord on hero and get smashed in the face so hard that another tank was putted in your spot? i was forced to play WW. But our DK also got some pretty spikes in his face (besides his HPS were 70k.....)

so my question, is it possible to get pwned instantly with my CD already on CD? is it me or our healers bad? we played with two. druide and priest. yesterday was better with the dk tank but we swapped to 3 healers pala, priest, shaman......

[NeitherDoI]

but we swapped to 3 healers pala, priest, shaman......

This.

Both chaman and pal can largely buff your tank's survavibility (HP buff and absorb) in a way a single druid cannot.

[siccora]

yeah, i thought so. i was just really pissed.
"monk is so squishy...lets go with a DK instead...and btw we change to 3 healer...." *bitches*

but still, some tips for that fight?
what i did was Keg Smash, Wind, Jab, Palm, Crane, Guard and then Smash on CD with BoK or Wind for that Shuffle Buff. But my Stagger is mostly instant red all the time and i cannot clear it as fast as i want to because i think shuffle uptime is more important. am i wrong? we kill the first 3 adds pretty fast so i pop my CDs when there are 6 adds on my.

[Kisho]

I was tanking Wind Lord heroic a couple nights ago too, and I too got switched out for another tank class. Buuuuuuttttt, I'm going to be tanking it again tonight. Here's what happened:

Before I start, we're 2 healing it, 2 tanking it. At first, I was on adds and the Paladin was on the boss.

For the first few wipes, I was tanking. Sometimes (not every time, but sometimes) the cause of the wipe was me dying. So halfway through the wipes one of the healers asks if we can try it with the Paladin tank on the adds, see how it goes. I'm fine with it, may as well give it a go.

Not going to lie, healing him was probably easier. It's just how the class is designed, after all. He's stacking stamina, so is a very reliable tank to heal. Fair enough. However, we came across another problem as we went along: people started taking a lot more damage from Rain of Blades. Also, the Paladin tank still died a couple times. The adds also were taking that little bit longer to die.

Essentially there's 3 issues at play here.

1. People dying to RoB: it could be due to losing focus, or simple human error... But one factor may be our Ox Statue. Checking logs, the difference in HPS between me tanking adds and tanking the boss was about 10,000 HPS (I went down from 40,000 to 30,000). It's fairly significant. It wasn't a huge issue and the extra shields probably aren't necessary.... However, we still have 2 issues to go.

2. Lower DPS on the adds. Basically I was doing roughly 200,000 less DPS when tanking the boss, most of which was add DPS (went down from 500,000 to 300,000). The Paladin tank's DPS didn't go up by enough to cover this deficit either. It essentially meant that adds took that little bit longer to die, so there was more time where 6 adds were up at once, more tank damage/stuff to interrupt/dispel, etc. Again, by itself not a huge deal. We could manage. But there's still 1 more issue to go!

3. Paladin tank still died anyway: so after the raid we opened up a thread on the guild forums and discussed the boss, as we usually do. We checked logs, tried to figure out what was going wrong... Turns out both tanks (when tanking adds, not the boss) were getting hit by whirling blade. That, coupled with the already pretty intense incoming damage, meant it was too much burst to be healed through. Derp.

So we're going back with improved positioning, so hopefully the Whirling Blade will no longer be an issue. This should mean I am able to tank the boss successfully, which is ideal due to the vastly increased DPS as well as the extra healing via guards. We're also going back with improved knowledge of the fight. Or rather, knowledge of the moments when cooldowns will be needed, as well as a better idea of where to position the boss and adds.

So, when to use cooldowns? What to watch out for? Depends on how you do the boss. We trap the 3 Amber-Trappers because our raid comp allows us to do that, but it does mean we have certain things to watch out for. So when to use cooldowns?

1. When 6 adds are up. Easily figured out, that one! Obviously damage will be fairly intense during this period of time.

2. When the adds and boss have 2 stacks of Quickening. While our Shadow Priest is dispelling as fast as she can, sometimes they'll get 2 stacks. This means a lot more incoming damage, so it would be good to time your cooldowns for this moment. It shouldn't last long so a Guard or a 15 stack EB should get you through (or Fortifying Brew if necessary). But it's definitely worth watching out for: be sure to track buffs on your target.

Those are the two primary moments where cooldowns would be vital. We can do a lot to survive on this fight, and reduce the damage we take as much as possible. But we should also look to maximising DPS, so more shields go out on the raid, so they take less damage, so the healers can focus on us more.

So Siccora, to specifically answer your questions: Yes, Shuffle is much more important than PB. Keep Shuffle up 100% of the time, it's utterly vital. But, from there you will most likely need to PB a lot, so you probably won't get many Chi Waves out. You definitely won't get time to use Breath of Fire, if you were.

This is one fight that requires very high haste. We simply need it to handle all the PBs we need to do. I remember dying to a 63k tick of Stagger at one point because I was just a little too slow with purifying it. Kinda sucked. But Shuffle is still far more important, so we simply need a ton of haste to handle all the Chi usage. High haste also means more SCKs, which will mean more DPS. AoE fights are fun like that.

This probably turned into quite a bit of a rambling post, for which I apologise. Hope it all helps though. I just happened to be at the same point in progression so I've been thinking about Wind Lord HC a lot, haha.

[Trendy-Ideology]

I was tanking Wind Lord heroic a couple nights ago too, and I too got switched out for another tank class. Buuuuuuttttt, I'm going to be tanking it again tonight. Here's what happened:

[snip]

This probably turned into quite a bit of a rambling post, for which I apologise. Hope it all helps though. I just happened to be at the same point in progression so I've been thinking about Wind Lord HC a lot, haha.

Some useful tips in there as we'll be embarking on this journey soon.

Also reawakens some annoyance at people not understanding just how crucial and significant BM DPS is on fights...

Also JW but why are you running the bottle instead of the dmf agi trink?

I just got terror off my coin, and I'm using it, and xuen, and I have the 489 onuse agi trink just kinda sitting in my bags now, and I was debating if xuen should stay or go, but ultimately I recalled reading that it was BiS nonheroic so I'm keeping it on for now, but if there's a justification in using the bottle instead I'd switch for whatever gains it got me.

[Alucin]

cool, windlord is next for us too - so good to have this stuff.. only issue is i'm gonna be the adds tank so i'll have to work through this.
keep in mind, if you weren't already, that rushing jade wind applies shuffle. i always forget that bit.

[Deleted]

yeah, i thought so. i was just really pissed.
"monk is so squishy...lets go with a DK instead...and btw we change to 3 healer...." *bitches*

but still, some tips for that fight?
what i did was Keg Smash, Wind, Jab, Palm, Crane, Guard and then Smash on CD with BoK or Wind for that Shuffle Buff. But my Stagger is mostly instant red all the time and i cannot clear it as fast as i want to because i think shuffle uptime is more important. am i wrong? we kill the first 3 adds pretty fast so i pop my CDs when there are 6 adds on my.

We basically benched our DK for this encounter because my brewmaster monk is way easier to heal according to our healers (paladin, shaman, disc priest). So your experience baffles me a bit. Usually, I prepot, pop Fortifying Brew, collect all adds with SCK and hit Keg Smash as soon as I get all of them in range. Then I BoK for Shuffle and keep it up for approx. 93% of the time (according to WoL). I purify A LOT and I'd say that this is my #1 priority (uptime of "Heavy Stagger" is always <10%). If I have to choose between keeping Shuffle up or using PB to clear a red stagger debuff, I usually choose PB. As my survivability has never been a problem (even Sha of Fear Thrashs in P2 are fine), I'm a bit sloppy on this but to do it perfectly you should not only look at the color of your stagger debuff but also the amount of damage that is staggered or the amount of damage that hits you per tick and then decide whether to purify or keep shuffle up. Whenever you decide in favor of PB and fear that your shuffle drops, use a CD. In that case, both Guard and Elusive Brew are fine. You should also make sure to react pretty quickly to your moving HP: a well timed Expel Harm heals me for 200k (on average, according to WoL again) and GotOx heals me for approx. 3 mio. HP in total during a fight, usually when I drop low.

Now, this has nothing to do with your survivability, but I find Xuen pretty good on this fight as he does approx. 20 mio. DMG on the Windlord when you pop him during the recklessness phase with bloodlust. That's about 20% of my total damage on the Windlord.

If your healers can't keep up the tanks, then using a different cc-pattern might also be useful. We usually cc 1 Trapper and 2 Healers so that our priest can reliably mass dispel the Quickening buffs. We first kill the trappers (focus one of the 2) then kill the blade masters and finally the healers. By then the boss is down. From our experience a 0-1-2 cc-pattern gives you nice back-to-back recklessness phases and pretty quick and smooth boss kills. We have sticked to this tactic once we realized that we usually never have deaths due to a triple blademaster strike (individual CDs have to be used, though, when targeted by a strike).

[Kisho]

Also JW but why are you running the bottle instead of the dmf agi trink?

Because I'm a slacker.

Nah, I valued the gold more than the trinket, so I've been selling decks instead of using them. I've managed to build up about 75 scrolls of wisdom though, just waiting on getting the inks necessary to craft the cards. May get a deck out of that, may use it. Dunno.

But yeah, it's not due to bottle being better or me knowing something that you don't, I'm just being cheap. :P

[Deleted]

Each stack of quickening adds 35% damage and 35% attack speed, which is effectively 82% more melee damage for 1-stack and 189% extra damage for 2-stacks. Crowd controlling the healers and good dispels are key for tank survival.

[Zonex]

Not your fault in the slightest, you just have very badly coordinated healers. A druid renders stagger dmg useless for the fight, whilst a Disc priest renders recklessness dmg taken completely useless (smite/HF/penance spam).

With all your guards going out, your raid should be full shielded between each rain of blades, and thus its a load off of any healer. On heroic, there is only one instance where its dangerous, and you might drop low (assuming dispels/ purges on the boss are handled correctly); this is when you have all menders + all blademasters + the boss on you. You are going to be taking spiky dmg sometimes. The best thing to do, is not use Guard on CD. With the amount of vengeance you're going to be getting, and heal you need can be handled by a quick strafe (each orb heals for about 80k min). If and when you dip low cuz of RNG, just pop a Guard (itll give you healers about 5-8 seconds to top you up (depending on if you popped EB as well).

You should probably chain CD's as well, start with FB right off the bat, and just ask for pain suppr/ iron bark when he does rain of blades with 6 adds up, those are the only dangerous times, bcuz your staggers goes to INSANE amounts. You also have Symbio = Surv Instincts if you are scared about Rain of Blades dmg and not having any CDs up.

Other than that, boss + 3 adds, is a cake walk, boss by himself is even easier so yea, just scold your healers your something; they suck at communicating with each other.