[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Build Changes Discussion Thread

[Wataurenyew]

The glyph is meant to save you from having to refresh your shield, but in fights where you would have to refresh your shield every 10 sec, you get alot more mana regen so it would be smarter to actually not glyph it.

Are you sure that is what the glyph is meant for? Have you seen a post from Blizz stating such?
Although it is completely reasonable to look at it that way, it could just as easily be argued that the intention of the glyph is to offset the loss of mana regen on fights with little raid damage.

Seems to me like both could actual be the intent of the glyph.
1) To give us more regen on fights where the shield won't proc often.
2) To give those that would rather forgo the tedium of constant refreshing for higher regen on high raid damage fights for a static return instead.


I personally feel that Water Shield is fine when the raid damage isn't so intense that it's knocked off every 10 sec.
It gives us another form of actively keeping our regen up indirectly, since the loss of the shield means we generated mana through damage.
That being said I think that it could probably use a higher ICD on the procs to tone down the refreshing needed on high raid damage fights.

Also, with a static mana pool of 100k the proc on Water Shield seems like it could be a bit OP if the proc'ing on high raid damage fights isn't toned down.
With a proc of 3k at 90, even if the mana pool increased to 200k at 90, it would be a 4.5% mana return for one GCD and no CD.

[Radux]

Been playing around with EotE a little bit in beta (yay invite tonight) for Resto.

Please note: I have not been trying to keep track of my number of casts to figure out the proc rate (at least not tonight).

- I've been spamming Healing Wave on myself -- pre-made character with only Water Shield Active.
- Can Crit independently.
- The EotE proc Crit can proc AA.
- The EotE proc Crit does not give mana back via Resurgence (only the initial non-copy heal).

Will update a bit more once I find more interesting things (also once I find someone to test on to see if EotE is smart -- though I suspect it is not).


EDIT: Seems the ticks from HR do not count as 'direct heals' like they did in early Cataclysm, so they don't benefit from EotE.

[Protoman]

It's much more productive to simply discuss the issues and offer a general solution than it is to go into detail. I'm not trying to moderate, just saying what I have seen work better.

You are probably right, my posts do get a little wordy. But I offer details cause usually when someone says "I don't like this, it should be like this" that comes of as complaining to me, but if they offer some details it shows they thought it thru some and what exactly they had in mind. I dunno, I enjoy detailed posts more then general ones but I agree its a pain to read sometimes.

That said, with your suggestion of more passive regen, that is the exact opposite of what Blizzard is going for in Mists. Along with the static mana pools, they want healers to actively watch their mana pools and use the tools they have to let them do what they need to. One of those things, however silly, is making sure Water Shield is active. I agree we should not have to refresh Water Shield so often but I don't agree to just making it set and forget. Behaving like Lightning Shield does for Elemental, you could have the charges build up rather than deplete, and use those charges to regain mana. You might set and forget Water Shield itself but you will be watching its charges.

Well I think we already have more active regen then any other healer honestly, we have crit heals and TC/LB mechanic. From what I have seen of other healers, they either have a stronger/multiple mana cds, or just alot of effects thru their normal heals that will reduce or remove the mana cost of heals, increase crit/rate/potency of heals, or proc mana regen like the Lifebloom proc for druids or omen of clarity. Paladins also get like 80% regen in combat, and all they gotta do is use Judgement once every min. So strong passive regen is still around.

Your idea for a fulm type stacking mechanic for Water shield is interesting. I assume the charges would not give back mana until you consume them then right? I wouldn't mind something like that either, some sort of mini mana cd that still requires us to pay attention and work towards building stacks.....as long as we don't have to spend gcds refreshing WS all the time.

Protoman, I really love your posts and agree with them! I just don't get how any shaman could be against improving some of the shields' QoL issues. It wouldn't even be a huge buff anyway.

Shamans already have to waste healing output for TC regen, we even lose healing output from using MTT (because Healstream is down for that time, but that's one thing that'll change with MoP if I remember it right + an additional GCD from redropping HST), why should we also have a lot of GCD losses from recasting constantly WS on top of that? Shaman regen is already 'active' enough, when all that other classes have to do is pressing a cd button every 3 mins because all of their other regen sources are mindless and passive.

If Blizz wants active regen models like TC, then they should give them to every class to keep it equal and balanced. At the moment it seems to me like shamans have to work harder for their regen than other classes. Not sure if that will change with MoP, but I hope so.

Well thank you . I was surprised as well to see so many people against the idea, I guess some people still value the extra regen you can get when there is alot of raid damage, and plus with the glyph didn't really see it as an issue anymore. My biggest problem with the glyph was the drawback of totally losing the orb proc via damage. If it was simply a reduced amount of mana from proc, or a longer icd that would have been fine with me. Plus I felt that WS should be improved on without the need for a glyph, even if just making it so you don't have to refresh as often.

I would have much preferred the older model with the 7sec icd and more mana per orb (from wotlk).... least then you might only have to refresh once every 20 sec. Hopefully they go back to that (or 10s icd and even more mana per orb w/ 30s refresh), then you could choose between TWO WS glyphs for either lower icd but less mana/orb, or higher passive mp5 but higher icd. You could still customize your WS with glyphs, but your regular WS would use less GCD's on its own without any glyph.

About your comment on active regen for healers.....I do think we have the most active regen w/ TC, and resurgence requires both an active cast heal and crit proc, unlike say Revitalize from Druids which just procs mana from rejuv or lifebloom.

Seems to me like both could actual be the intent of the glyph.
1) To give us more regen on fights where the shield won't proc often.
2) To give those that would rather forgo the tedium of constant refreshing for higher regen on high raid damage fights for a static return instead.

That being said I think that it could probably use a higher ICD on the procs to tone down the refreshing needed on high raid damage fights.

That's a good point too. It could have been designed for the encounters where you DON'T need to use WS and so don't get much mana back from orbs.....cause I'm not sure if the passive buff offsets those encounters where you end up having to refresh WS alot, the mana you gain there can be pretty significant.

I agree with your comment about increasing the icd though, baseline of course. The old model of WS had a 7sec icd and more mana per orb.....that would be a much better way to have the regular WS as. Back then you might have to refresh once every 20 sec, not 10.

[Endus]

Been playing around with EotE a little bit in beta (yay invite tonight) for Resto.

Please note: I have not been trying to keep track of my number of casts to figure out the proc rate (at least not tonight).

- I've been spamming Healing Wave on myself -- pre-made character with only Water Shield Active.
- Can Crit independently.
- The EotE proc Crit can proc AA.
- The EotE proc Crit does not give mana back via Resurgence (only the initial non-copy heal).

Will update a bit more once I find more interesting things (also once I find someone to test on to see if EotE is smart -- though I suspect it is not).


EDIT: Seems the ticks from HR do not count as 'direct heals' like they did in early Cataclysm, so they don't benefit from EotE.

One of the big things we still need to figure out is if the proc rate is spec-dependent; it would make sense for Enhancement to have a higher proc rate if it's not proccing off autoattacks and Windfury and the like.

The initial testing over at Totemspot.com is still in the very early stages, but it seems to be suggesting a ~6% proc rate. I believe that testing is mostly being done in Resto, though, since it's the only way to avoid Overloads.

And for the love of bacon, it's still under 2000 casts tested, these are NOT conclusive in any way yet, not to mention the numbers could change in a future build.

[Radux]

Yeah. I've basically just been spamming Healing Wave, for the most part, for the last hour or so. I'll probably start noting proc rate tomorrow if I can get some extra time.

EDIT: Though I did take a quick break and went to test AG healing as Elemental. Dear lord if you can pop that during an AoE Phase... SO MUCH HEALING. My screen just filled with numbers. Normally CL spam does enough... but now it's full of green, too.

EDIT2: Stormlash Totem why must your CD be so long. You're ridiculous to try to test.

[reyareya]

just to confirm, ele shams are going to be giving 4 auras in MoP right?

10% spellpower (wrath)
+5 mastery (10% overload for us ele shams)
5% crit (elemental oath?)
5% spell haste (WoA)

[ScizCT]

just to confirm, ele shams are going to be giving 4 auras in MoP right?

10% spellpower (wrath)
+5 mastery (10% overload for us ele shams)
5% crit (elemental oath?)
5% spell haste (WoA)

Losing the crit buff, unfortunately. If they wanted to leave a little of the old shaman buff flexibility flavor around, I'd love to see it left in as an option, exclusive with 5% haste. Likewise for enhance, if they want the spec to bring 10% spellpower, at least give it the option to switch that to 10% attack power.

[reyareya]

Losing the crit buff, unfortunately. If they wanted to leave a little of the old shaman buff flexibility flavor around, I'd love to see it left in as an option, exclusive with 5% haste. Likewise for enhance, if they want the spec to bring 10% spellpower, at least give it the option to switch that to 10% attack power.

aww no more elemental oath for us? ohwell not like we need crit rating as much as we need mastery anyway.

also pretty sure enhancement will get the 10% melee and range AP instead of 10% sp. i cant remember where i read this from but someone confirmed enhancement are getting the 10% ranged and melee attack power buff and resto/ele getting the 10% spellpower instead.

[Protoman]

aww no more elemental oath for us? ohwell not like we need crit rating as much as we need mastery anyway.

also pretty sure enhancement will get the 10% melee and range AP instead of 10% sp. i cant remember where i read this from but someone confirmed enhancement are getting the 10% ranged and melee attack power buff and resto/ele getting the 10% spellpower instead.

You don't have a source for that? That would be pretty big news and I feel like if a blue posted it someone would have picked up on it by now. Did you hear it officially or second hand, and where?

[DeWumpus]

aww no more elemental oath for us? ohwell not like we need crit rating as much as we need mastery anyway.

also pretty sure enhancement will get the 10% melee and range AP instead of 10% sp. i cant remember where i read this from but someone confirmed enhancement are getting the 10% ranged and melee attack power buff and resto/ele getting the 10% spellpower instead.

It would be awesome if we got this. They could even make it a enh only passive
Unleashed Rage: When you are under the influence of burning wrath you get 10% melee AP.

[Cai]

It would be awesome if we got this. They could even make it a enh only passive
Unleashed Rage: When you are under the influence of burning wrath you get 10% melee AP.

If they did that, we would be double dipping from the other AP passives. I think Enh needs to get Unleashed Rage back, just as an option, honestly the 5 Mastery is going to be the default buff we give out if we don't get Unleashed Rage back. Resto/Ele will probably use Wrath/WoA.

[Tharkash]

If they did that, we would be double dipping from the other AP passives. I think Enh needs to get Unleashed Rage back, just as an option, honestly the 5 Mastery is going to be the default buff we give out if we don't get Unleashed Rage back. Resto/Ele will probably use Wrath/WoA.

You don't actually use the buffs right now, they're just always on passives.

As a side note, we don't seem to be granting/receiving the 5% spell haste right now on beta.

[Cai]

You don't actually use the buffs right now, they're just always on passives.

As a side note, we don't seem to be granting/receiving the 5% spell haste right now on beta.

Ah, I guess I misunderstood how they were being implemented. I thought they were going to be a button press to activate and/or to switch to a different one.

So the new buffs are always on, like current passives?

[Deleted]

Anybody been on ptr and checked if Shamanism is sitll there ?

As for the new buffs, i cant see spell haste anywhere

[Tharkash]

Ah, I guess I misunderstood how they were being implemented. I thought they were going to be a button press to activate and/or to switch to a different one.

So the new buffs are always on, like current passives?

Yup. Thing is, and I hope they change this, is that you don't see them as an active buff on you, but you do see them on everybody else as a buff. You are still getting the bonuses (10% sp, +5 mastery) though.

[Radux]

So one big bug/oversight that I've noticed regarding Elemental:

Lava Burst Overload is not benefiting from Elemental Fury's 250% Crit damage modifier. The overload only Crits for 200%.
Lightning Bolt is acting normally and is benefiting.

[Deleted]

Yup. Thing is, and I hope they change this, is that you don't see them as an active buff on you, but you do see them on everybody else as a buff. You are still getting the bonuses (10% sp, +5 mastery) though.

Not sure about that.

Like i said , our spell haste buff is nowhere to be found. Even on group with other players your buffs are 0/8, so no spell haste there.
Its true that you can see the new Burning Wrath and Grace of Air on your passive skill tab on your spellbook but Spell Haste aint there.

Also Shamanism is also not in our passive skills tab nor our Elemental skill page.

[Maios]

Are you reporting these bugs?

[Deleted]

Radux, since you've been on beta correct me if i am wrong.

According to this list:


Elemental

Lava Burst: Now has a 1.5 second cast time, down from 2 seconds.
Earthquake: Now costs 70% of base mana, up from 60%.
Elemental Focus: Reworked - The Clearcasting state reduces the mana cost of your next 2 damage or healing spells by 25% (down from 40%), increases spell damage done by 10%, and increases single-target healing done by 50%.
Elemental Fury: Now also increases Lightning Bolt damage by 50%, Chain Lightning damage by 70%, and Critical strike damage increased by 50% for all spells.
Elemental Precision: Now also increases your mana pool by 400%.
Lava Surge: Now also causes your next Lava Burst to be instant.
Shamanism: Now increases damage of Lightning Bolt by 50% and Chain Lightning by 70% instead of 36% increased benefit from Spell Power.
Spiritual Insight: New - Increases your Mana Pool by 400%.
Thunderstorm: Now increases mana gained by 15%, up from 8%.

we should have both Elemental Fury and Shamanism as passive skills. However on ptr shamanism is nowhere to be seen.
Am i making a mistake here or is there a bug ?

[Radux]

- Lava Burst: Yes. 1.5 second base Cast time.
- EQ: Costs about ~14,000 mana at 85 (haven't gotten to 86 yet).
- Elemental Focus: Yes, tooltip is correct.
- Elemental Fury: Yes, tooltip is correct.
- Elemental Precision: Yes, tooltip is correct.
- Lava Surge: Yup. Instant.
- Shamanism: Not there anymore - rolled into EF.
- Spiritual Insight: Not there anymore - rolled into EP.
- Tstorm: Yup. 15% max mana.