[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Kissthebaby]

I rarely used Fox on H Morchok. Go a little conservative with focus when you have to move. Instead of draining to 0 focus 2 seconds before you know you have to run, stay at around 60-80 focus. I never had problems with it. I mean, I see the issue, and yeah, it is undesirable. But I am okay with this change because of all the other changes we've had(plus stopping the macroing).

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 02:02 AM ----------



Macroing Fox into Cobra/Steady and having separate macros for those(so 2 abilities on your bars) is the same as not macroing them in and using fox right before Steady/Cobra(again, just 2 abilities here as well), so it's not like it saves a keybinding. Unless you also have a keybind for Fox, which would then seem pointless if you already have a macro for the 2 abilities it's used for.

Getting rid of Fox and baking it into Steady/Cobra is too much. We'd never have to stop moving. That's not a solution.

And most classes have to glyph or use cooldowns or talents to cast on the move(Unleashed Lightning, Spiritwalkers Grace, PoM, the other mage one, etc etc). Fox is something we have at all times.

Looks like you have only killed h morchok a couple times... what that guy said is completely right. i am constantly switching aspects on morchok same for warmaster

On another note do any of you guys think that some of these specs are a bit clunky now. Seems like blizzard just added a lot of moves just for the sake of adding a lot of moves. Like the idea behind all these moves are really neat, but are not necessary at all. Sure one or two new moves is great but seems like they just jammed in way to many abilities. like the fact we have to add glaive toss into our rotation and 2 tiers of new cooldowns plus stampede and readiness being a baseline now. you have to make sure you use your 6 moves before you readiness so you dont waste it. Not to mention pvp. Im okay with it personally I guess but i know a few people who are reolling becuase it.

[Kalcheus]

Looks like you have only killed h morchok a couple times... what that guy said is completely right. i am constantly switching aspects on morchok same for warmaster

Dude, even I've downed H Morchok, and the last time I switched Aspects in PVE was the fourth week of Argaloth (i.e. I am not an elite player). If you're still switching then you need to find a better group to raid with, or figure out what else you're doing wrong.

[Tannon]

Pretty much every ranged has spells that can be cast on movement in MoP without having to toggle other spells. Hell, they even simplified stances for warriors to reduce (and to some extent remove) stance dancing.

That's right, spells, but not access to every spell and ability within their arsenal, with zero tradeoff on performance. Yes we may be ranged, but we are of a different sort with different game play mechanics and styles compared to other ranged. If cannot see the tradeoff of Utility and Mobility within AotF, maybe you could look into playing "Pretty much every ranged" instead?

[Kissthebaby]

Dude, even I've downed H Morchok, and the last time I switched Aspects in PVE was the fourth week of Argaloth (i.e. I am not an elite player). If you're still switching then you need to find a better group to raid with, or figure out what else you're doing wrong.

Guess thats why your biggest achievement in DS is killing h morchok, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Deleted]

Disengage FTW on Morchok? Really am I the only one using it to quickly get to the crystal? Geez

[Madwolf]

While I understand the idea behind changing the aspects to be on a GC, I don't really agree with it. I personally started macroing them together a year ago, and really enjoyed how it lessened the burden on me from having to aspect swap manually on my abilities. I think their should be a better solution to this than just putting them on the global cooldown. I think aspects as a whole should be re-evaluated if they've become so important that they must be micro-managed so much during a fight. I think it defeats the purpose. May be they should just add Hawk and Fox into the Hunter as baseline buffs, and not as aspects, and then do other creative things with the aspects. I think you should have to theory craft gear and shot rotations, not necessarily aspects, and I feel with the new GC system you might have to think about it a little bit more than one should have too.

That being said, may be I'm wrong. May be I can leave my macros the way they are, and be no worse for the wear. I guess we'll see in two weeks eh?

[aarjun]

Getting rid of Fox and baking it into Steady/Cobra is too much. We'd never have to stop moving. That's not a solution.

A comment like this makes me question your PVP background. Do you honestly think that not being able to macro it would make hunters stop moving in PVP? You can STILL cast the exact same shots as in cata on the move in MoP even with this change. The only thing that's changing with this change is that you're losing a lot more GCDs to a non-damaging/non-utility spell, which happens far more frequently in PVP than in PVE. It seems like the opinions are divided into 2 categories: those that PVE and those that PVP (and PVE). It's a simple case of, it won't affect me much (PVErs), so it doesn't bother me even though the mechanism is stupid.

[Rackfu]

The only reason you would need to aspect dance on Heroic Morchok would be if you were undergeared (ie: Realm First type progression) and if you are trying to top the meters and rank on logs.

Otherwise, it is super easy just to pool focus right before the crystal drops, disengage back to it when it is close to blowing and then using instants while you run back into place.

------

Also, the whole point of it is force you to make a choice...

1) Extra Damage (and survival with Iron Hawk)
2) Extra Mobility


Seriously, I swear some people want something like:

[Aspect of the OPPVPER] You take on the aspect of overpowered PvPer. You take 25% less damage from all sources. You gain 30% movement speed. You are immune to all effects which cause the loss of control of your character and are immune to stuns and snare. Your Arcane Shots focus cost is reduced to 10 and grants you 10 focus, does double damage, reduces the targets movement speed by 50%, and applies a 10% healing debuff.

[alphahunter]

Mists of Pandaria Beta - Build 15983
-Aspect of the Beast no longer has a cooldown.
-Aspect of the Cheetah no longer has a cooldown.
-Aspect of the Fox no longer has a cooldown.
-Aspect of the Hawk no longer has a cooldown.
-Aspect of the Pack no longer has a cooldown.

i first thought "okay, nice, now i can switch aspects faster".
but instead, people get a gcd each time they switch aspects now
thats a so huge pvp nerf in my eyes....
its like warriors geting gcd on their stances
how do you feel about that?


im shocked right now

[Tannon]

why does Arcane Shot still seem to severely outdamage Explosive Shot, which has a cooldown and costs 25% more focus to use? ES is pitifully weak.

Are you combing the initial damage and the following 2 ticks into this entire "pitiful " damage from explosive? Or are you comparing the damage from arcane to the initial damage or just one tick...

[Renley]

Looks like you have only killed h morchok a couple times... what that guy said is completely right. i am constantly switching aspects on morchok same for warmaster

On another note do any of you guys think that some of these specs are a bit clunky now. Seems like blizzard just added a lot of moves just for the sake of adding a lot of moves. Like the idea behind all these moves are really neat, but are not necessary at all. Sure one or two new moves is great but seems like they just jammed in way to many abilities. like the fact we have to add glaive toss into our rotation and 2 tiers of new cooldowns plus stampede and readiness being a baseline now. you have to make sure you use your 6 moves before you readiness so you dont waste it. Not to mention pvp. Im okay with it personally I guess but i know a few people who are reolling becuase it.

Yes, I've only killed him a few times. It doesn't detract from the fact that it still isn't true. You really don't need to use Fox all that much.

As for the rest, I'm personally happy with it. Hunter PvE always needed some extra buttons/cooldowns to use. It's a ton of fun, but it's fairly simple. I welcome the rotational additions and cooldowns. My only problem is making room on my bars and finding keybinds. @_@

Disengage FTW on Morchok? Really am I the only one using it to quickly get to the crystal? Geez

Exactly. Aim, Disengage, and hey! You're there, if not close.

A comment like this makes me question your PVP background. Do you honestly think that not being able to macro it would make hunters stop moving in PVP? You can STILL cast the exact same shots as in cata on the move in MoP even with this change. The only thing that's changing with this change is that you're losing a lot more GCDs to a non-damaging/non-utility spell, which happens far more frequently in PVP than in PVE. It seems like the opinions are divided into 2 categories: those that PVE and those that PVP (and PVE). It's a simple case of, it won't affect me much (PVErs), so it doesn't bother me even though the mechanism is stupid.

Right, we can still cast the same exact shots while moving. But on live, we have to sacrifice damage for that movement(talking about Steady/Cobra here). And I'm not saying we won't stop moving. But if Fox didn't exist and we could cast Steady/Cobra at all times moving or standing still, why would we ever stand still? We'd have the benefit of both the increased damage and mobility(and reduced damage if specced) from both aspects. We'd be constantly moving away or to people without thinking twice about having to switch to Hawk for the bump in damage. Right now, you can and should cast Cobra/Steady in Hawk when you don't have to move.

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 03:37 AM ----------

The only reason you would need to aspect dance on Heroic Morchok would be if you were undergeared (ie: Realm First type progression) and if you are trying to top the meters and rank on logs.

Otherwise, it is super easy just to pool focus right before the crystal drops, disengage back to it when it is close to blowing and then using instants while you run back into place.

------

Also, the whole point of it is force you to make a choice...

1) Extra Damage (and survival with Iron Hawk)
2) Extra Mobility


Seriously, I swear some people want something like:

[Aspect of the OPPVPER] You take on the aspect of overpowered PvPer. You take 25% less damage from all sources. You gain 30% movement speed. You are immune to all effects which cause the loss of control of your character and are immune to stuns and snare. Your Arcane Shots focus cost is reduced to 10 and grants you 10 focus, does double damage, reduces the targets movement speed by 50%, and applies a 10% healing debuff.

Thank you! This is exactly my point. We need some sort of sacrifice or downfall. We can't have everything. ESPECIALLY not 15% reduced damage, 10% increased AP, and casting while moving at all times. That's ridiculous.

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 03:41 AM ----------

That's right, spells, but not access to every spell and ability within their arsenal, with zero tradeoff on performance. Yes we may be ranged, but we are of a different sort with different game play mechanics and styles compared to other ranged. If cannot see the tradeoff of Utility and Mobility within AotF, maybe you could look into playing "Pretty much every ranged" instead?

Also, to add to this, their stance dancing had to do with WAY more than just the use of one ability(like us). Intercept, Spell Reflect, Disarm, intervene, Shield Block, and others(if I missed them). It was much more complicated for them.

Spells you can cast while moving/to allow casting while moving:
Scorch(talent)
Ice Flows(talent- 1 minute cooldown for 2 spells)
Unleashed Lightning(glyph with reduced damage on spell)
Spiritwalkers Grace(2 minute cooldown for 15 seconds)
Kiljaedens Cunning(talent- 1 minute cooldown for 6 seconds, passively works but increases cast time by 50%, AND each cast reduces your movement speed by 10%, stacking 2 times)

That's not a lot. 3 of which are cooldowns, 3 are talents, 1 is a glyph. And we have it worse because we have it on demand at all times but we just have to use a GCD?

[Keren]

BM: Orc>Panda>Troll>Worgen>Undead>Gob>Dren>Dwarf>Belf>Human>Tauren>Nelf
SV: Orc>Panda>Troll>Undead>Worgen>Dren>Dwarf>Belf>Nelf>Human>Tauren>Gob
MM: Troll>Orc>Panda>Undead>Worgen>Gob>Dren>Dwarf>Belf>Nelf>Human>Tauren
With the nerf of Command. only 2% pet dmg now

its already simmed, and Orc is the best racial for ALL speccs. --> http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t126894-...9/#post2179023
The math from zeheran already includes the command nerf and the undead racial!

[osa]

its already simmed, and Orc is the best racial for ALL speccs. --> http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t126894-...9/#post2179023
The math from zeheran already includes the command nerf and the undead racial!

She didn't update that table yet, and wrote changes to orc racial in another post:
http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t126894-...0/#post2180889

[Dracodraco]

Looks like you have only killed h morchok a couple times... what that guy said is completely right. i am constantly switching aspects on morchok same for warmaster

On another note do any of you guys think that some of these specs are a bit clunky now. Seems like blizzard just added a lot of moves just for the sake of adding a lot of moves. Like the idea behind all these moves are really neat, but are not necessary at all. Sure one or two new moves is great but seems like they just jammed in way to many abilities. like the fact we have to add glaive toss into our rotation and 2 tiers of new cooldowns plus stampede and readiness being a baseline now. you have to make sure you use your 6 moves before you readiness so you dont waste it. Not to mention pvp. Im okay with it personally I guess but i know a few people who are reolling becuase it.

What about me. I've killed heroic morchok 61 times across my characters, 24 of those being on my hunter. And I say, if you have to constantly switch to fox, then you're doing something wrong. Get full focus bar -> run to crystal while depleting -> switch to fox right before the explosion happens -> refill focus bar while in the air -> change to hawk -> deplete focus bar while running back to morchok.
Yes, you'll be switching for every crystal, but you won't be switching back and forth like a maniac if you do it correct.

And as I've said a *ton* of times:
Using other classes that gets filler-casts on the move for comparison does not work, as the reason they get that is that they HAVE no other abilities they can resort to while moving, as most of their arsenal are either DoT's or casted spells. Hunters get access to everything BUT the two spells affected by Fox. Even then, shamans are trading off 4% lightning bolt damage or 5 mins off fire elemental totem (not sure which one they prefer), so it isn't just "free" to use.
This will up the skill cap for both PvE and PvP, which in PvE, is something we severely need after they did away with stutter stepping and arcane munching. Getting more abilities (that you have to click every 15 and 30 seconds, for the guy complaining) won't really do anything at all. They're way too infrequent to hugely affect us in any way whatsoever.

[osa]

What about me. I've killed heroic morchok 61 times across my characters, 24 of those being on my hunter. And I say, if you have to constantly switch to fox, then you're doing something wrong. Get full focus bar -> run to crystal while depleting -> switch to fox right before the explosion happens -> refill focus bar while in the air -> change to hawk -> deplete focus bar while running back to morchok.
Yes, you'll be switching for every crystal, but you won't be switching back and forth like a maniac if you do it correct.

Kissthebaby didn't mean really "constantly", like those who macro aspects in every slot.
If you take your own example, in cata you were benefitting from occasional aspect switching (repositioning for crystal explosion and explosion itself for example) and not punished by 2 non-damaging gcd every time you need to occasionally move or being moved by boss mechanic.

[Dracodraco]

Kissthebaby didn't mean really "constantly", like those who macro aspects in every slot.
If you take your own example, in cata you were benefitting from occasional aspect switching (repositioning for crystal explosion and explosion itself for example) and not punished by 2 non-damaging gcd every time you need to occasionally move or being moved by boss mechanic.

On the other hand, that's going to be a part of being a good hunter. You need to figure out if switching is worth the GBC loss (hint - if you can't do anything else at all, it is), or you should stay in hawk and eat missing a shot. This will also increase the usefullness of Fervor even further over Dire Beast (being able to throw off 3 arcane shots by using it). Benefitting from is not the same as needing it, if your playstyle is changed accordingly.

[Penguintamer]

If it makes anyone feel better, - The uproar from the hunter community on the Beta Class forum is... loud. And spans multiple threads. Heck, even Zeherah popped in.

[Renley]

I really wish we could 'like' posts on MMO-Champion.

OT: For those interested in keeping up with simmed DPS and the best talents for each spec, Zeherah posted these over on EJ. These are done as an Orc in BiS heroic T14.

BM- 107787.80, Talents: Fervor, lynx rush, glaive toss (this patch brought fervor back above dire beast again)
MM- 92197.33, Talents: dire beast, murder, glaive toss
SV- 99627.55, Talents: dire beast, murder, glaive toss

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 09:21 AM ----------

If it makes anyone feel better, - The uproar from the hunter community on the Beta Class forum is... loud. And spans multiple threads. Heck, even Zeherah popped in.

Tbh, I'm glad there is an uproar. As I said, I don't like the change, but I'd rather this than the previous version where people just macro'd it in. I'd love Aspects to evolve and become something where we need to think even more, but i don't see that happening this close to release. One can hope.

[Deleted]

For pve i basicly never use fox (very few occations), PVP thou is a whole diffrent points. You NEED to macro it to be able to do any kind of decent damage/uptime. If blizzard dont like us macroing fox/hawk then MAYBE they should concider remakeing the whole aspect system that imo it totally failed. OP or not but i think they need to just remove hawk/fox and make it all baseline.

And ofc balance us from that point on.

[osa]

On the other hand, that's going to be a part of being a good hunter. You need to figure out if switching is worth the GBC loss (hint - if you can't do anything else at all, it is), or you should stay in hawk and eat missing a shot. This will also increase the usefullness of Fervor even further over Dire Beast (being able to throw off 3 arcane shots by using it). Benefitting from is not the same as needing it, if your playstyle is changed accordingly.

Well in current beta stage the only decision will be to never use AoF (in pve) at all, because with current focus regen abilities and punishing aspect switch system it will not be worth the damage loss of those 2 GCDs. That doesn't look very skillful.