[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Hunter Information

[Attahnimo]

Honestly the stampede does not seem OP to me. With the very long cooldown, a number of classes can use their defensive cooldowns and potentially take considerably reduced damage. A mage for example could iceblock it, a paladin bubbling it. Since it is physical damage team mates can HoP the target of it, pets can be frost novaed in place while the mage blinks away. Rogues could evasion it, or even vanish.

It will just make the opposition have to play a little smarter if they know a hunter has Stampede off cooldown.

And hunters can play smarter in regards when to cast stampede...

stampede during hypothermia debuff or force iceblock before stampede with say bestial wrath.
Tranq shot > HoP
silence or root mage to negate novas
stun rogue to negate evasion
flare rogue to negate vanish

we have plenty ways to get off a 3 sec cast...

crane sleep, monkey blind, wyvern sting, narrow escape, scatter shot, freezing trap, binding shot, entrapment, web, intimidation etc

its just dumb how our level cap abilities always have all these restrictions, like all of cata camo isnt even usable in combat. Only lvl 85 spell unusable in combat. Now with stampede it has a cd so its not usable in arenas (will be usable in RBGs) and its not reset by readiness.

Yea its powerful but we want cool, unique mechanics to make us desirable in grps and pvp. We want the smoke bombs and ring of frosts that makes rogues/mages necessary for RBGS.

Not retard proof damage abilities only with massive restrictions all for the sake of flavor...

[Renley]

The fix to that would be increasing the duration they stay out. Lower the cooldown to 5 minutes, make them do 50% damage, and boost their duration to 20 seconds. It'd be fine to me like that. I do like the ability, but only 10 seconds is kinda crap when they slow run to the targets to begin with. Imo it'd feel just as awesome as long as their duration was raised in the process.

Oh, they spawn on the target now. its pretty nice. And I suppose 5minutes for 20 seconds wouldn't be too bad. I wouldn't complain about that.

---------- Post added 2012-05-14 at 08:02 AM ----------

And hunters can play smarter in regards when to cast stampede...

stampede during hypothermia debuff or force iceblock before stampede with say bestial wrath.
Tranq shot > HoP
silence or root mage to negate novas
stun rogue to negate evasion
flare rogue to negate vanish

we have plenty ways to get off a 3 sec cast...

crane sleep, monkey blind, wyvern sting, narrow escape, scatter shot, freezing trap, binding shot, entrapment, web, intimidation etc

its just dumb how our level cap abilities always have all these restrictions, like all of cata camo isnt even usable in combat. Only lvl 85 spell unusable in combat. Now with stampede it has a cd so its not usable in arenas (will be usable in RBGs) and its not reset by readiness.

Yea its powerful but we want cool, unique mechanics to make us desirable in grps and pvp. We want the smoke bombs and ring of frosts that makes rogues/mages necessary for RBGS.

Not retard proof damage abilities only with massive restrictions all for the sake of flavor...

We have a lot of cool and great mechanics in MoP. One of the biggest things hunters lacked though was a significant DPS cooldown. Sure, Rapid Fire was alright for MM, but for SV and BM it's not that huge. I'm fairly certain we'll be wanted in RBGs and Arena due to all of our overall changes. Hunters are one of the top dogs on the beta right now due to our greatly increased survivability, our damage output, our CC, etc. BM just wrecks face SO hard now.

[redsunrising15]

BM just wrecks face SO hard now.

*queue tears of happiness*

[Arhippa]

I get that BM wasn't good for almost 2 full expansions and they need some love as well, but so far it feels like it's all about BM. Pets here, pets there, new pets, new pet related abilities as well as new pet abilities. As someone who dislikes BM and sees pets as nothing more but a glorified dot, I feel a bit left out. Whether that's actually justified or not, I do not know, but I'd like to see some other stuff as well. Hunters aren't only about pets after all.

How many MM or SV specific changes have they made so far ? New ISS and the BA change attempt with bad results come to mind, but that's about it. You could argue that SV feels quite okay as it is so there might not be a need for change, but MM was clunky as hell last I played it in PvE (2-3 first weeks of 4.3) and I don't think that has changed. I remember them posting something about focus regen and that they're considering how they want to change it, if they want to change it at all, with us losing the t13 2set. I suppose it's a bit hard to make changes before they make their minds up on that issue. Regardless, I'd still like to hear some sort of an update at least. Something to look forward to.

Hunters are one of the top dogs on the beta right now due to our greatly increased survivability, our damage output, our CC, etc. BM just wrecks face SO hard now.

You should know just as well as I do to not make any predictions based on the numbers in beta, especially when it's still so early on. Smashing faces right now =/= when it actually goes live.

[ttak82]

I beg you Blizzard, please.. Please make our pet talents / abilities more customized. I'm tired of my monkey, make it possible so I for example can have a cat that does and has the same abilities as my monkey, for example Bad Manner as a cat could be some kind of throw down ability. Would be really cool. Also, make our explosive trap glyph unique please. Make it so the pushback don't only come if triggered, but if you walk over the flame as well. That would actully make us have a unique pushback that no one else in the game has.

Hello, I finally registered after seeing this post. (Long time reader, first time poster.) I have thought of this thing since a couple of weeks and even made a post about this on the EU forums; unfortunately it was in the beta classes forum and the thread got buried in the middle of all the feedback everyone else was giving so I doubt many people saw the thread.

eu.battle net / wow / en /forum /topic/3888940442 (links need to be fixed)

I'll post it up here now. If you support it, please please help out on the official forums!



Some of the current design goals for hunter pets in MOP are mentioned here:
blue.mmo-champion com /topic/220296-hunter-pet-abilities/

General buff/debuff design for MOP is mentioned here:
blue.mmo-champion com/topic/218632-mists-of-pandaria-buff-and-debuff-design/
(Hunters will bring +10% AP/+5% Crit buffs and Mortal Strike debuff on their own)
Currently we can get former tank pets into raids as a dps option.
" Hey I like my turtle or shale spider, and now it can go ferocity and dps., Yay! "

But then, lets say you are in a 10 man guild and some core buff is missing. Lets say 10% Melee and range haste. This guild has none of those specs that can offer it. (low chance of this happening but , hey lets suppose - its a no melee situation)

" Aw, I cant really use my turtle (or shale spider) at the moment, it can dps but it only has shell shield (or stun); need a pet for that missing debuff. Grrr. "

Lets consider another situation.

" Man I wanna own in PvP with that nice raptor of mine, but meh, weakened armor is not as great as that monkey blind or spider root. ''

It has been mentioned that hunters would get to choose their pets based on looks and their one special ability. But in some situations we may still have to use specific pets because of buff/debuffs or utility, it does give the illusion of choice.

I would like to suggest a compromise: Allow hunters to choose, in addition to 1 of 3 (cunning/ferocity/tenacity) specs for their pets, 1 of 2 possible special abilities. (exotic pets get either both as in live version or have an option of 2/3 abilities to choose). This ability, like the 3 specs can be changed, by trainer or some inscription reagent.

Lets take turtles as an example again.

Special abilities (choose any 1): Shell shield (solo/tank utility) or physical vulnerability (dps debuff)

Nether ray:
Nether shock (Interrupt utility) or 10% melee and ranged haste (dps buff)

Raptor
Weakened Armor (dps debuff) or Intervene (with safeguard effect) (damage reduction utility}
Note that intervene is not in current beta pet specs but it can be made available as a utility option to other pet families in this way.
Other utility options could also include snare, weaker version of spirit beast heal, a weak battle master trinket type ability.

Pros:I feel that this would really allow hunters more room to choose their pets just for looks in both pve and pvp and bring some more utility and flavor to the class. It also could bring back some pet abilities that were taken out but in an interesting way. (like intervene) Devs can tie this in to inscription, by making an eraser glyph so scribes can benefit as well.

Cons: It may be confusing for some players, particularly new players or altoholics. It might also take time to get all the pet abilities sorted (but since this is beta so its a good time to suggest it).

If balancing may be an issue, devs can simply turn this suggestion into a glyph, where pets still have one unique ability, but it is different one.

What do you players out there think?


Right now Blizzard have only partly listened with the introduction of the new buffs. You'll still be forced to use monkeys or cranes in (which suck imo in terms of looks - yes this is my opinion) in pvp and some people will still cringe when you take out that turtle or utility pet in a 10 man setting. With the suggestion above, we'll have a ton of cosmetic, interesting and meaningful pet options.

[Deleted]

As someone who dislikes BM and sees pets as nothing more but a glorified dot

For PvE maybe, but what do you really expect from the pet to do? If it's strong and something more than a dot, you depend on it for optimal dps, the rotation will be too complicated and people will complain. If the pet is weak and just needs to be send to attack and forgotten, it's named a "dot" and people will complain again.

PvP is where the pet shines, because you can do so many things with it. The pet can win your battles without even being a dot.

You should know just as well as I do to not make any predictions based on the numbers in beta, especially when it's still so early on. Smashing faces right now =/= when it actually goes live.

Hunters are good on beta not because their damage is high, but because the class has been improved in many ways. So numbers have nothing to do with it.

[Renley]

I get that BM wasn't good for almost 2 full expansions and they need some love as well, but so far it feels like it's all about BM. Pets here, pets there, new pets, new pet related abilities as well as new pet abilities. As someone who dislikes BM and sees pets as nothing more but a glorified dot, I feel a bit left out. Whether that's actually justified or not, I do not know, but I'd like to see some other stuff as well. Hunters aren't only about pets after all.

How many MM or SV specific changes have they made so far ? New ISS and the BA change attempt with bad results come to mind, but that's about it. You could argue that SV feels quite okay as it is so there might not be a need for change, but MM was clunky as hell last I played it in PvE (2-3 first weeks of 4.3) and I don't think that has changed. I remember them posting something about focus regen and that they're considering how they want to change it, if they want to change it at all, with us losing the t13 2set. I suppose it's a bit hard to make changes before they make their minds up on that issue. Regardless, I'd still like to hear some sort of an update at least. Something to look forward to.



You should know just as well as I do to not make any predictions based on the numbers in beta, especially when it's still so early on. Smashing faces right now =/= when it actually goes live.

Well, as much as you dislike BM, you have to remember pets are a huge part of being a hunter. It's a core mechanic for us and we have one spec fully based around pets. For the last 2 expansions, as you said, BM has been out of the love loop. It felt simple, it's damage was never the best, it's mechanics made a lot of people not want to play it. Of the three specs, it needed the most love, not just because it had the lowest damage. MM and SV both don't necessarily need any big changes. They feel good. That said, MM did get a ncie change regarding the Steady Shot haste buff(lasts longer and gives extra focus per steady shot), as well as significantly buffing the damage of Aimed Shot. SV is getting a focus on serpent sting tick mechanic. When it comes to mechanic or rotational changes, though, I don't think we'll see anything huge for MM and SV because they honestly don't need many changes.

And I know it's beta and numbers change, but as Gregz21 said:

For PvE maybe, but what do you really expect from the pet to do? If it's strong and something more than a dot, you depend on it for optimal dps, the rotation will be too complicated and people will complain. If the pet is weak and just needs to be send to attack and forgotten, it's named a "dot" and people will complain again.

PvP is where the pet shines, because you can do so many things with it. The pet can win your battles without even being a dot.



Hunters are good on beta not because their damage is high, but because the class has been improved in many ways. So numbers have nothing to do with it.

While our damage is good, the reasons why we are doing so great are as followed:
-survivability(disengage heal, Iron Hawk, Spirit Bond)
-movement(disengage distance glyph, disengage sprint, cheetah glyphs)
-CC(explosive trap glyph, Silencing shot, Intimidation, Binding Shot, permanent trap launcher[on toggle])
-no minimum range

My BM hunter can lock a healer out for 6 seconds(Silencing Shot+Intimidation). Throw in Crane sleep/monkey blind, Scatter Shot, Freezing Trap, and thats a few nice interrupts. A 1 minute trinket(Bestial Wrath) that makes my pet immortal for the duration. A whopping 57% HP back every 25 seconds(Spirit Bond+Exhiliration+Animal Bond).

Like we said, its not our damage, its our overall gameplay improvements.

[Neidrah]

Yea its powerful but we want cool, unique mechanics to make us desirable in grps and pvp. We want the smoke bombs and ring of frosts that makes rogues/mages necessary for RBGS.

Not retard proof damage abilities only with massive restrictions all for the sake of flavor...

Pretty much this.

---------- Post added 2012-05-14 at 10:11 PM ----------

Also, what do you guys think about the new Scattering Glyph? I wanna say it's nice that blizzard listened to the players and actually made that glyph (although it just should've been made before Icy Solace anyway...)

But why can't Scatter Shot just ignore dots? In the same fashion as Dragon Breath won't break on dots. And then the Glyph of Icy Solace would actually remove those dots for good. Since I might play survival in MoP and if every time I scatter it removes all dots, that's just gonna be a problem.

But then I would have one more concern about this glyph: Since trap can easily affect someone else than the desired target as soon as people are clever enough to eat the trap for their healer. Simply removing DoT's is gonna be a problem: Imagine playing with a feral, putting all your bleeds on a target only for them to be removed because that warrior intervened his healer and got trapped for him. That would be really annoying and in some cases, impossible to avoid. What I think is that Freezing Trap should instead either
A) Ignore DoT's: They would not do damage anymore during the trap duration but would not be removed.
B) Ignore the dots for a couple seconds and then only remove them. Which would allow the hunter to break the trap if he would need to keep the dots on the target.




So basically what I'd really like to see is: Scatter (and Bad Manner) Ignoring dots. And Freezing Trap removing them AFTER a couple of seconds. Imo that's really the way things should be.

[Drakoes]

Yea its powerful but we want cool, unique mechanics to make us desirable in grps and pvp. We want the smoke bombs and ring of frosts that makes rogues/mages necessary for RBGS.

Not retard proof damage abilities only with massive restrictions all for the sake of flavor...

Agreed. Whilst it's nice to get quality-of-life fixes and cool abilities that look great on paper, where is the signature ability that makes the hunter a hunter? Although not every class gets things as defining as rogues' smoke bomb and even certain casters with the ability to damage simultaneously, there isn't really anything too threatening or unique that hunters bring to the table in PvP.

So you get some new pet skills that do damage and burst, that's nice, but nothing too fancy. I'm not saying they aren't good, but compared to some of what the other classes are getting, it doesn't look that good.

[Renley]

Agreed. Whilst it's nice to get quality-of-life fixes and cool abilities that look great on paper, where is the signature ability that makes the hunter a hunter? Although not every class gets things as defining as rogues' smoke bomb and even certain casters with the ability to damage simultaneously, there isn't really anything too threatening or unique that hunters bring to the table in PvP.

So you get some new pet skills that do damage and burst, that's nice, but nothing too fancy. I'm not saying they aren't good, but compared to some of what the other classes are getting, it doesn't look that good.

I'd say Stampede is very huntery. I know people aren't happy with the cooldown and all, but its pretty nice. And I think the biggest thing for hunters this expansion isn't supposed to be a new skill. Its fixed that we've all been asking for since the beginning of time. Scatter cleanse, freezing trap cleanse, permanent trap launcher toggle, 25yd range Kill Command, no minimum range, in combat Camo, meaningful glyph choices, survivability through healing, etc. We may not have gotten the coolest ability on the block, but by golly we are going to be friggin' awesome!

[Neidrah]

I'd say Stampede is very huntery. I know people aren't happy with the cooldown and all, but its pretty nice. And I think the biggest thing for hunters this expansion isn't supposed to be a new skill. Its fixed that we've all been asking for since the beginning of time. Scatter cleanse, freezing trap cleanse, permanent trap launcher toggle, 25yd range Kill Command, no minimum range, in combat Camo, meaningful glyph choices, survivability through healing, etc. We may not have gotten the coolest ability on the block, but by golly we are going to be friggin' awesome!

I really don't think stampede is "huntery" at all. For a long time, hunters had only 1 pet at a time and had to switch by talking to the stable master. In wotlk we then had the option to switch without the stable master but only out of combat and out of arena/battleground. So pretty much one pet at a time still. It's only at cata that we got that ability to swap pets. And while it's nice. It's really not a hunter signature for me. And using all 5 pets a time is certainly not either.

[Renley]

I really don't think stampede is "huntery" at all. For a long time, hunters had only 1 pet at a time and had to switch by talking to the stable master. In wotlk we then had the option to switch but only out of combat and out of arena/battleground. So pretty much one pet at a time still. It's only at cata that we got that ability to swap pets. And while it's nice. It's really not a hunter signature for me. And using all 5 pets a time is certainly not either.

I meant in the same sense that smoke bomb and ring of frost are roguey and magey to rogues and mages. Rogues are stealthy back stabbing assassins who use poisons. Smoke Bomb only fits the stealthy part. Mages are masters of the ice, fire, and arcane magics. Ring of Frost only represents ice. Hunters are beast tamers, using ranged weapons to pick off enemies and traps to hinder their foes. Stampede is very much representative of beast masters.

[Brocksley]

I haven't logged in to the Beta in a while, and then I did last night. Is it just me or do arrows look different whilst being fired? They seem to be more noticeable now. I was going to compare, but then my Beta client decided to crash a lot.

[bil]

Pretty much this.

---------- Post added 2012-05-14 at 10:11 PM ----------

Also, what do you guys think about the new Scattering Glyph? I wanna say it's nice that blizzard listened to the players and actually made that glyph (although it just should've been made before Icy Solace anyway...)

But why can't Scatter Shot just ignore dots? In the same fashion as Dragon Breath won't break on dots. And then the Glyph of Icy Solace would actually remove those dots for good. Since I might play survival in MoP and if every time I scatter it removes all dots, that's just gonna be a problem.

But then I would have one more concern about this glyph: Since trap can easily affect someone else than the desired target as soon as people are clever enough to eat the trap for their healer. Simply removing DoT's is gonna be a problem: Imagine playing with a feral, putting all your bleeds on a target only for them to be removed because that warrior intervened his healer and got trapped for him. That would be really annoying and in some cases, impossible to avoid. What I think is that Freezing Trap should instead either
A) Ignore DoT's: They would not do damage anymore during the trap duration but would not be removed.
B) Ignore the dots for a couple seconds and then only remove them. Which would allow the hunter to break the trap if he would need to keep the dots on the target.




So basically what I'd really like to see is: Scatter (and Bad Manner) Ignoring dots. And Freezing Trap removing them AFTER a couple of seconds. Imo that's really the way things should be.

You're thinking too much about this... If Scatter removes dots, why would you have the trap glyph as well? Also, you shouldn't normally be dotting up a target you plan to cc... Sure you might end up having to do it but paying a price for that is part of your decision process, at least now you can do it...

[Neidrah]

Stampede is very much representative of beast masters.

You said it. Beast Master. Which is only one side of the hunter class. Not to me what the ultimate hunter ability should represent. I'd have no problem with that being a spell you'd get if you'd spec BM but other than that then I just don't like it at all.

---------- Post added 2012-05-15 at 01:48 AM ----------

You're thinking too much about this... If Scatter removes dots, why would you have the trap glyph as well? Also, you shouldn't normally be dotting up a target you plan to cc... Sure you might end up having to do it but paying a price for that is part of your decision process, at least now you can do it...

Wow, you really don't seem to have understood what I meant. And saying I'm thinking too much is just a little stupid. A forum is all about thinking. If you don't wanna think I don't know why you'd come and post here. Also it's only by thinking that you can come up with a clever solution instead of a shallow and easy one like the one they came up with.


But I'll try to reexplain what I meant for you...

You said "If Scatter removes dots, why would you have the trap glyph as well?" What I said is that I didn't like the idea of having scatter removing dots because it's a waste of dps. And there's a lot of situation (especially duels and bg's) in which a target that you want to Scatter is gonna be doted either by Piercing Shots or Immolation Traps, Snakes Traps or simply Serpent Sting... It happens all the time that I need to scatter someone, for example because I got rooted by that warrior and don't have Master's Call, or because he just used heroic leap, but I doted that guy before that because that's an important part of your damage, and an important part of the hunter's abilities. And I don't see why dots should be removed in that case. I want to be able to temporarily CC someone, just like when I Dragon Breath someone on my mage, and not have this CC broken by my dots or the dots removed.

But I still want freezing trap to remove dots since I can't count how many times a healer got doted right before I wanted to trap, either by Snake Traps, Immolation Trap, or by that rogue that silenced him, or that DK who used hungering frost, etc, etc...

And here is my final point. I don't want Freezing Trap to remove dots right away, otherwise anyone that would step in the trap instead of the intended target (and if you do arena as hunter you know it happens a lot) would get all his dots wiped out, which could be really annoying, especially if playing with classes like Feral/Lock. The solution to that being that the dots would only be cleaned after a couple of seconds, so that you would have the time to break the trap yourself if the one that got the trap is the doted target.


Got it now?

Their solution right now is just the easy way out. It'll allow to trap doted targets, yes, but it will also make you waste all your dots when you just want to scatter temporarily. It'll work, that's for sure but my solution is simply better. And if mages have it, I don't know why we couldn't.

[Renley]

You said it. Beast Master. Which is only one side of the hunter class. Not to me what the ultimate hunter ability should represent. I'd have no problem with that being a spell you'd get if you'd spec BM but other than that then I just don't like it at all.

But thats my point. You talk about these other spells which represent the class, when in reality, they only represent one aspect/spec of the class. Not to mention, you'd be hard pressed to make a skill that doesn't fit one of the 3 aspects of a hunter. Archery, beasts, and guerrilla warfare(traps, poisons, etc).

[Kalcheus]

I want a Quicksand Trap.

[bil]

Wow, you really don't seem to have understood what I meant. And saying I'm thinking too much is just a little stupid. A forum is all about thinking. If you don't wanna think I don't know why you'd come and post here. Also it's only by thinking that you can come up with a clever solution instead of a shallow and easy one like the one they came up with.

Calling me stupid is what is stupid... The Scatter glyph was requested over and over on the beta forums and we got what we asked for, be happy with that... Dragon's Breath allows dots to persist because the majority of the spells a fire mage uses are dots, we have at most two of any significance. Your solution isn't clever so much as it is obvious and takes away any decision making.

Also, Immo trap is gone

oh, and you're still thinking too much about this

edit: One more thing. I'd rather not have to use two glyph slots just to be able to trap someone who happens to have some dots up on them which I would have to do if the scatter glyph didn't remove them

[Deleted]

Have to agree with bil

No need to dumb down the class more

[Attahnimo]

not really about dumbing down the class

the game isnt the same as it was years ago, the pacing has entirely changed and we no longer have scorpid sting

what we do have is a trap that refreshes deadly poison over and over again, a talent that procs a DoT, a low damage dot and almost every other class having DoTs somewhere in their damage rotations.

what we dont have is scorpid sting or a way to remove said dots while having CC that breaks on DoTs and has a CD.

its not dumbing us down, you're talking about the one class that has to CC to CC...