Shields - The best offense is a good defense

[Underskilled]

I couldn't agree more OP, if people can use clubs and other blunt weapons as means of, well, weapons, I don't see why you couldn't use a shield as a weapon as well.

Someday, we will dual-wield shields, and tears of joy will be shed.

[Deleted]

Skyrim shield talents are just sick, especially the last one, raise your shield up while sprinting knock down the most targets.

Aion Templar class too, 4 different types of shield slams, each does different thing.

WoW could learn a few things from Skyrim for sure. DC online too has a totally dynamic talent system that means there is 'no' cookie cutter spec for certain classes given the variety of class in the game.

[MisterSheep]

In D&D, there were feats in the PhB2 that allowed you to treat a shield as an off-hand weapon (for the purposes of penalties and such). I think it was called Agile Shield Fighter or something like that. I didn't understand the point of a shield though. For a measly two or three AC that isn't gonna make a difference when monsters hit you 100% of the time later on, you can give up extra attacks. Blah. If you're gonna be a fighter, and you really want some AC, dual-wield and take the Two-Weapon Defense feats.

Well once you have enhancement bonus to your shield, you can get an extra 7+ AC bonus compared to someone wielding a grand weapon or two weapons. Two-weapon defense can be taken while wielding a shield (if you have the prerequisite) as the shield is treated as an off-hand weapon. But then you can strap a buckler to your arm and get almost as much AC.

The only difference between a shield or not, is that when you use a grand weapon or two weapons, you start with good damage and have a good defense potential through feats and items, while when you take a shield, you start with good defense and can have a good offense potential through feats and items (enchanted shield spikes in this case)

A while back i wanted to create a D&D character that would dual wield shields, but i forgot the idea when i saw that the AC bonus from both shields didn't stack and that the built itself required so many feat that it was not even funny, so i sticked with the regular sword'n'board fighter style.

Someday, we will dual-wield shields, and tears of joy will be shed.

I'm surprised so many people share that idea too. Both shield would probably look like a mix between fist weapons and shields. Combining the defensive potential of shield and the offensive potential of dual-wielding.

The only issues:

-The shield is heavy, hard, and blunt, great at slamming with the weight of our whole body for a destructive impact (especialy during a charge), but it's not so great for quick strikes.

-Lack of range would require us to be in close combat, exposing us to attacks.

The best way to make dual-wielding shields viable would be to have a heavy shield for defense and heavy shield slams, and a light shield for quicker strikes.

It would require testing, this summer i'll reunite my friend and test the potential of dual-wielding shields =D

But each fighting style has it's pros and cons. Those are based on personnal experience:

Sword'n'board is great for defense, great for novice fighters, you can parry weapons with both your shield and sword, using your sword for opportunistic strikes, and your shield is also a great blunt weapon that can throw your opponent off balance and this expose his defenses.

Dual-wielding is a poor fighting style IF your are not experimented and are unable to make good use of both weapons. It takes a lot of pratice to be able to exploit both weapons and thus double the potential of a single weapon. One of the best way to make use of both weapons is to feint with one weapon with a broad and flashy strike and to strike quickly with the other weapon while your opponent's defense are going toward your first strike. It might sound easy, but it is an art to master.

Grand weapons are great for novice too, they deliver powerful strikes, have a long range that allows you to strike your foe at a distance where it is unable to even touch you, and, contrary to a popular belief, strikes faster than regular one-handed weapons (A greatsword strikes faster than a longsword, and about as fast as a shortsword) But grand weapons are weak against shields, the shield can neutralizes your weapon, and you are left defenseless while you foe pummels you with his sword.

Polearms are great if your are able to keep your foe at bay as it possesses a great reach, but weak in close combat. It's quick, thrusting strike can easily go through a shield's defense, and the polearm itself is usualy better than the single one-handed sword of a sword'n'board fighter. But it lacks precision and it's offensive power usualy pales against a warrior armed with a grand weapon or dual-wielding.


But otherwise, experience is better than any weapon.

[shadowkras]

In D&D, there were feats in the PhB2 that allowed you to treat a shield as an off-hand weapon (for the purposes of penalties and such). I think it was called Agile Shield Fighter or something like that. I didn't understand the point of a shield though. For a measly two or three AC that isn't gonna make a difference when monsters hit you 100% of the time later on, you can give up extra attacks. Blah. If you're gonna be a fighter, and you really want some AC, dual-wield and take the Two-Weapon Defense feats.

I dont know the 4.0 rules and how much they have changed, but back in 3.x, some shields could offer cover (for multiple people), and that was the most broken defensive mechanic in the game after improved evasion.
Not to mention shield specific talents (not covered in the core books) and shield specific spells (for clerics and paladins).
For example, your shield could be enchanted to reduce fire damage taken, helping against dragons in a way that a extra sword wouldnt. There were also talents to stun people when shield bashing, i dont believe they took those out.

At the start of the game, every armor class point helps. If you got hit by 8 damage, you were pretty much dead or halfway there.

Monsters hitting 100% of the time is a failure of the game mechanics balancing, that should never happen. Against a equally geared warrior wearing full plate armor, monsters should have around 50-75% chance to hit, if the warrior isnt speced for defense (talents and extra magic items for armor class).

[MisterSheep]

Monsters hitting 100% of the time is a failure of the game mechanics balancing, that should never happen. Against a equally geared warrior wearing full plate armor, monsters should have around 50-75% chance to hit, if the warrior isnt speced for defense (talents and extra magic items for armor class).

If the monsters are always hitting the players, it's not because of a broken mechanic, it's because the Dungeon Master didn't balance the encounter properly. When i am DM, i always evaluate my player's characters sheet, level, attack bonus, spells, etc. so i can adjust their encounters. This way, plot fights and encounters are (usualy) never too hard nor faceroll.

[Deleted]

I'm also a shield fanatic and wish more games involved the offensive sides of shields.

also some bad ass 2h shield pwnage from Tyrion in GoT lol

[Deleted]

I actually had a conversation about this with one of my WoW buddies last summer, he was convinced that shield bash shouldn't do as much damage as it does. I argued that a shield can infact often be a deadly weapon even though it is designed for defence, depending on the design of shield, i reckon some are even more effective than say, maces.

[Chinese Bootlickers]

I like shields.I also like dual wielding.I've yet to find a game that lets me do both at the same time.This makes me sad.

[ImpTaimer]

I like shields.I also like dual wielding.I've yet to find a game that lets me do both at the same time.This makes me sad.

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls (Demon's Souls 2.0) both allow you to dual wield shields AND use them as weapons.

Skyrim was suppose to have dual wielding shields, since shields were suppose to be weapons not armor, but apparently that idea got scrapped. I'm sure a mod will allow it easily though.

Those are the only mainstream games that I know of that have the possibility of dual-wielding shields or using shields as weapons practically.

[JustintimeSS]

My default player type is shield defense user. I like to protect others and even in SP games I lean towards survival over insanity.

I've always been a tank in MP genres and it suits me best. Nothing thrills me more than a support class with an offensive ability (ie shield slam).