How is everyone okay with this?

[Deleted]

Even if I accepted that as proof of a much broader trend, which I don't, it still doesn't justify laziness and ignorance.

Not from blizzard, no.

I'm looking at how people really are, you are operating on how people should be in your perfect world. Reality > your imagination.

"beta access will go live with the beta launch."

That doesn't say "immediate access" anywhere. You are, to be blunt, lying.

it's the bare meaning of that phrase to me, as a natural english speaker. I ain't lying. been lied to, maybe if only by accident, but I am being honest.

I thought I was getting immediate access. Was realyl looking forward to it. Blizzard failed to tell me the whole story and now I feel let down.

Can you tell me anything to cheer me up about it all?

[Endus]

You can't use the "the ad was very clear" argument because we have already agreed that the wording was ambiguous (not clear).

I didn't say "the ad was very clear". I said "[some people] thought the ad said something it very clearly never did". Two entirely different statements.

See the above, where Injin claimed the ad said "immediate access". It never did. What lack of clarity there is does not support such an interpretation. It is outside the ambiguity inherent in the wording.

[Pann]

"beta access will go live with the beta launch."

That doesn't say "immediate access" anywhere. You are, to be blunt, lying.

So what does that mean?

[Abandon]

Can you tell me anything to cheer me up about it all?

Well, if you actually admit you are wrong then you will have learned a life lesson about reading things which you agree to. That's something to cheer up about.

So what does that mean?

It means what it says. That Beta access will go live with the Beta launch, which it did, hence all the videos and screenshots.

[potaco]

Even if I accepted that as proof of a much broader trend, which I don't, it still doesn't justify laziness and ignorance.

I, for one, have never argued to "justify laziness and ignorance." The fact is that companies know that people don't tend to read contracts, but rather rely on the easy-to-process information they are provided. It's not out of the question to think that a company would try to accommodate that rather than take advantage of it.

And slightly off-topic to this immediate discussion, but the people saying, "RED BULL DOESN'T REALLY GIVE YOU WINGS" and other similar arguments aren't playing fair. There is no contract involved.

[gamingmuscle]

We have gotten to the point where people are actually arguing that if you decide to walk up to a bridge and throw yourself off of it, then you have absolutely no responsibility for your own action, and all of the blame rests on the people who made the bridge.

Yeah, but this stupidity is amusing me.

[Larwood]

Not from blizzard, no.

I'm looking at how people really are, you are operating on how people should be in your perfect world. Reality > your imagination.


it's the bare meaning of that phrase to me, as a natural english speaker. I ain't lying. been lied to, maybe if only by accident, but I am being honest.

I thought I was getting immediate access. Was realyl looking forward to it. Blizzard failed to tell me the whole story and now I feel let down.

Can you tell me anything to cheer me up about it all?

I can cheer you up:

If you get over being butthurt, maybe you'll be able to engage your brain, see what has happened, and in future learn to read what is actually being said instead of reading what you want to hear.

[rad586]

The cost of all 400+ wow servers is less than 200k/year. Blizz made millions of $ but there is no money for more than 4 beta servers? They are just greedy. If they can't afford 40 beta servers then they should not sell annual passes with beta-access attached to them.

Christ, I so want to post a "I don't want to live on this planet anymore" meme pic, but it got me banned once already in the past, so I won't.

Blizzard haven't sold a single Annual Pass. It was FREE, they haven't charged extra for it, the only thing you were paying for was WoW game time. For making a promise to keep paying for 12 months they were giving you stuff for FREE.

[jeepguy16]

I need to pay for my phone service WHEN I receive the bill.....So anytime after I receive it should be good right?
You should not play golf when it rains (lightning).... So anytime after it rains, weeks or days later, I should assume it's not safe?
I get a check for my meal at a resturant and they tell me to pay when I am finished eating....You think tomorrow or maybe next week will work for them?
I will plan on naming my child when he/she is born.....5 years old seem good?
When there is a tornado, you should get to your basement....do you think I should go right then or maybe a few hours later?
You will have to sign for your package when it arrives....Don't see the UPS guy understanding if I say "I'll sign it later, maybe tomorrow".

Saying "when beta goes live" IS specific. "When" - at the time or in the event that . In this case, the time / event, is "beta goes live". Beta going live is one specific moment. Just look at the MMO-Champion news for last week or the forums. Beta WENT live last week. It's already happened. Beta isn't still going live. It is on servers and playable (as playable as beta can be...).
As I said once before, I didn't honestly expect everyone in on day 1. BUT, with that kind of advertising, I expected to see people getting in over the perioed of a few days, for new servers to be coming up and people being invited. The way they are handling this, it is clear that when they said "when beta goes live", what they actually meant was "sometime during beta". Of course, they didn't advertise it that way as that wouldn't sound as good.

[Callax]

Not from blizzard, no.

I'm looking at how people really are, you are operating on how people should be in your perfect world. Reality > your imagination.


it's the bare meaning of that phrase to me, as a natural english speaker. I ain't lying. been lied to, maybe if only by accident, but I am being honest.

I thought I was getting immediate access. Was realyl looking forward to it. Blizzard failed to tell me the whole story and now I feel let down.

Can you tell me anything to cheer me up about it all?

I still don't get how it say's immediate access.

How about this to cheer you up?

[potaco]

I didn't say "the ad was very clear". I said "[some people] thought the ad said something it very clearly never did". Two entirely different statements.

See the above, where Injin claimed the ad said "immediate access". It never did. What lack of clarity there is does not support such an interpretation. It is outside the ambiguity inherent in the wording.

OK, agreed. It very clearly does not (explicitly) state "immediate access". The actual mean, however, remains unclear.

[s_bushido]

Almost all terms of use and end user agreements force you to sign your life away in some form or another. That's why no one gives a shit about the contract and only cares about the ad. If everyone didn't sign an agreement that they felt could be used to change the original offer, we wouldn't have shit. The regular consumer is screwed in this regard.

The ad was ambiguous. Many people misinterpreted the ad. If the amount of people misinterpreting the ad is high enough, it represents a problem with Blizzard to effectively communicate what they were trying to get across. End of story.

You're not going to get very far blaming a company because you can't be bothered to read a couple paragraphs. The regular consumer is not the idiot you seem to think he is. The only ones that are, are those who can't take a step back, ask themselves what they actually agreed to (and what the company agreed to give them in return), and realize they might have to wait a little longer.

[Abandon]

OK, agreed. It very clearly does not (explicitly) state "immediate access". The actual mean, however, remains unclear.

Indeed, it is unclear, so the logical course of action would be to get it clarified before you commit to anything.

[Endus]

it's the bare meaning of that phrase to me, as a natural english speaker. I ain't lying. been lied to, maybe if only by accident, but I am being honest.

It doesn't say that, so the options are "you are lying" or "you do not grasp basic English".

I'm not trying to be rude here, but those are your choices. I recognize they're both negative, but that's because you've painted yourself into a corner where there's no good way out.

If we replace the terms with something contextually similar, we can change that phrase to be something like "the doors will open with the rising sun". This doesn't mean that the very second the sun peeks over the horizon, the doors will open. It means something during that phase, the doors will open. The beta is still launching. It isn't fully active. There are still invites going out. We are mid-launch.

It does not mean what you think, and you can't twist English the way you're trying to.

I thought I was getting immediate access. Was realyl looking forward to it. Blizzard failed to tell me the whole story and now I feel let down.

Can you tell me anything to cheer me up about it all?

The only thing that would get you to cheer up long-term would be for you to start taking personal responsibility for your own choices and actions rather than trying to lay the blame on others at every opportunity.

[Pann]

It means what it says. That Beta access will go live with the Beta launch, which it did, hence all the videos and screenshots.

Obviously beta access cannot be granted without beta being live, so why would they feel the need to tell people this? Are you suggesting that they believed people were stupid enough to believe they could gain access before the testing went live?

[Deleted]

Indeed, it is unclear, so the logical course of action would be to get it clarified before you commit to anything.

But it isn't unclear.

The bare meaning of it still looks like i'll be getting immediate access.

[potaco]

Another honest question to anyone who read the contract, fully understood everything in it, and still signed it: Why?

Offer subject to change without notice.

Why would you ever willingly agree to them being able to change anything about the offer at their discretion, without even having to notify you of it?

If they changed it to require you to provide them with your first-born child, would you just say, "Oh well, my bad... I knew what I was getting myself into..."? You wouldn't have any hard feelings towards them whatsoever?

[chronicman]

they havent mislead... "you will get beta access when it goes live" it's live and in time every AP holder will get it, the point it becomes false advertising is if when the beta is finished you have an AP and you didnt get an invite.. other then that it's your own ignorance

---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 11:14 AM ----------



he never said you'd get in day one.. he said you would get in when beta goes live.. and you will, sometime during the live beta test, again, your own ignorance is your own problem

Until someone can show a definitive anything showing anything blizzard related saying

You will get into beta when it goes live IN THE FIRST WAVE if you buy an AP... your arguments are flawed and invalid

beta only goes live once,besides they said at launch,and something only launches once.how many times have u seen the exact same rocket launch

[Chrysia]

I need to pay for my phone service WHEN I receive the bill.....So anytime after I receive it should be good right?
You should not play golf when it rains (lightning).... So anytime after it rains, weeks or days later, I should assume it's not safe?
I get a check for my meal at a resturant and they tell me to pay when I am finished eating....You think tomorrow or maybe next week will work for them?
I will plan on naming my child when he/she is born.....5 years old seem good?
When there is a tornado, you should get to your basement....do you think I should go right then or maybe a few hours later?
You will have to sign for your package when it arrives....Don't see the UPS guy understanding if I say "I'll sign it later, maybe tomorrow".

Saying "when beta goes live" IS specific. "When" - at the time or in the event that . In this case, the time / event, is "beta goes live". Beta going live is one specific moment. Just look at the MMO-Champion news for last week or the forums. Beta WENT live last week. It's already happened. Beta isn't still going live. It is on servers and playable (as playable as beta can be...).
As I said once before, I didn't honestly expect everyone in on day 1. BUT, with that kind of advertising, I expected to see people getting in over the perioed of a few days, for new servers to be coming up and people being invited. The way they are handling this, it is clear that when they said "when beta goes live", what they actually meant was "sometime during beta". Of course, they didn't advertise it that way as that wouldn't sound as good.
I didn't expect to be playing beta on day 1 but I did expect them to communicate a bit better on what was happening and to actually be working on getting people in. Instead, they are treating it as if they have no obligations and it will happen "when it's ready".

Actually, most bills you receive are several days in advance of the due date. You need to pay that bill some time between receipt of the bill and the due date.

Most people either name the child before they are born, or shortly after, but some cultures do wait until they reach a certain age to name them.

"Beta access" is the general term. Access to the beta went live with the beta. Maybe not your beta access (not mine either) but access in general did. They are adhering to the contract.

[Abandon]

But it isn't unclear.

The bare meaning of it still looks like i'll be getting immediate access.

...so get it clarified before you commit to anything.

Like I just said in the post you quoted, instead of making a wrong assumption and blaming them for it.

The "bare meaning" of it looks like you will be getting Beta access at some point during the Beta.