How is everyone okay with this?

[Sanguinare]

I'll admit it. No, I'm not okay with this. I'm downright pissed.

Blizzard decides not to tell us about daily waves, decides not to tell us they won't use a weekly system, they don't tell us jack shit about this beta. Even the sticky announcing downtime was never updated to mention a patch or that the servers are up again.

it is a beta no one knows when that stuff will happen assets go on when they go in you are told up font that beta will be unstable down time can happen patches get put on when ready not on some time frame. SAME WITH THE WAVES WAVE1 is taged WAVE 2 is taged all the ap are taged to WAVES but WAVES go out when the DEV team is ready not like by day by week but when shit get done.

[Orange Joe]

It's also "standard practice" for people to not read contracts. Why does that make it any more acceptable in this case?

It's does not make people right for not reading. Not reading the contract is 100% the customers fault.

[Frozen Death Knight]

I'm not saying we should all get in at once. But it'd be nice to see a courtesy post on the main WoW site about "how we will be handling beta invites for mists of Pandaria." instead of two-stepping nonsense like "account senority" and "APers get in first".

Could they have done it? Sure. Was it necessary? Considering how Betas work for any game, not really.

[Eggowaffles]

You believed (assumed) Blizzard wouldn't change the terms, despite it saying in "plain English" that they would have every legal right to do so.

I believed (assumed) that the ad was implying immediate access.

We're not so different, you and I.

Please, read. I said they wouldn't change it for the REASONS I SIGNED UP FOR.

Honestly, it's because of this kind of reading comprehension you are so furious about not getting in the beta. I also never stated I'd have a problem with them changing it, which you are implying, I could care less.

Stop and read, it will save your life; and quit assuming and implying things for other people.

[potaco]

I trust Blizzard as a company as they have not given me any reason not to in the past. I wouldn't expect them to do anything incredibly unreasonable like demand my first-born child (although they would be out of luck there with me if they tried it). If they did I could always break the contract, and I would not trust them again in the future as easily.

"Wouldn't expect" == "made an assumption that they wouldn't".

Almost every one of you has been arguing that the contract is essentially God in this scenario and that assumptions should never be made when a contract is involved, but have now admitted that you've made your own assumption about it.

[llandrywyn]

I certainly wouldn't feel bound by any such contract if the ad was different.

Why would I?

Why would you?

Pacta sunt servanda; the idea that a pact, once made, must be kept.

You are demonstrably wrong; if you sign a contract, the terms are legally binding unless it contravenes statutory or common law in the jurisdiction in which the contract was created. As long as the scope of the terms are within the legal limits, if you sign a contract you are legally bound the terms contained therein.

Caveat emptor; let the buyer beware. It is one of the oldest established legal doctrines available and, while I will concede some erosion in favour of consumer protection has occurred, the general operating premise is one of an "Implied Warranty of Fitness". This simply states that the goods received, at time of purchase, must be fit for the intended purpose under which they were offered.

Now here's where we come to the part where your 171 pages (at time of writing) of blathering ignorance come to a head; you have not a single leg to stand on. I can't speak for other countries specifically, but the discrepancy between the contract and the advertising (if I concede to you the point that it was every misleading) constitutes a minor breach of the Consumer Protection Act; without caring enough to look up the precedents I can't tell you the punitive measures involved but they would be no more than thousands of dollars.

No matter how much you protest, Pacta sunt servanda remains in effect. You signed a contract that contained no terms violating any legal limitations in either UK or US law, therefore the terms are legally binding. Open and shut I'm afraid. Just because you don't like it and you, personally, feel that it is unfair and should have been written differently, has absolutely no bearing on the issue.

TL : DR - Suck it up princess; you're demonstrably wrong.

[Spike`]

Ok lets see then

Blizzard silent and letting the community give them reasons how to avoid problems -> check
Blizzard silent and waiting to the community to just gets tired of complaining -> check
The 1M AP users, they knew about that so far as 3 months and done 0 to bring more servers -> check
Delayed D3 to May15 (when its already done) to force the October APs (the biggest part of the AP) dont call Blizzard and cancel their AP (6 months have passed, D3 represents in various country's about 4 months, D3 delayed to 1,5 month, in the end making only half or 1 month only extra payment) -> check

1 wave being Media and many, very many Players that dont play wow for more than 6 months got in on beta (2 of my friends with dont play since Fev 2011 both got them without even have Opt settings) -> check
its seems that many here will be ok if Blizzard only gave them access on the last day (still on the contract right?) -> check


without more servers, now or the last day the result will be the same, no one will be able to log in (but still got access on the last day), will be nice to see then how the people that defend Blizzard will be ok with that

[Abandon]

"Wouldn't expect" == "made an assumption that they wouldn't".

This is true. If they had done so, it would have been my fault for making unconfirmed assumptions, considering they said they could do it right there in the contract and I agreed.

Almost every one of you has been arguing that the contract is essentially God in this scenario and that assumptions should never be made when a contract is involved, but have now admitted that you've made your own assumption about it.

That is also true. I do not blame other people for the assumptions I make, though. I take personal responsibility for them.

[Chrysia]

"Wouldn't expect" == "made an assumption that they wouldn't".

Almost every one of you has been arguing that the contract is essentially God in this scenario and that assumptions should never be made when a contract is involved, but have now admitted that you've made your own assumption about it.

Actually, you can't demand someone's first-born child. It's an unenforceable contract requirement. I know why the clause exists. The clause exists for the sole purpose of allowing the substitution of similar items if a given item is no longer available. It's like this in nearly all contracts. It's legal precedent.

[potaco]

Well I will go in greater detail for just you then.

When I first saw the offer, I thought "Hmm that looks interesting, I will have to think about it" on the first night.

Then when I finally got around to it, I read through the faq. My biggest concern: Would they want me to pay $180 up front to cover the year, or would my payments be the same? Would there be any additional costs?"

So I did the research. Yes I saw the "Offer subject to change without notice." And I guarantee, if fee's were added in, I'd be on the phone opting out. As it stands the offer is still the same one I signed. It guaranteed me, upon launch of 4.3, a cool mount which I love using on my paladin, a free copy of Diablo 3, which I get the moment it launches. And a Guaranteed Beta Spot when the beta goes live. I knew the beta would probably not be a day 1 invite. But it was still a better chance than if I just opted in and hoped I got in. With Annual Pass, I am guaranteed to definitely be in.

So I signed. It's a good deal for me. I was intending to play the full year anyways.

Except you aren't meant to be able to opt-out... that's kind of the point of the contract.

And besides, you read, understood, and agreed that the terms could be changed, so even if they did, you'd have no legal right to opt-out (you could cancel your credit card or something, but Blizzard could still hold you legally responsible, even if they wouldn't waste the resources to pursue it).

[Frozen Death Knight]

"Wouldn't expect" == "made an assumption that they wouldn't".

Almost every one of you has been arguing that the contract is essentially God in this scenario and that assumptions should never be made when a contract is involved, but have now admitted that you've made your own assumption about it.

You are really trying to fish for points here. Especially when your post was a freaking strawman, to begin with. Providing your first born child... Slavery is illegal, hello?

[Salyavin]

I watched the announcement at Blizzcon. I saw the ad. I bought the AP. At no point was I ever under any impression that it would be instant access. In fact, I always thought it would be after all the major kinks were worked out. Just makes sense to me. My first thought when the beta went live was "I wonder how long before I get my invite?" I in no way expected to be instantly. I saw the same information everyone else did, but I dont understand how anyone thought any different. There was no misleading or misinforming, only misinterpreting. On a side note: Beta looks impressive! Kudos to Blizz for such an awesome promotion!

[KHShadowrunner]

I'm not saying we should all get in at once. But it'd be nice to see a courtesy post on the main WoW site about "how we will be handling beta invites for mists of Pandaria." instead of two-stepping nonsense like "account senority" and "APers get in first".

I'm just curious, has wow, or any site really, ever laid out an entire beta plan on their main page as to the phases, waves, and expected test schedule? Or do they usually just post it out in little spurts every weekend or two.

I don't remember the SOTOR beta, but i'm pretty sure they didn't have a list of weekends pre-laid out indicating what would be tested when, especially for a still-considered closed beta.

[Abandon]

You are really trying to fish for points here. Especially when your post was a freaking strawman, to begin with. Providing your first born child... Slavery is illegal, hello?

Blizzard would get the short end of the stick in that deal with me anyway so I don't think it would matter much

[stumpy]

Except you aren't meant to be able to opt-out... that's kind of the point of the contract.

And besides, you read, understood, and agreed that the terms could be changed, so even if they did, you'd have no legal right to opt-out (you could cancel your credit card or something, but Blizzard could still hold you legally responsible, even if they wouldn't waste the resources to pursue it).

Playing "gotcha" doesn't work as well when you have to rely on stuff that hasn't actually happened to prove your point.

[Orange Joe]

Ok lets see then

Blizzard silent and letting the community give them reasons how to avoid problems -> check
Blizzard silent and waiting to the community to just gets tired of complaining -> check
The 1M AP users, they knew about that so far as 3 months and done 0 to bring more servers -> check
Delayed D3 to May15 (when its already done) to force the October APs (the biggest part of the AP) dont call Blizzard and cancel their AP (6 months have passed, D3 represents in various country's about 4 months, D3 delayed to 1,5 month, in the end making only half or 1 month only extra payment) -> check

1 wave being Media and many, very many Players that dont play wow for more than 6 months got in on beta (2 of my friends with dont play since Fev 2011 both got them without even have Opt settings) -> check
its seems that many here will be ok if Blizzard only gave them access on the last day (still on the contract right?) -> check


without more servers, now or the last day the result will be the same, no one will be able to log in (but still got access on the last day), will be nice to see then how the people that defend Blizzard will be ok with that

Not sure why you bring up D3? Even if the released it today you still have to finish paying. If you stop payment early they remove your access and you no longer have D3. /pass tinfoil

[KHShadowrunner]

Except you aren't meant to be able to opt-out... that's kind of the point of the contract.

And besides, you read, understood, and agreed that the terms could be changed, so even if they did, you'd have no legal right to opt-out (you could cancel your credit card or something, but Blizzard could still hold you legally responsible, even if they wouldn't waste the resources to pursue it).

The fee adding in would be a change of contract, more specifically to the required materials needed in order to fulfill part of the bargain of the contract, which would then require them to speak to you about the matter and offer you the option to back out of the contract due to the change.

[Cybran]

Again, i am not Okay with that, because they used beta access "when it goes live" as a selling point to keep people playing during the 8+ months of DS (which is boring as hell and they were going to lose many subs) to spice up the deal.

Mop is live for 8 days only a selected few are in and having fun in the Jade Forest and Panda starting area. Most of the Ap holders arent getting in soon and are angry about it.

Blizzard is hiding its head in the sand and pretending everything is peachy keen, while everyday passed people get more and more frustrated.

[Orange Joe]

Again, i am not Okay with that, because they used beta access "when it goes live" as a selling point to keep people playing during the 8+ months of DS (which is boring as hell and they were going to lose many subs) to spice up the deal.

Mop is live for 8 days only a selected few are in and having fun in the Jade Forest and Panda starting area. Most of the Ap holders arent getting in soon and are angry about it.

Blizzard is hiding its head in the sand and pretending everything is peachy keen, while everyday passed people get more and more frustrated.

more and more? you mean about 200-300 people? I mean even look in here there are only about 5-6 people complaining over and over.

[Moucalgeon]

I watched the announcement at Blizzcon. I saw the ad. I bought the AP. At no point was I ever under any impression that it would be instant access. In fact, I always thought it would be after all the major kinks were worked out. Just makes sense to me. My first thought when the beta went live was "I wonder how long before I get my invite?" I in no way expected to be instantly. I saw the same information everyone else did, but I dont understand how anyone thought any different. There was no misleading or misinforming, only misinterpreting. On a side note: Beta looks impressive! Kudos to Blizz for such an awesome promotion!

Exactly how I feel

On a side note, only 26 pages to go