New Beta Changes/Nerfs (wtb a beta person, also)

[Nfariessence]

Just look at Shamans when Cata hit and they kept all of their old tools while gaining some new tools, they got nerfed.

Exactly. Just look at Mages when Cata hit and again in MoP. They kept all of their old tools, gained some new ones, then got...

nevermind, there goes that theory.

[ComputerNerd]

They are as the warrior example stated comparable to stances, with meta being equatable to arms and threatening presence equatable to defensive.
They are not meant to be used at the same time as a warrior cannot use two stances, nor can a druid use two forms at the same time.
Though the cooldown does bring a disadvantage the others do not have.

Numbers are not final, but I feel it is moving more towards its official intention now.
As much as I agree with the conclusions of ghostcrawler's post I am not quite convinced it was the original intention.
It was no doubt overtuned, but I still think that was more of an experiment than they seem to want us to believe.

[Brouhaha]

I don't know about you guys, but the question on my mind is if Threatening Presence is a whole new "stance" granted by a glyph, can anyone confirm if it's Demo-spec ONLY, or can Affliction/Destruction warlocks use it?

[Nfariessence]

Numbers are not final, but I feel it is moving more towards its official intention now.
As much as I agree with the conclusions of ghostcrawler's post I am not quite convinced it was the original intention.
It was no doubt overtuned, but I still think that was more of an experiment than they seem to want us to believe.

Finally, we agree on something.

That was what ultimately lead me to cancel my account. It wasn't just the change, it wasn't the constant stream nerfs, it wasn't the glaring inequality between the classes (after all, I >was< leveling a Mage for MoP), and it wasn't even the dashing of skyrocketing hopes for a new breath of fresh air into my class. It was simply the complete and utter dishonesty of the way they handled this.

This is their standard of doing business now, and I'm not willing to settle for it.

[koltara]

waiting for -12% overall damage nerf

[huth]

Oh so we still gains damage reduction from mastery in TP. All is not lost.
How does it scale at lvl85? Is it the same as live, with a 0.5 factor? (Currently on live, I can sustain 4100 mastery rating with a specific gear. Wondering how much reduction that would make).

It's exactly half of what Metamorphosis gets in beta. There's not much point going into more detail than that yet, though.
Also remember that Demo has 13 Mastery base due to Dark Soul.

[Deleted]

It's exactly half of what Metamorphosis gets in beta. There's not much point going into more detail than that yet, though.
Also remember that Demo has 13 Mastery base due to Dark Soul.

Ok so I guess with 4600 mastery rating that would give me something like 45% raw mitigation. If we add the 400% armor bonus (~64% physical damage reduction) that would be a 80% total physical dmg mitigation.
And that's without any cd. Using Dark Soul OR Unending Resolve would grant 90% phys mitigation. 95% with both.
Something's telling me that's still a bit overpowered. At lvl85 at least, I don't know how it scales at lvl90.

[Deleted]

Isn't Soulswap 30 seconds now anyway? Or am I missing something?

[noaim]

You can't use Threatening Presence and Metamorphosis at the same time. I tried, it doesn't work.

There, it's said somewhere :P

Both are demon forms, with different effects. Both are on the same CD. Both are transformations. TP is not a mere buff you can activate in Meta, it's a seperate form.

Kk, thanks for info. Sounds like it could still be some interesting gameplay then. How is your damage in normal/TP form, and your fury regen/usage etc? And since you seem to be on beta, and I dont think anyone answered it in the other thread: does glyph of shadow bolt affect your fury gains, or is it just a cosmetic effect? Cheers in advance for answer, if you have the time to test!

[Brouhaha]

You can't use Threatening Presence and Metamorphosis at the same time. I tried, it doesn't work.

There, it's said somewhere :P

Both are demon forms, with different effects. Both are on the same CD. Both are transformations. TP is not a mere buff you can activate in Meta, it's a seperate form.

Does it require Demonology spec, or can Affliction/Destruction Warlocks get the glyph and access Threatening Presence?

[xskarma]

Glad to hear that Mastery still very much increases (reduces) damage (taken). I was fearfull they were going to shoot down any possibility of doing more than take a few swings from a boss. This way I should still be able to at least fully tank old/low level content. Good

The Soul Swap change would be very unfortunate. It's allready been nerfed, doing it still further to force us to use it with Soul Burn is....vexing. Which also makes me wonder if Soul Swap can be used with Soul Burn if it is on cooldown. I fear not, in which case I will now start lamenting the loss of our ability to multi dot efficiently. >.<

[sugarfree]

I hope they'll look at Destruction, currently the worst tree in the PvP department as I can see.

[huth]

Does it require Demonology spec, or can Affliction/Destruction Warlocks get the glyph and access Threatening Presence?

It requires Demonology. For Affliction and Destruction, the Glyph simply does nothing at all.

[Iffnar]

Glad to hear that Mastery still very much increases (reduces) damage (taken).
The Soul Swap change would be very unfortunate. It's allready been nerfed, doing it still further to force us to use it with Soul Burn is....vexing. Which also makes me wonder if Soul Swap can be used with Soul Burn if it is on cooldown. I fear not, in which case I will now start lamenting the loss of our ability to multi dot efficiently. >.<

I heard that glyphed soul swap currently bypasses the singletarget - condition of Bane of Pain - if its not a bug and soul swap is our only way to have pain ticking on 2 targets then I could understand the 30 seconds cd ... if this is a bug and gets fixed then soul swap will be mostly useless like it is now(2 gcd to transfer 2 dots which would have taken 2 gcd manually) -

[Deleted]

About the glyph of demon hunting, a few changes found on elitist jerks:

They fixed the amount of damage done as a tank
TP and meta are both unique stances and have a mutual 10 second cooldown that activates upon leaving either form.
Auto attack in meta and TP restores demonic fury at a rate of 5 per hit.
Demonic slash in TP has a 4 second cooldown, but you can charge up to 3 at a time
Hand of Gul'Dan now gives demonic fury while in TP or meta, previously it didn't.
Harvest Life now costs demonic fury in addition to mana, so it can't be spammed anymore.
TP has a different skin, which is blue instead of purple.

The 10s mutual cooldown is a big fail, we were supposed to (quoting Ghostcrawler) "be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down", but with this build if we are in meta when the tank dies we'll need to switch and be stuck 10s in caster before activating TP.

[rijn dael]

About the glyph of demon hunting, a few changes found on elitist jerks:

The 10s mutual cooldown is a big fail, we were supposed to (quoting Ghostcrawler) "be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down", but with this build if we are in meta when the tank dies we'll need to switch and be stuck 10s in caster before activating TP.

I might be interpreting it incorrectly, but I read that as CD from cast, not leaving the form.

IE in meta >10sec, Tank dies, TP Form instantly, Tank bressed, 10sec later, can shift back to meta, or immediately drop form for caster dps.

[Nfariessence]

I might be interpreting it incorrectly, but I read that as CD from cast, not leaving the form.

IE in meta >10sec, Tank dies, TP Form instantly, Tank bressed, 10sec later, can shift back to meta, or immediately drop form for caster dps.

No. In Meta form, TP is unavailable. Leave Meta, TP goes on cooldown for 10 seconds. Enter TP form, Meta is unavailable. Leave TP and Meta goes on cooldown for 10 seconds.

If you're in Meta, you won't be doing any 'pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down'. You could (at most) pick it up 13 seconds after tank death.

[Deleted]

Last time I checked the Metamorphosis CD started when you shifted into the form, I might be wrong on that, will check when I get home (in about 8 hours).

But even if we can switch whenever we want, it will be highly situational. If the second one in the aggro list is a melee, chances are he is going to get killed before you can taunt the boss. If there are adds, you can't pick up all of them. Chances are in a progression environment, if you are working on killing a boss for the first time, you are better of resetting and figuring out what went wrong. Even if you manage to get the tank up, offtanking will have used a lot of mana, will have thrown off cooldown rotations etc. So I guess I don't care for that glyph at all. To paraphrase a little: Tank spec or GTFO.

As I pointed out in another Thread, we are not losing the ability to multi-dot just because Bane of Agony is now limited to one target. Shadow Priests currently have 3 DoTs, one of which is limited to one target and they are doing awesome on multi-dotting encounters. The numbers seem to not work out at the moment, but there is still a long way to live so I am still positive that they can fix that. And Soul Swap without the glyph should not have a CD as far as I remember...

[Jessicka]

Without a third dot, soulswap becomes completely useless

For the metank thing... MoP should be specific, " pure "... and now a tanking + melee purpose.... WTFuuuuuu

And Meta now won't scale with haste or very badly... such a great job, as usual.

Wait what? You generate Fury from attacks so more haste means more attacks, and faster Fury generation. I don't think Haste increases the rate at which Fury naturally fades in Meta beyond the faster spamming of attacks that consume it, so it will give you more uptime. It's not like Haste really gives you that much more Meta time now as it is.

[Kittahsmash]

If you're worrying about the specific numbers and trying to plan ahead for MoP this early, you're going to tear your hair out by the time the game actually comes out. Even if the tooltips are right, the numbers will change again. And again. AND again. Just adopt the attitude of looking at the changes being posted, and thinking of them as possibilities for where things COULD go. Not where things ARE going.