State of Affliction in MoP Beta (Grasp & Rotation figured out, for now)

[Brauhm]

I don't mean this to come off as hostile but could you please explain why? I tried Affliction all weekend and found it to be the most terrible thing ever.

Also, would anyone mind just giving me a brief summary of what my rotation is supposed to look like right now? My biggest problem is I cannot possibly maintain Haunt uptime because Nightfall doesn't proc once per 8 seconds. Are we expected to use Drain Soul as part of our standard rotation in order to generate shards, or is there some other shard mechanic I don't know about? Should I be manually refreshing dots rather than using Fel Flame?

I just hit 90 in questing gear on a template toon. I am doing 20-30k dps which is a lot less than I do at 85 on my live warlock..

Haunt is now a dps cool down, its not longer part of the "rotation"

Basically, try opening with a dark soul + soul burned soul swap, placing all three dots on. Then throw up your curse of elements, launch a haunt and then spam MG until you have most of your procs. At this point try re-applying your dots (pandemic passive) to get the extended duration with the bonus damage, and then spam MG until your dots need reapplying. Apply haunt as you have soul shards (you won't have anywhere near close to 100% uptime).

It's pretty much just that (a little more complex when you get into the true mechanics of the spec but this is the easy beginners version).

[ashin]

Does pandemic only work once? Or am I expected / balanced around keeping dark soul haste dots up for the whole fight?

[Count Zero]

I don't mean this to come off as hostile but could you please explain why? I tried Affliction all weekend and found it to be the most terrible thing ever.

Also, would anyone mind just giving me a brief summary of what my rotation is supposed to look like right now? My biggest problem is I cannot possibly maintain Haunt uptime because Nightfall doesn't proc once per 8 seconds. Are we expected to use Drain Soul as part of our standard rotation in order to generate shards, or is there some other shard mechanic I don't know about? Should I be manually refreshing dots rather than using Fel Flame?

I just hit 90 in questing gear on a template toon. I am doing 20-30k dps which is a lot less than I do at 85 on my live warlock..

I dunno, just feels really smooth for me. Maybe a little hectic at times, but only for brief periods, and I think that can be a good thing. It doesn't feel clunky but I'm not going to fall asleep doing it.

Pretty much what I do for my rotation (probably not optimal, just how I do it until iteration is over and it goes live and people dig into theorycrafting even deeper):
Elements, Dark Soul, Soulburn'd Soulswap, Haunt, MG. Keep dots from falling off (manually, not with Fel Flame), keep Haunt up through my initial allotment of shards. After that, whenever I get a Nightfall proc I'll refresh my dots before using Haunt again. When I see I have less than 20 or so seconds left until Dark Soul is ready again, I'll use DS to make sure I'm up to at least 3 shards (I don't go all the way to 4, so as to not waste any Nightfall procs) ... then Dark Soul, refresh dots, and Haunt.

[Brauhm]

Does pandemic only work once? Or am I expected / balanced around keeping dark soul haste dots up for the whole fight?

You don't keep the old dots if I'm not mistaken. How it should work is like you open with your dots and then half way through your dark soul you should reapply them with all your trinkets/weapon/etc proc'ed. That gives you like +50% duration on all dots (1.5 minutes on agony for example) and agony is really where you're going to get your damage from (its the heaviest hitter if I'm not mistaken) and after this you just keep reapplying manually.

So basically the only time Pandemic is a huge dps increase is when you have Dark Soul/trinekts up so you can get the super extended agony with all the haste and the damage for the longest amount of time.

[Veyne]

I don't mean this to come off as hostile but could you please explain why? I tried Affliction all weekend and found it to be the most terrible thing ever.

I couldn't possibly see how anyone could possibly feel like Affliction was clunky at all. I think Affliction on beta has one of the smoothest, most fluid rotations out there. It just... flows. Much, much, much, much, MUCH better than Demonology, to say the least.

[Grizelda]

I couldn't possibly see how anyone could possibly feel like Affliction was clunky at all. I think Affliction on beta has one of the smoothest, most fluid rotations out there. It just... flows. Much, much, much, much, MUCH better than Demonology, to say the least.

The very least.

[ashin]

I couldn't possibly see how anyone could possibly feel like Affliction was clunky at all. I think Affliction on beta has one of the smoothest, most fluid rotations out there. It just... flows. Much, much, much, much, MUCH better than Demonology, to say the least.

Well part of what made it feel clunky to me was that I didn't understand whether I am supposed to maintain 100% haunt uptime or not. I thought I did, so I was drain soul weaving in order to keep enough soul shards.

But as far as if the rotation is fluid, personally I don't find it to be. The dot durations don't line up, although I guess pandemic makes that less important. It just feels like instead of reacting to proc's or opportunities I am just baby sitting icons or timer bars. They simplified Destro sooooooooo much (too much? i think so) that I figured affliction would be streamlined. But it seems more complicated in Mists than it is in Cata.

[Hellfury]

Well part of what made it feel clunky to me was that I didn't understand whether I am supposed to maintain 100% haunt uptime or not. I thought I did, so I was drain soul weaving in order to keep enough soul shards.

But as far as if the rotation is fluid, personally I don't find it to be. The dot durations don't line up, although I guess pandemic makes that less important. It just feels like instead of reacting to proc's or opportunities I am just baby sitting icons or timer bars. They simplified Destro sooooooooo much (too much? i think so) that I figured affliction would be streamlined. But it seems more complicated in Mists than it is in Cata.

Your on PTR right, without the old everlasting passive, yeh at 85 affliction is clunky, at 90 its totaly smoother.

[n0n3]

I'm not happy at all with affliction multi dotting potential, spriests and boomkins dots are way stronger than ours, these two classes will be no 1 on fights like will of the emperor, while locks the pure dps class with dots will be 20-30% under them. I mean what da fuck?
Dunno why is blizzard doing this, i mean a priest or druid can do much more than dpsing, whats the point in bringing a warlock or any pure dps class when u can get a hybrid class who can help with a heal or tranquility once in a while ? People will bring warlocks in raid for that new annoying spell called demonic gateway wich has to be set up after every wipe, not for our dps.
Just look at this will of the emperor 25 heroic log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/ if u dont believe me.

[EvreliaGaming]

I'm not happy at all with affliction multi dotting potential, spriests and boomkins dots are way stronger than ours, these two classes will be no 1 on fights like will of the emperor, while locks the pure dps class with dots will be 20-30% under them. I mean what da fuck?
Dunno why is blizzard doing this, i mean a priest or druid can do much more than dpsing, whats the point in bringing a warlock or any pure dps class when u can get a hybrid class who can help with a heal or tranquility once in a while ? People will bring warlocks in raid for that new annoying spell called demonic gateway wich has to be set up after every wipe, not for our dps.
Just look at this will of the emperor 25 heroic log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/ if u dont believe me.

That's why they call it a beta.

[n0n3]

That's why they call it a beta.

We're a bit over a month away from live and 1-2 weeks away from 5.0 what we see happening on beta is pretty much what we'll get on live aswell. GC said he'll nerf multi dotting to the ground, he nerfed warlocks but he forgot about spriests and boomkins, their dots are strong as always.

[Kaizers]

MW is a good guild but the warlocks in that parse are doing it wrong. Demo with Mannoroths Fury (yes I said it) is extremely potent on that fight and there are some problems with how the affliction warlocks are dpsing. You can be much higher than that.

[xskarma]

MW is a good guild but the warlocks in that parse are doing it wrong. Demo with Mannoroths Fury (yes I said it) is extremely potent on that fight and there are some problems with how the affliction warlocks are dpsing. You can be much higher than that.

Yeah I was wondering what was up with those logs, with Affli doing lots of damage with Harvest life, and Spriests with Mind Sear. Seemed more AoE than multidotting set up. I didn't watch the stream though, so no idea about the tactics or specifics of the fight on HC.

[Xorn]

I'm not happy at all with affliction multi dotting potential, spriests and boomkins dots are way stronger than ours, these two classes will be no 1 on fights like will of the emperor, while locks the pure dps class with dots will be 20-30% under them. I mean what da fuck?
Dunno why is blizzard doing this, i mean a priest or druid can do much more than dpsing, whats the point in bringing a warlock or any pure dps class when u can get a hybrid class who can help with a heal or tranquility once in a while ? People will bring warlocks in raid for that new annoying spell called demonic gateway wich has to be set up after every wipe, not for our dps.
Just look at this will of the emperor 25 heroic log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/ if u dont believe me.

Yes, lock dps is SO far below ALL the other classes that we'll ONLY get brought for our portals.

Stop over reacting. Just because we're not on the very top doesn't make us on the very bottom.

[n0n3]

MW is a good guild but the warlocks in that parse are doing it wrong. Demo with Mannoroths Fury (yes I said it) is extremely potent on that fight and there are some problems with how the affliction warlocks are dpsing. You can be much higher than that.

It's about how much dmg the dots are doing, i'm comparing UA,agony,corr with VT, SW: pain, moonfire, sunfire. I just dont understand why a pure dot class is 20% under these hybrid classes. Can u show me a log of a multi dot fight where the affliction warlocks come close to spriests, moonkins dps ? (preferably with players that know how to play their class)
Some average numbers for dots tick dmg, taken from that log
Warlock
UA - 12964.7
Agony - 9871.4
Corr - 10353.5
Spriest
SW: Pain - 14713.6
VT - 14131.5
DP - 15514.2
Boomkins
Moonfire - 12474.6
Sunfire - 12476.9

[Fallensaint]

Something to keep in mind is that priest DoTs have a 3 second tick period, while Warlock and Boomkin DoTs are at 2 seconds. Also, DP isn't going to effectively be used on multiple targets due to it's orb cost.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about Mind Sear's strong AoE damage, especially when compared to SoC.

[xskarma]

Something to keep in mind is that priest DoTs have a 3 second tick period, while Warlock and Boomkin DoTs are at 2 seconds. Also, DP isn't going to effectively be used on multiple targets due to it's orb cost.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about Mind Sear's strong AoE damage, especially when compared to SoC.

Yeah, but Xelnath allready stated that we'd get a buff to SoC, we just have to wait for the patch to introduce it. I'm not saying it will put us at the same pace as Spriests, but we'll improve, at least.

[Micke]

Yeah, but Xelnath allready stated that we'd get a buff to SoC, we just have to wait for the patch to introduce it. I'm not saying it will put us at the same pace as Spriests, but we'll improve, at least.

I think we got that buff already, it was mind sear that was due for a nerf according to Xel.

[xskarma]

I think we got that buff already, it was mind sear that was due for a nerf according to Xel.

I don't know, but we very well might have. I see SoC tooltips for both 80% SP and 120% SP, and I'm not sure which is the one we have in effect on beta. Then I guess Mind Sear might indeed be in for a nerf. We're not doing too hot then on AoE still, even with these changes. =/

[n0n3]

Personally, I'd be more concerned about Mind Sear's strong AoE damage, especially when compared to SoC.

You're right mind sear its very strong compared to our aoe, it deals dmg every second, our SoC deals dmg once it explodes and and by the time it explodes some targets nearby wich could have gotten hit will be dead.
Hellfire is our only aoe that deals dmg every second and comes close to what mind sear dmg is, ye immolation aura will do more dmg coz it's basically hellfire buffed by meta but our hellfire in caster form is lower than a spriest in caster form and it also damages us , we lose hp and sacrifice our life and we still do less dmg, that doesnt makes sense right ?
Mind sear is "370 to 400 (+ 36.7% of SpellPower) Shadow damage every 1 sec", hellfire is 320 (+ 30% of SpellPower) Fire damage to all nearby enemies every 1 sec.
What i dont undestand is why rain of fire dmg is so low 534 (+ 50% of SpellPower) Fire damage every 2 seconds. shouldn't that be double hellfire dmg 640 (+60% of spellpower) ? since it deals dmg only once every 2 seconds ? Yes u can place multi RoFs now but enemies will only be affected by one of them, if u want it to do 50% more dmg u need to spend ember on FnB immolate before u RoF.
Mind sear requires no preparation whatsoever and every second matters when u aoe, being able to aoe right when those adds pop will give you 100-200k more dmg compared to a class that needs to spend anything more than a gcd to get that aoe going.
In the end if they want our aoe to require preparation and more work they should buff it to do more dmg so that it makes up for the fact that we lost 5 to 15s to prepare it.